Coticule honing methods and questions?

[catherix]

Hi gents. I'm fairly new to the honing world. This will be my first thread in the honing forum.

I have a nice la dressante coticule that I bought from shaverjoe awhile back. As far as I know its fairly fast on slurry and a bit fast on water. But don't quote me on that as I have no real idea and have not honed on anything else. I've honed around 25 edges on it now and with the help of Joe and Alfredo I was able to quickly take my edges from terrible to pretty decent. I've since done a lot of reading and watched a lot of videos trying to absorb any additional information that I can. For the most part I've been using the dilucot method with decent success. However, I rewatched a couple of doc's videos on YouTube that contain my stone and picked up a new method: bevel set on slurry and finished on water(no dilutions). I had to try it myself and it has really blown me away. Very nice edge and I've had some really nice shaves with it. I'm in the middle of completing some tests with this new method and trying to decide if I for sure like it better than the dilucot edge. So in the meantime, I'm wondering about a few things.

1 - First off, how often should I lap my stone? And how do I go about that?
2 - Are there any specific things I can do to pickup some more keen-ness? I could see just a bit sharper being a plus.
3 - What other methods have you used that I should give a try?
4 - What's this "honing on slurry only" business all about?

Any help whatsoever would be incredibly helpful. If there's any info you need from me please let me know.

 

[catherix]

Oh and:

5 - Should I just bite the bullet already and buy myself a JNAT?

 

[gary haywood]

going from slurry to water is not a new method ..this how a lot of guys used coticules with less success...this can work with some coticules and not others...I would always recommend that every one trys it with there new coticule . the biggest problem with slurry is it has a dulling effect as you drag the edge through slurry, there limiting sharpness..diluting and slowly reducing slurry to water gains keenness while stil having cutting action.. water is so slow it doesn't always quite bridge the gap between water and slurry ...You have a nice layer la drassantes are normaly quik slurry slow water not very very slow like most coticules . that's where the unicot method bridges the keenness gap by adding a double bevel as such, have you tried that? I use circles all the way once bevel is set I perform circle process and dilute , I can get very keen smooth edges , but you have to expect some friction with a coticule edge this is what makes them so skin friendly...I think you will find a j nat easier to learn, they don't slurry dull and if you follow doc s simple method on his video I don't think you can fail. I have both coticule and j nat in my honing regime and ilike them both and I have great success with coticule , after 6 years of sticking at it so I should . there are some nice j nats at jns and japaneeseblades at beginners prices and they do very good job I should imagine

 

[Thomas Martin]

You should listen to Gary. He has a lot of knowledge and experience with coticules. Me, I'm not there yet. Coticule honing has been a rather frustrating experience for me. I've had some good results using different methods but I'm not yet able to reproduce them systematically. Synthetics are much more straightforward for me but it's true that cotis can make fine edges.

 

[noahpictures]

1 - First off, how often should I lap my stone? And how do I go about that? Not often.
With a pencil draw lines on the surface then use the slurry stone with water to erase them. Check for evenness. I use a DMT 325 to lap a new coti. After that the slurry stone keeps flat.


2 - Are there any specific things I can do to pickup some more keen-ness? I could see just a bit sharper being a plus.
Finish on water, misty slurry, soapy water, and oil to find your preference.


3 - What other methods have you used that I should give a try? YouTube elliptical method.


4 - What's this "honing on slurry only" business all about? The method works well. That was the first method I used after purchasing my first coticule. The key is very light pressure and not letting the slurry dry.


5. Not yet. Learn your coti then get one.

It's important to pick one method and play around with it then move onto the next method and so on. Keeping track of results is helpful.
Recently I have been stropping on leather after setting the bevel and after finishing an edge with good results.

 

[catherix]

Thanks for all the answers so far! Sounds like there are few things I need to try. I had read somewhere on the forum that one should simply try a method for themselves to see how it works and I just wanted to get an idea of what other methods there might be. That I way I could try them for myself.

Sounds like I shouldn't be lapping the stone any time soon then? It was lapped prior to being shipped to me in the first place. I'll have to look at some of these other methods. I'll post here as I try them. It will likely be a slow process but I'm looking forward to trying some new things.

 

[jpcwon]

Thanks for all the answers so far! Sounds like there are few things I need to try. I had read somewhere on the forum that one should simply try a method for themselves to see how it works and I just wanted to get an idea of what other methods there might be. That I way I could try them for myself.

Yep, try them all (unicot, dilucot, ellipticot, undilucot, etc etc..)...then what you can do is pull a little bit from each method and adapt your own routine(s) using the methods as guidelines. For instance: I commonly do dilucot, but I will use circles/ellipses much like Emmanuel does in his Ellipticot video. I also finish on misty slurry and will occasionally use a piece of tape (ala Unicot)...So the idea is to use the methods to formulate your own. You will quickly figure out what works for you and what doesn't, and you'll come up with a routine that it repeatable...

