What's new

Convex club.

Well, I agree with Jim that it can be done with few stones. And I admire the elegance of minimalism.

A pair for the lower end being about 400/1200 for repair/bevel. And it can certainly be the stones Jim lists. Myself, it's an atoma 400 plate with an atoma 1200 pad glued to the back. Less cool than real stones, but functional.

Then yes, a convex soft ark glued to the back of a convex black translucent ark. ($115) So I could get by on a desert island with just these two double backed items. And they are self maintaining and will last for many years. And you can use just water if you have to. It's a very "prepper" way to go.

I say that I admire the elegance of minimalism. But not in my out loud voice as my wife would just point to the collection of rocks, plates, balsas, pastes, and lapping plates that are now filling up multiple drawers.

I am happy to report that my honing kit fits nicely into a 12x18 plastic case with a lid. Since I tend to scrutinize the razor auction before purchasing, I have not bought anything that is chipped or cannot be used to shave. My use/need for a low grit stone is little to to none. That said, a 30mu film is equal to 600 grit. I am not currently on the hunt for more straight razors and what I have are performing near shavette.

I could see myself going back on a few razors just to do a film/stone progression to see what's possible. More likely, the stones are going to be used to learn to sharpen my knives.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Ok, well that was another bad idea. It seemed so smart in my mind.

You'll remember that I was going to leave the oil on the stone overnight, to easily do a quick hone with every shave.

I thought keeping the lid on the wooden box would stop dust and grit collecting on the stone.

Wrong. I started the first lap and heard a horrible scritch. I felt and dislodged two separate pieces of grit that somehow got on there. And a hair. What? How was that? Even with the lid on?

Anyway, washed it clean, dried it, added oil and did a quick hone. And left it oily for tomorrow morning. But I'm pretty sure this is a bad idea. Of course this is why nobody else does this. Leaving oil on your stone just sucks in dust and debris from the air, and the debris will scratch your edge.

So I think I'm just back to my Saturday morning routine. Set aside some time, get a big pot of coffee, get everything clean, and enjoy taking care of my week's rotation. Keep my weekday routine simple. Just strop and shave. Save the honing for the weekend when I can pay attention to it.

And the two razors that I have picked out for being maxed out on the ark, I'll still do that. My 1960's fili #14 and my new dovo bismarck. Every Saturday I'll give them a hundred or more laps on the black ark, regardless of whether they saw any use that week. I'll see how far they can keep improving. And if one can improve further than the other.

Certainly, the shave I had this morning was very nice. It was on the dovo that had previously been a diamond balsa edge. I've now moved it over to be the large number of laps on the ark, edge.

Live and learn.

Good information.

Question: If you don't use the razor between honing sessions how will you know when the curve flattens out?
 
Good information.

Question: If you don't use the razor between honing sessions how will you know when the curve flattens out?


I expect I'll use it enough. I want to determine the frequency needed for maintenance. We know that diamond balsa is with every shave. We know that nani12 is once a month. There are variables, but you kinda know generally.

I don't know with these convex black arks. I'm guessing that once the edge is nicely maxed out, it may be monthly.
 
I expect I'll use it enough. I want to determine the frequency needed for maintenance. We know that diamond balsa is with every shave. We know that nani12 is once a month. There are variables, but you kinda know generally.

I don't know with these convex black arks. I'm guessing that once the edge is nicely maxed out, it may be monthly.

Just anecdotal, but not after every shave for me. Sometimes just linen and horse feels sharper. This is based on several days, 5-6 days, where I used a M. Jung razor. SOme evenings I would strop on the diamond and other days just the Illinois strop.
 
Interesting. I believed the daily balsa was absolutely required. That mandatory nature of it was what was turning me off.

You don't find the razor goes backward if you skip a few balsa sessions? How much can you skip?

I always wondered if I could just ignore the balsa for the whole week and then on saturday morning use the .5u, then the .25u then the .1u to get it back in shape for the next week. I'd sure prefer that. What do you think?

It would also mean I could travel with a diamond balsa edge. I'm certainly not going to haul sensitive balsa with me when I travel.
 
Interesting. I believed the daily balsa was absolutely required. That mandatory nature of it was what was turning me off.

