Coticule for Idiots guide please

[Biltong & Boerewors]

I have been SR shaving for more than a year now and have never had anybody else hone a razor for me. With a lot of help from you guys on the forum and some Youtube videos, I am now proficient in getting reliable results by setting bevels on synthetic stones, then taking it to lightning sharp on balsa strops. Science works!

The thing is.........

OK I will just admit it! I am attracted to coticules, and as part of a lot I bought, I got a small coticule as part of the deal. Its about 5"x 1.5". I am intrigued by it and want to learn more.

I have played with it on some knives, but I have more questions than answers. Before I put my precious babies on them I will have to learn more about it.

Can someone give me an honest answer and tell me if I will be able to achieve a quality edge by using just a coticule?

Whats the purpose of the slate on the back? Do you hone on it, or is it just support for the yellow part?

Do I have it right when I say that the thicker the slurry, the more the stone will cut, but to finish you have to dilute the slurry in stages until it is pure water?

Obviously I will still use the cheap 3k stone I have for the heavy work. I also have a 8k and 12k for final finish if necessary. If I can't get a quality edge on the coticule alone, where would it fit in the progression?

Can someone refer me to a step by step guide that tells me more about it?

 

[Namkcakram]

Googleeither “monocot method” or “dilucot method” and you’ll find the OG coticule site.

For peak performance on the 2 I have, it’s synthetic or natural progression up to about 5k level, then just light pressure laps on the coticule with water or under running water until polished and getting mediocre HHT results. At that point I strop and the HHT results usually jump to Level 4 or so.

I haven’t found any success using Coticules with slurry, but I “grew up” on JNATs with tools so I probably slurry all wrong. To my science brain though slurry with loose garnets would cut very fast and probably leave a somewhat toothed edge. Finishing on water with light pressure ends up being finer than the claimed size of the garnets.

Even with decent technique on water, I don’t generally like shaving off a coticule. Some blades I have seem to love the coticules, but by and large I have better shaves from Arkansas stones or JNATs for the same $$$ or less.

 

[Seveneighth]

Here are the methods I have used:

1) Unicot - set the bevel with slurry on the Coticule. Add tape. One round with hazy slurry. Longer round with water.
2) Dilucot - Set the bevel with milky slurry and dilute / repeat each stage until water.
3) Ellipticot - Same as Dilucot but circles at toe, mid, heel for each stage.

The techniques above are easier if you set the bevel on a synth first but it's not necessary.

4) Finish on Coticule after synths- See Dr Matt videos. Synth to 8k then coticule under running water.
5) Coticule prior to the final finisher. This works well with an oil finisher, like a yellow lake: the coticule softness is retained a little, whilst the finishing stone brightens up the edge.
6) Coticule with oil - as a refresher stone or in an oil progression to finish.


You can find examples of all these techniques on You Tube.

Some things I have found useful.

Unicot is easier than dilucot at first because it removes the need for so much precision around the dilution.

Not all coticules behave the same.

Not all coticules get magnetic in the water stage, most do, the stickiness may differ from stone to stone.

If a stone is not finishing well with water, you can repeat the final dilutes with a little soap or lather add to the slurry / water.

With slurry , Japanese strokes are best. With water, circles and X strokes are best (for most of my stones - some stones behave differently)

Strop before the water stage. (And after of course)

Some stones are easier in the slurry stages, some are easier finishers. You can get an easier result by using two such stones in progression.

I follow @Disburden 's advice:

Pressure to start each stage when the cut changes reduce pressure.
Increase stroke count at each stage (tend to keep the same number of pressure strokes and up the no pressure but it depends on the behaviour of the razor on the stone)




Generally I don't get nearly as sharp an edge finishing on the Coticule as with pastes. The exceptions for a sharper edge are when I use the coticule one step prior to the finisher and also on CERTAIN razors when I use the coticule with oil. This latter example is also dependent on how the razor is honed prior to using the coticule.

These are general rules of thumb that I've come across but every stone is subtly different and so YMMV.

 

[Christian1212]

coticule finish for dummies here you go.

