Controversial view of artisan soaps

[magu2k]

That requires not only a maintained high demand for the product, but a sharp increase in demand. And with the flood of small companies coming along, It's doubtful that many of the companies will keep a consistent returning customer base. Music is not a great comparison. Look at the fashion industry, or automotive industry, housewares, etc and just remember that we have new brands flooding the market, and demand, while high, will not stay high enough to keep all of these companies afloat. Anyways, market direction is not too relevant. As usual, the successful ones will get eaten up by much larger coroprate entities. Then they will "tweak" the product to reduce cost and make manufacturing easier. Quality will suffer. And if this causes the product to fail, it will disappear everywhere but Malaysia and Brazil(Or wherever). The not so successful ones will fade away until they just quit/shut down/sell off because the can't compete.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a world where a lot of brands continue to produce really great quality shaving soap like we are seeing, but there is little left in terms of innovation, and the men who put scent first are a minority. If it weren't the case, nobody would use Edge/Gillette/Store brand gel. Realistically 99.5% of men shave by putting goo on their face that smells like underarm deoderant stick. about 0.4% use soap/real cream. of that 0.4% about 1/3 or less are so concerned about scent that it's the first thing they consider in choosing their soap/cream.

And you think an industry will thrive on that?

 

[les24preludes]

I don't agree with your market analysis since it doesn't apply so well to low capital investment businesses like artisan shaving soaps. These won't get "bought up" because a) they wouldn't want to get bought up and b) how would you buy stock in small unlisted businesses? I believe the artisans will continue as often one-person concerns, or one person plus backup, as long as their soaps sell. We have seen a proliferation of self-employment and small businesses in many countries, developing and developed, and since it's so easy to sell on the Internet there's every reason to believe this trend will continue. Same for single origin coffee beans - another example where there are an increasing number of roasters/artisans. And same degree of variety of stock as we get with soaps. And the music industry too, where new bands can produce CDs and sell them on the Internet for low-budget investment, since once you have the software and basic skills you can sell product. The keynotes here are creativity and independence.

Where do you get all your data? Is this guesswork or can you point us to where the data comes from?

 

[AZBronco]

Man, I can't believe there are some people who agree with me, that the artisan market is way overhyped. I"m not saying bad product or anything, just overhyped. there is some good product and some poor product. But in the end there is nothing new to it, and what people should be most concerned about is what gives the best performance on your face, under the scrutiny of a sharp blade. Scent is secondary and anything else is tertiary.

I expect there will eventually be a folding up of the market, where a number of artisan producers and smaller non-artisan producers will merge or just disappear. It's how the market always works. Competition and market demands will reduce the number, even if demand stays very high.

I just hope we are left with more than a wasteland, devoid of anything but 3 supermarket options. I can just see Martin DeCandre(TM) by P&G fighting for market share from Colgate-Palmolive-Proraso and Wholly Kaw-Unilever. And it makes me cry tears of bay rum.

When I made the original post, I was worried I was going to ruffle some feathers but have been surprised how many people have shared somewhat similar ideas--although I do understand that some people are more sensitive to subtle differences in soaps. I like certain artisans and wish them all the success in the world--but I agree with you that if anyone gets large enough, they will be bought out by a corporation. That day is probably a long way off, and may not ever happen (I have no idea how big/small the market for shaving soap is--but my guess is P&G is happy keeping AoS a niche with high prices).

I really do hope all of these small business owners find wild success and achieve their dreams. In the meantime, I'll keep buying what works for me with the occasional purchase of something new just to mix things up. I think Oleo may be my next artisan to try.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Man, I can't believe there are some people who agree with me, that the artisan market is way overhyped. I"m not saying bad product or anything, just overhyped. there is some good product and some poor product. But in the end there is nothing new to it, and what people should be most concerned about is what gives the best performance on your face, under the scrutiny of a sharp blade. Scent is secondary and anything else is tertiary.

I expect there will eventually be a folding up of the market, where a number of artisan producers and smaller non-artisan producers will merge or just disappear. It's how the market always works. Competition and market demands will reduce the number, even if demand stays very high.