 

[buca3152]

Im getting pretty good edges on mine. Chosera 1k, bbw and coti. 1 dilution on each side. Edge is very smooth, doesnt have the super sharp that come off synthetics. I like it for a change although it does give me almost a whole pass more for a bbs. Im doing 2-300 circles on each side, thats how long it take to break down the slurry. Im using dmt 600 to raise it. I did a few after the 8k norton with a very light slurry and water. Even tried mineral oil on it. Its a good edge though but I like em sharper. And JPCWONs post on that suehiro gokumyo 20k stone got me thinking... It should be here soon. Just ordered today. Ive been HAD as in honing addiction. Mainamanns posts on it really made me rethink the whole natural/synthetic thing. Ive been working the jnat and am getting somewhere. Its just that i have a feeling the whisker squeegee on that one will take hours. Im glad I have it though and am looking forward to getting that up to speed when I have a little more time.

 

[catherix]

I really need to try a unicot method edge. That's one I've thought about but have not done. I like your idea on finishing on misty slurry. That's one I'm going to try for sure. I find that the water portion of my honing process takes a LONG time.

 

[Thomas Martin]

Just wanted to add that you can use the finishing stage of Unicot after every possible honing procedure. I'm no fan of taping but 30 half strokes on misty slurry followed by 60 X strokes on water with one layer of tape can improve an edge considerably.

 

[catherix]

I'm nor finding anything in elliptical honing on YouTube. Is it essentially using circles instead of back and forth type strokes?

This undilucot method, just refreshing the slurry every time it darkens? Do you still finish on water? I read the thread on artisan shaving and watched Liam's video but the method that should be used for finishing isn't clear to me.

 

[catherix]

Alright, more honing tonight. I'm going to start posting my experiences with my coticule here and hopefully ask you all some questions when they come up for me.

I planned to hone my GD 66 and my Torrey but I only got to the Torrey tonight. I wanted to try this undilucot or honing on slurry only business. So I started by dulling the edge and resetting on a good slurry. Once I had it dialed I then refreshed the slurry with a wet slurry stone. At first I started with some more circles and then went to xstrokes. Did this again on the second refresh. Then 2 more refreshes with xstrokes only. At this time I refreshed again but with a bit of a more diluted slurry. Again xstrokes.
Now I started the finishing steps on water only. I was feeling that things were going painfully slow and the edge was no longer undercutting at about 15 laps in. I was talking with Joe and be reccemended doing one swipe across with the slurry stone to wake up the garnets. I did just this and after a couple strokes the edge was undercutting beautifully. Bunch more strokes and then it was time to go back to water. At Joe's reccomendation I took the stone to the sink and finished under running water. I had read earlier that it was a good idea to go "uphill" against the stream of the water on the stone. So I did just that, moving the stone a bit between each stroke so the blade would go against the water. I was getting some great suction on the stone also right away and things were going swimmingly. I did a ton of strokes with light pressure and the suction increased a good amount. Then a bunch more strokes with really really light pressure to finish up. I spent a lot of time at the sink but I think it will be worth it in the end.

The whole process went incredibly well. I'm trying not to get ahead of myself but I have a feeling that this edge is going to be sweet. I'm going to get it stropped up and shave with it tonight. We'll see how it goes.

 

[catherix]

Well I'm going to have to call this one a success. HHT 3-4 after stropping and the shave was absolutely awesome. 2 passes near BBS and no irritation. The edge is smooth and much more keen than anything else I've done. My best so far by a long shot.

 

[shakin_jake]

Well I'm going to have to call this one a success. HHT 3-4 after stropping and the shave was absolutely awesome

~~~your goal (don't settle for less) should be a solid HHT4 after stopping. Try unicot, you'll get HHT4 after stropping all up and down the edge, guaranteed




Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

 

[Gamma]

If the shave was a success - then the honing was a success.

Congrats!

 

[catherix]

~~~your goal (don't settle for less) should be a solid HHT4 after stopping. Try unicot, you'll get HHT4 after stropping all up and down the edge, guaranteed




Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

That's definitely my goal. I haven't been using HHT much before because I couldn't get it to work well. Thought I would try it again with this one and it worked well. With as nice as this edge is I wonder where my prior edges were.

If the shave was a success - then the honing was a success.

Congrats!

Thanks Gamma! Very nice coming from you. I shaved on it again tonight and it was still very nice.

 

[Gamma]

I don't put much stock in the HHT, but I do put a lot of stock in the FHT.

Good effort - keep it goin'... .

 

[catherix]

I don't put much stock in the HHT, but I do put a lot of stock in the FHT.

Good effort - keep it goin'... .

Ah, the classic FHT of the times of old. Up until now this has really been my only test.

 

[shakin_jake]

That's definitely my goal. I haven't been using HHT much before because I couldn't get it to work well. Thought I would try it again with this one and it worked well.

~~~it takes a while to learn how to do the HHT. Some will get frustrated trying to use it, and give up, claim it's worthless. to me, it's another tool in my arsenal I wont be w/o. About unicot...seriously, give it a whirl, and check using the HHT before shaving with your unicot edge. you will see HHT4



Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

 

[Disburden]

I set a bevel on a 1k stone and then use a watery slurry until i pop arm hairs without pulling. Thats it.

Its been working for me for a few months now.