Take razor all the way to 8k synthetic.
Take coticule under running water
Run said razor back and forth on coticule until you think its done.
Le coticule edge

I wouldn't worry about trying to use slurry until you knew what the coticule could do. I also wouldn't really try to hone on the coticule with slurry when it is a smaller sized coticule and you can do all the grunt work on synthetics. Although if you wanted to have fun on the coticule then rock and roll with that slurry

 

[Twelvefret]

I don't know enough to have an opinion, but that's not stopped me from adding an experience. I got the Coticule in December and went through a progression beginning with slurry then diluting until clear. This was after setting the bevel using 3M films from 30-3 micron. Now I just do x strokes under a very small stream, usually 60 x stroke prior to shaving. For me, the Coticule feels different from the Thuringian, but just as effective in shaving.

 

[timwcic]

So your do not go running into the night screaming, Coti’s have there’s place in progression but not all will be a great finisher

 

[kohalajohn]

You can make a coti do everything, but you have to become very good with slurries.

I only used mine as an 8k finisher, with running water and no slurry. It's only 8k sharp, (for me anyway) but that's sharp enough for shaving. And a coti edge is comfortable.

No point then going on to make it sharper on a nani12 or diamond balsa, as you're losing that coti comfort. Just finish and stay there and enjoy what it is. Enjoy the soft comfort.

When I started with straights, I liked the fact that it was not very sharp. It gave me warning before I nicked myself.

As my shaving technique improved, and I became more confident, I wanted to move up from sharp to very sharp, so I stopped using my coti. Also for me, honing is easier on big rectangles than those odd triangles that cotis come in.

Good stones though. Very interesting how different they are.

 

[Earcutter]

None of my coti's give me a keener finish than my Nani 12K or my Black Ark. Back in the day, that didn't matter because the Coti's edge was nice and smooth, and gave me a fine shave. I'd give up keen for smooth all day long. But then I discovered CrOx... and everything changed. I'll use my ark black or my 12K synthetic and then do a couple of laps on the crox and all is well. Keen and smooth. I don't use my coti much anymore - but maybe tonight I'll go swim in the river nostalgia.

 

[SliceOfLife]

5x1.5 (125x40) is very small to try to dilucot on... too small in my book. You'll just be pushing all the slurry off the edge trying to get a decent X-pattern. Just take your razor to 8k and then go to the coticule on water to see what a coticule edge is like. If you want to dilucot I'd say 150x40 is about the minimum size to make it not painful to do.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

My coticule is easy enough. I use my patented Coticule Oil Honing method.

The edge don't seem all that sharp until you shave with them. Comfortable as sin.

Not all coticules are the same.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Gamma]

The slate is to support the yellow Coticule stone. It is not for honing on. As mentioned, 5x1.5" is small for someone learning to dulicot on a Coticule, but it can be done. Can you get a good edge on a Coticule? - depends mostly on your willingness and ability to improve your skills as you go along. Honing on them is very much a craft as well as science; and patience is key. I have improved 12k edges with Coticules, it's not that difficult once you get 'dialed in'. When I started using Cotis, I used to 'finish' on Crox because my sharpness wasn't there. After I got 'dialed in' - I was able to finish on the Coti alone and I put the Crox away. I find that some Coticules finish better on 'trace slurry' than they do on water alone, and others like a 'bit' of pressure more than 'no pressure'...so those are some things to keep in mind while experiementing.

 

[stone and strop]

Just take your razor to 8k and then go to the coticule on water to see what a coticule edge is like.

This.

 

[Biltong & Boerewors]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I watched the video by Dr Matt and it was very informative. I took one of my razors that I thought needed some touching up. Started by killing the edge and set the bevel on 3k. Took it to 8k and then started on the coti under running water.

I did a bit of circles and then started on X strokes. I was waiting for the "sticktion", but it did not happen after about 40 laps. I know what it feels like, I often get it on the 12k Naniwa, the first few times I kept on checking the stone thinking there is something on it, catching the blade. I think the stone is just too small for learning. It's awkward to hold, under running water, and I like my fingers the way they are (without gashes). I tested the topping ability, and it was nowhere near what I would judge as sufficient. I did not try to shave with it.

I haven't given up on it, I just did not have enough time and patience to keep on experimenting.

I will keep my eyes open for a bigger stone at a good price, but knowing myself, I will keep trying with this stone, until I get it right.

 

[Namkcakram]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I watched the video by Dr Matt and it was very informative. I took one of my razors that I thought needed some touching up. Started by killing the edge and set the bevel on 3k. Took it to 8k and then started on the coti under running water.