I just hope we are left with more than a wasteland, devoid of anything but 3 supermarket options. I can just see Martin DeCandre(TM) by P&G fighting for market share from Colgate-Palmolive-Proraso and Wholly Kaw-Unilever. And it makes me cry tears of bay rum.

That would not be the outcome I'd chose either. Nor is it the one I foresee, but I don't have a crystal ball either.

For the present we live in the golden age of shaving soaps. I'll celebrate that.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[magu2k]

I don't agree with your market analysis since it doesn't apply so well to low capital investment businesses like artisan shaving soaps. These won't get "bought up" because a) they wouldn't want to get bought up and b) how would you buy stock in small unlisted businesses? I believe the artisans will continue as often one-person concerns, or one person plus backup, as long as their soaps sell. We have seen a proliferation of self-employment and small businesses in many countries, developing and developed, and since it's so easy to sell on the Internet there's every reason to believe this trend will continue. Same for single origin coffee beans - another example where there are an increasing number of roasters/artisans. And same degree of variety of stock as we get with soaps. And the music industry too, where new bands can produce CDs and sell them on the Internet for low-budget investment, since once you have the software and basic skills you can sell product. The keynotes here are creativity and independence.

Where do you get all your data? Is this guesswork or can you point us to where the data comes from?

I did post a link, but just found out the mods removed it. Anyway, as far as I know, there is no peer reviewed, scientific polling data on this subject, but the article I used figured 5% use shaving soap, which, even if so, is only a few million men in America.

 

[les24preludes]

I did post a link, but just found out the mods removed it. Anyway, as far as I know, there is no peer reviewed, scientific polling data on this subject, but the article I used figured 5% use shaving soap, which, even if so, is only a few million men in America.

Thanks for that - very interesting. I guess 5% is to be expected really. I tried to tempt my brother with my best razors and soaps but he preferred his disposables and canned goo. Seems a lot of people just want to get shaving over as fast as possible.

 

[Glaze3]

Artisan not small business is what we are talking about here. Other than maybe PAA all the top artisans have day jobs and the soap thing is just a hobby. I'm sure several have thought "maybe I can quit my job now" but I don't think that's a majority thought. Nobody is getting bought out from making soaps in their kitchen/garage. This surge in artisan shaving soaps is strictly geared toward the freaky (hey, I'm one too) people that frequent shave forums and Facebook groups. 100 to 200 tubs of any particular soap/scent at a time is all this will ever be and that's all we need. I've used all the old school soaps and while there is no problem with them, I'm more or less all artisan 99% of the time.

 

[Phog Allen]

Well this is an interesting discussion. As someone who has been at this for 13 or 14 years now, I have my own notions of what I want and what I think will last. We need to remember this is not really a national fad and thank goodness for that. It is the byproduct of men realising that 1.99 products from the end cap were bollocks and they wanted something better. Many, like me, were also lookng at value since three dollar apiece cartridges were not good. From a shaving or value angle. That was the start.

About the time we all got the 'light on' over our heads about fine old brands, those same brands torpedoed many of their great soaps with rubbish new formulations. That really, led to the new artisans. A desire to make top shelf soaps that equalled or exceeded the old tried and true. And they readliy admitted they were not breaking new ground but re-learning that which was forgotten. So yes, we are now at the apex of this wave and only the truly innovative will be at it long term. No knock on those who do not. I just hope many nice scent combos are either licensed or sold to other makers as some of these brands exit the field.

Formulation is first for me, not scent. Soaps are not identical( in an overall way) to me. So now I buy based on performance first, scent second. Unless a certain scent niche is desired. In my case Trumper Eucris. Average soap, fabulous scent unmimicked by any artisan soap I have sniffed. Or Phil's fabulous Royal Fougere at Bullgoose. It has both parameters covered for me and is a mainstay.

And yes, I think we will see some contraction as we go forward. Some for no other reason than the thrill of it will subside and it becomes just another job or task that is no longer fun. I also believe that limited editions and bespoke products will be the next big step. Upscale packaging and containers, one off scents, etc. These will be pricey. Both to make and to buy. But for guys like me who have tried a lot it may be a way to get what I want. Nearly fifteen years into this and I have yet to see anyone offer a Bois de Violette, Eau de Portugal, Eua de Quinine or Florida Water Soap. And if we are going this far, how about a faceted glass jar with a high polish nickel plated lid? See where I am going? Expensive? Oh my yes. Am I willing? You already know the answer.