You don't find the razor goes backward if you skip a few balsa sessions? How much can you skip?

I always wondered if I could just ignore the balsa for the whole week and then on saturday morning use the .5u, then the .25u then the .1u to get it back in shape for the next week. I'd sure prefer that. What do you think?

It would also mean I could travel with a diamond balsa edge. I'm certainly not going to haul sensitive balsa with me when I travel.

I would just skip a day. When you consider that the diamond is 200k, a slight reduction is not going to be that noticeable. For me it would be as concerning as a three or four day use Artist Club blade.
 
Over at Slash's how to use a pasted balsa strop thread, he just answered my question about that. Evidently you can just shave without balsa monday to friday, and then saturday morning use your .5u, .25u and .1u to bring the razor back again.

Handy to know for travelling. It means I can travel with a Method edge and just leather. Leave the delicate balsa at home.
 
I think that this is one of the things that more experienced honers have tried getting across with little success. "Arcs are very slow" or "after 700 laps on my translucent I got a good edge." There's even the random "A charnley was used on swedish steel more often than arcs because they're just too slow". As in there's question whether or not the Swedish steel would be too hard for an arkansas to finish...efficiently.
Boom!
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
I think that this is one of the things that more experienced honers have tried getting across with little success. "Arcs are very slow" or "after 700 laps on my translucent I got a good edge." There's even the random "A charnley was used on swedish steel more often than arcs because they're just too slow". As in there's question whether or not the Swedish steel would be too hard for an arkansas to finish...efficiently.

On the other hand Jarrod at Superior Shave hones razors for hire. He says all razors leaving his shop are honed on the convexed stones. I believe that means Arks as finishing stones, but I've not actually talked with Jarrod to confirm that belief. I should.

Assuming he finishes only on convexed Arks that still doesn't tell me anything about what Jarrod does before going to the soft or hard sides of his Double Convex Ark. Another question for him?

I have to assume he's in business to make money. I know if I were paying myself the going rate to hone my own razors I'd be making about 10 cents an hour. I doubt any pros are working for that amount.

In other words, there must be a professional level of honing (with Arks included here) which is much more rapid than anything in my experience or anything I'm hearing about here.

[Yes, I know there are stones much faster than the Ark, but we're talking Arks here.]

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
No idea if there is a faster method. But imo I believe the convex hones will come and go. And soon there will be a new latest and greatest. Not knocking anything now. Use what you like.
 
On the other hand Jarrod at Superior Shave hones razors for hire. He says all razors leaving his shop are honed on the convexed stones. I believe that means Arks as finishing stones, but I've not actually talked with Jarrod to confirm that belief. I should.

Assuming he finishes only on convexed Arks that still doesn't tell me anything about what Jarrod does before going to the soft or hard sides of his Double Convex Ark. Another question for him?

I have to assume he's in business to make money. I know if I were paying myself the going rate to hone my own razors I'd be making about 10 cents an hour. I doubt any pros are working for that amount.

In other words, there must be a professional level of honing (with Arks included here) which is much more rapid than anything in my experience or anything I'm hearing about here.

[Yes, I know there are stones much faster than the Ark, but we're talking Arks here.]

Happy shaves,

Jim
I am in no way questioning their finishing ability...I’m just stating that it seems if you can sharpen a razor and get a fabulous edge...and sharpen it more and it improves...maybe people are underestimating the time it takes to actually finish on one of these stones.

They says arcs can take a while to learn...just from reading people’s experiences it seems that maybe one of the reasons is that once people can understand how presssure effects the shave them they can really squeak out the finishing from the stones.
 
It all depends on whether you see slow as good or bad.

An ark is slow the way .1u diamond on balsa is slow and the way a jnat slurry, after much honing and dulling, is slow. They are at the very fine end of things and they remove very little steel. The underlying work has to be done on something else, something fast.

Will convex arks fade away? Yes, they might on the retail level, not because they're not good, I like mine, but because they're too much work to make for the civilian market and Jarrod's the only guy with enough OCD to be doing it. And he's not going to do it forever. He's going to get tendonitis or something.

But we'll always be shaving with them. I mean, whenever you buy a dovo. The manufacturers have the tools to easily make their own convex honing stones, so they do. Ever since Victorian times.