I did a bit of circles and then started on X strokes. I was waiting for the "sticktion", but it did not happen after about 40 laps. I know what it feels like, I often get it on the 12k Naniwa, the first few times I kept on checking the stone thinking there is something on it, catching the blade. I think the stone is just too small for learning. It's awkward to hold, under running water, and I like my fingers the way they are (without gashes). I tested the topping ability, and it was nowhere near what I would judge as sufficient. I did not try to shave with it.

I haven't given up on it, I just did not have enough time and patience to keep on experimenting.

I will keep my eyes open for a bigger stone at a good price, but knowing myself, I will keep trying with this stone, until I get it right.

You can try a little trick while you’re working out your stone-only technique...

If you have a basic linen strop, hone some under water (vary your lap count based on your stones surface and how hard your blade is), then hit the linen strop for 20ish laps pulled tight and zero pressure, then stone again, strop again...

Finish on the stone with as little pressure as you can manage with good technique, then maybe 12 laps linen and whatever you do on leather and run your edge tests and shave.

You should end up with a sort of artificially improved mostly-coti edge. Eventually you’ll zero in on the right technique and time to hone off the stone, but in the mean time the linen will marrow and smooth the apex of your edge, while the coti works on the bevel faces.

 

[Namkcakram]

Also Cotis in my experience will test lower on HHT or others, but still shave well.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Also Cotis in my experience will test lower on HHT or others, but still shave well.

I have no idea how to accomplish any test other than the fingernail test for the bevel and the shave test, but I agree 100%. Coticule edges shave much better than they seem like they would.

Thanks for all the advice guys...
I will keep my eyes open for a bigger stone at a good price, but knowing myself, I will keep trying with this stone, until I get it right.

This was mentioned earlier. Sticktion under running water might not happen. Personally I don't use running water at all. Mostly I use my patented Coticule Oil Honing method, but if I use water I dilute and end up with just water (but not running water) and sticktion.

Different stones are apparently different. Mine came from Jarrod's Superior Shave. I got it on sale. It's just an ordinary no special vein Superior Shave rectangular stone. A bit smaller than 7x2 inches. I find it to be a great stone.

According to my understanding my stone is fairly fast (builds up swarf fairly fast), but it sharpens very well indeed using oil. I use it for the whole nine yards - everything from bevel setting to finishing - and find it easy enough to use and very effective.

Here I honed my wide Torrey razor, link. This report, another link, is about the shave from that razor.

Here's another coticule honing effort on a couple of razors, link. Here's the shave test for the shorty, link, which came out great, really great.

I tend to jump around a bit to much perhaps - and am currently mostly using a razor most recently honed on the Zulu Grey and also experimenting some with my new Double Convex Ark 8x3 - but I've honed several razors using my Coticule Oil Honing method and been pleased with all of them.

I like to experiment. Sounds like maybe you do too.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Christian1212]

on such a small hone I wouldn't bother doing circle strokes, I think it is easy to make a mistake that way. I would just go up to the 8k again then simple x strokes and give her a shave test. Although as someone else said not all coticules are "finishers"

 

[Ufgoodies]

on such a small hone I wouldn't bother doing circle strokes, I think it is easy to make a mistake that way. I would just go up to the 8k again then simple x strokes and give her a shave test. Although as someone else said not all coticules are "finishers"

Agree with everything here, but since we’re learning I would like to remind you to always strop between finishing stone and shaving

 

[Jakebullet]

A finisher? Definitely.
I might be lucky, I only have one coticule and it’s only 5x1 inch but I finish on mine under running water, and get really beautiful close shaves.
My first few times using it didn’t work so well, but gradually I dialled it in.
It’s now one of my favourite finishers.
After a good stropping I get a great HHT and I occasionally finish on oil which I really like.
Can I improve it even further by taking it to my ark?
Yeah, that ark can improve anything, but I’m more than happy shaving straight off the coti and strop.

 

[sexy beast]

A finisher? Definitely.
I might be lucky, I only have one coticule and it’s only 5x1 inch but I finish on mine under running water, and get really beautiful close shaves.
My first few times using it didn’t work so well, but gradually I dialled it in.
It’s now one of my favourite finishers.
After a good stropping I get a great HHT and I occasionally finish on oil which I really like.
Can I improve it even further by taking it to my ark?
Yeah, that ark can improve anything, but I’m more than happy shaving straight off the coti and strop.

This has been the case with me as well minus the oil part. I use running water and I also use dish soap and water on my larger coti. I find Coti's do very well on Stainless Steel Blades than my Jnats for some odd reason. Jnats are still my personal favorites but a good coti edge is a nice change of pace.