 

[Phog Allen]

I also wanted to add something about my last post. I realised it could come off as someone flashing unlimited budget around. A sort of 'I will buy what I want no matter the price'. Honestly, no chance of that. I am a blue collar guy. These sorts of expenditures would clearly fall into the once a year sort of thing. Weddings, retirements. Something special and individual.

 

[musicman1951]

Arko has Stearic Acid as the second ingredient (Potassium Tallowate, Stearic Acid). MdC has it as the first ingredient and doesn't seem to have the Potassium Tallowate at all. I'm not a chemist, but there does seem to be some differences in ingredients. I assume, like everything else, there could be a difference in the quality of ingredients as well.

I generally purchase unscented soaps, so I am obviously only interested in performance. While it's certainly true that you can make a very serviceable lather with any soap, I am amazed anyone would think there is no difference in performance among the choices.

Aside from post shave face feel, the biggest difference I find is in the number of weepers. For whatever reason I get far fewer weepers with some soaps - half as many with MdC. I'm anti-weeper, and even with the second tier soaps I generally go 6 weeks between the nasty things.

Yes, I am fully cognizant of my personal contribution to the weepers - they are always a failure of technique. But I tend to use one soap for months, so I definitely have a reasonable basis for comparison.

 

[pwill112]

You are still cutting with a sharp blade so improvements to soap will marginal no matter what.

 

[nav]

You are still cutting with a sharp blade so improvements to soap will marginal no matter what.

Precisely!

Once I figured out the best razor and blade combo for me, soaps became much more indifferent to me. As long as the soap base is good enough to generate a creamy, hydrated lather...that's plenty good enough.

I could use the latest and greatest soap but use a blade or razor that doesn't work for me and the soap isn't going to help out one little bit.

 

[johnwick]

Precisely!

Once I figured out the best razor and blade combo for me, soaps became much more indifferent to me. As long as the soap base is good enough to generate a creamy, hydrated lather...that's plenty good enough.

I could use the latest and greatest soap but use a blade or razor that doesn't work for me and the soap isn't going to help out one little bit.

I understand your point but I will say I agree with the gentleman above, there are soaps that “save me” from a bad razor/blade combination, poor technique etc. Often, a quality soap makes up for our own shortcomings and/or our choice of equipment.

 

[Hammer'nHank]

I understand your point but I will say I agree with the gentleman above, there are soaps that “save me” from a bad razor/blade combination, poor technique etc. Often, a quality soap makes up for our own shortcomings and/or our choice of equipment.

LOL Then get a decent razor and buy some decent blades and learn how to shave. Sorry but you left yourself open to that one.

p.s. fwiw, you don't buy a soap to make up for poor equipment or poor technique. JAT

 

[johnwick]

LOL Then get a decent razor and buy some decent blades and learn how to shave. Sorry but you left yourself open to that one.

p.s. fwiw, you don't buy a soap to make up for poor equipment or poor technique. JAT

Haha I’m a real mess. I already have my perfect combinations but continue to play with fire, trying out over 30 blades and more than a dozen razors. It defies logic and all conventional wisdom.

 

[Hammer'nHank]

Haha I’m a real mess. I already have my perfect combinations but continue to play with fire, trying out over 30 blades and more than a dozen razors. It defies logic and all conventional wisdom.

I love it, and I, like yourself am / doing / have done the same things. I have no less than (20) flawless razors .. between 2 or 3000 blades yet tonight I was looking to buy another (200) just for something to do. I've quit buying soaps and creams because I've run out of room. The real crazy thing is? There might be 1 or 2 soaps that I don't like.

I've come to the conclusion that there is no logic as to what we do.

Cheers

 

[nav]

I understand your point but I will say I agree with the gentleman above, there are soaps that “save me” from a bad razor/blade combination, poor technique etc. Often, a quality soap makes up for our own shortcomings and/or our choice of equipment.

LOL Then get a decent razor and buy some decent blades and learn how to shave. Sorry but you left yourself open to that one.

p.s. fwiw, you don't buy a soap to make up for poor equipment or poor technique. JAT

Jokes aside, there is truth to this statement.