Dovo used convexed coticules in past years, but Dovo has now moved over to use convexed arks.

So every time you buy a Dovo (and likely anything from Solingen or France) your first shaves are off a convex ark.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
It all depends on whether you see slow as good or bad.

An ark is slow the way .1u diamond on balsa is slow and the way a jnat slurry, after much honing and dulling, is slow. They are at the very fine end of things and they remove very little steel. The underlying work has to be done on something else, something fast.

Will convex arks fade away? Yes, they might on the retail level, not because they're not good, I like mine, but because they're too much work to make for the civilian market and Jarrod's the only guy with enough OCD to be doing it. And he's not going to do it forever. He's going to get tendonitis or something.

But we'll always be shaving with them. I mean, whenever you buy a dovo. The manufacturers have the tools to easily make their own convex honing stones, so they do. Ever since Victorian times.

Dovo used convexed coticules in past years, but Dovo has now moved over to use convexed arks.

So every time you buy a Dovo (and likely anything from Solingen or France) your first shaves are off a convex ark.

I wonder which of the German and French razors are and are not honed on the convex stones? Jarrod isn't telling...

I discussed the convex stones with my mechanical engineer friend. He is one of those guys who really knows not just the formal engineering stuff, but also everything (and I mean everything) building related, contracting related, plumbing related, electrically related, etc. He takes it all for granted and doesn't seem to get that not everyone knows what he knows. He also worked for a very long time in a huge facility where millwrights and every other similar trade were well represented, and where spending huge amounts of somebody else's money was the norm so everybody had every fancy, expensive tool they could dream up a possible use for.

He got the convex stone thing right away including the reasons it works on the SR.

My question for him was how to make a stone convexed. Once I gave him the basics of what I want to do (in theory) - convex the top of a stone so the curve everywhere on the top of the stone/hone is like a slice of the top of a basketball x number of feet in diameter - he immediately told me how easy it would be to set up. Easy that is for the right guy with the right tools. I think he said a milling tool. Anyway, the stone would be anchored and a small saw or grinder would start at the top and grind or saw away in small increments and small areas what needed to be removed.

He said it would be a piece of cake for the right machinist with the right machine. Computer run of course.

He also knew about how great Arkansas stones are, etc. Of course.

I would not be surprised if one of the big players, Norton or Dan's maybe, would be in a position to make and market convex stones.

If a market were there demanding these stones it would happen for sure. It's not a big deal except for capital. If there were a market...

No, I am not selling my convexed stones.

Most everything has its price.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
Would be nice, but I don't see someone spending money on a cnc machine for such a small market.

Even within our small market of straight razor shavers, the majority have no interest in convexity. And they're not wrong. Flat arks work fine.

I think this will remain an artisanal thing. I agree with you about the lack of a real market.
 
Continuing more pushing the edge. This mk133 was honed on a jnat, bbs shave last time out. Will be taking it for a spin next shave so I decided that I would see how much the heljestrand steel could be pushed.

Silently slices hair on the treetoping test so we’ll see how the shave goes.
9FFC2E2B-536E-4727-970D-5BCEACADF7E7.jpeg
 
Looking forward to it. Super curious about how far very hard steel can go, on an ark. Pretty far, I would think.
 
Looking forward to it. Super curious about how far very hard steel can go, on an ark. Pretty far, I would think.
I would think so too. I feel like you won’t really be able to feel the difference after a certain point though. That the edge will still be polished with every honing but the shave won’t feel much different. If anything I’m kinda worried the edge might just get too harsh.
 
I'm a bit envious. I don't have a Hjelstrand yet. I suspect swedish steel and a dense black ark are made for each other.

If it is already tree topping silently, you're already doing well. When we get to such microscopic differences, can our faces even sense further improvements?

I've often thought that when we say that a razor has maxed out perhaps what's really going on is that any more changes are too subtle for us to sense.

Which is fine. Comfort with an easy bbs. That's literally as good as it gets. Who cares what an electron microscope thinks?
 
Haha I think as long as you have patience you’ll be able to finish on any stone.

I agree though there’s gotta be a point of diminishing returns on what you can feel.

I plan to keep up this project for a little evoke at least, just to see if there’s a point when smooth turns to harsh.
 
Top Bottom