After a decade of DE shaving, my technique is adapted to my skin and stubble so that's a static factor, not a dynamic one.

I don't need a soap to make up for technique and also, the biggest variables IMO being razor and blade are also static.
I use the progress and Rockwell 6S razors and only Polsilver blades (I have 7,000 of them).

My plain old vegan soaps with no "skin goodies" perform as good as my soaps which are packed full of butters, oils and waxes.

I would say though that there are differences in the process of creating the lather. Some soaps are easier than others but the end result is basically the same.

I'm not saying the choice is a bad thing...it's an enjoyable hobby and I have 120 soaps that I rotate through. I'm just not a believer in such massive differences in soaps, ratings/metrics and the hype.
And if I'm very honest, I'm not a fan of the pricing. I've looked into soap making a few years ago and the raw ingredients in bulk are not so expensive. The labor component is too high but as they say, if there's demand, charge whatever the customer is willing to pay. Fair enough!!

 

[Brian C.]

I have to admit to liking the artisan soaps, and I'm glad they exist. I notice little difference in performance, but I do like being able to choose a different scent. I'm very driven by scent. I also have admiration for the artisans working hard to survive in a crowded market. I like artisan soaps and will continue to order them when something comes along that catches my interest.

This right here is it for me. What I find is that the artisans generally have a larger scent selection. There’s an artisan that I am working their catalog of scents right now and listing reviews. I have 12 of the 16 scents they make. I will eventually purchase the other 4 to try as well. The large selection allows me to pick a scent based on my mood at the time, whether I’m going out with my wife or whether I’m just going to work. The performance of each one has been the same across the board.

I also like scents the linger a little after the shave and are augmented by my choice of AS which has already been narrowed down to one manufacturer.

I also like that they have larger tubs, 8 oz tubs with 6 oz of soap at $2 an oz. Quality products at an excellent price point is a great bonus but also a criteria that influences my spending to a degree. Yes, it will take me longer to need to restock but I have a great variety to keep me happy in the meantime. I used to do a weekly rotation as I didn’t own many soaps. I have gotten bored with soaps and couldn’t wait to finish them. I have even 86’d a couple just because I couldn’t stand to shave another day with them. Now I have more than enough variety to have a daily rotation and help reduce soap boredom.

Now to the market and longevity of artisans, I believe they will always be around in some form. Some may not last long because people just don’t like their products/scents or they just get tired of doing it but artisans will always be a part of any “niche” market. Like others have said, the internet definitely contributes to their viability but also let them see trends. The Artisan I am using now, may not have 16 scents a year from now and I’m fine with that because they will keep the popular ones and let the other ones go to streamline their business. Then they may do like others and have small runs of seasonal scents and limited edition scents and that’s great too. That’s actually a great business model.

My final thought is that I prefer supporting smaller, local businesses and entrepreneurs over large, global conglomerates. I live in a small town and always try to buy local whenever I can even when it’s not necessarily economical to do so. So long live the artisans and I will enjoy the wonderful time I live in with more choices than I will ever be able to experience in my remaining lifetime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[koolkankat]

I have tried a lot of artisan soaps and only 2 that I remember that did not perform: one I could not get to lather no matter how long I loaded the brush and the second made very thin bubbly lather.

Pretty much all the other artisan soaps I have tried lather well and provide at least minimum of slickness for a decent shave. I do think that the newer artisans such as DG, Wholly Kaw, SV and the like are constantly improving their soap formulas to increase the performance of their soaps.

Of course no matter how good a soap performs, if the scent is subpar or just not appealing to me, I won't use it a second time.

 

[Galaktus]

I was bummed when Strop Shoppe closed. I love Mike's Natural and B&M. To me, there's way too many artisans out there to try them all, even a fraction of them. So I have found a handful of artisan soaps I enjoy, and stick with them. I find no satisfaction in endless stockpiling to find the next big thing. I was fortunate to find a few soaps I truly enjoy, and pretty much stick with them. Shaving is a necessary grooming task for me, so I may as well enjoy it versus wondering if I'm going to enjoy my next shave and possibly hating myself for falling for some fanboy hype.