What this is really about is the determination of the networks to cut costs. Leno at 10:00 gave them a way to dump all the writers and performers necessary to put on a conventional drama or comedy. I think that they were willing to lose some viewers because they thought that an increasing profit margin would make up for it. It didn't and like JP said, the affiliates were going to mutiny. So Conan is gone and letterman is back at 11:35. But if the network programmers thought that we'd sit still for an hour at 10:00 every night showing bonobos at the National Zoo grooming one another, they'd put it on.
Conan O' Brien & The Tonight Show
- Thread starter RILEY
- Start date
Since "CoCo" caught on so crazily on the internet, I'm eagerly awaiting the lawsuit...
If anyone wasn't following the show closely enough to get the joke, "CoCo" was something that Tom Hanks called Conan when he was on very early in Conan's Tonight Show lineup, and Conan laughed and told him that if "CoCo" ever caught on, he was going to sue Hanks.
Even if the lawsuit wasn't real, I'd laugh...
Even though I don't "Blame" Leno, you have to see the situation for what it is.
They offered Leno a spot at 10, it flopped.
If he was half as classy as Conan, he would have taken responsibility, a bow, and left for something else.
Instead, he accepts NBC's offer to come back to the Tonight show knowing full well that it completely screws Conan and his staff.
So is he to "blame"? No. But is he doing the right thing? Certainly not.
If anyone wasn't following the show closely enough to get the joke, "CoCo" was something that Tom Hanks called Conan when he was on very early in Conan's Tonight Show lineup, and Conan laughed and told him that if "CoCo" ever caught on, he was going to sue Hanks.
Even if the lawsuit wasn't real, I'd laugh...
Even though I don't "Blame" Leno, you have to see the situation for what it is.
They offered Leno a spot at 10, it flopped.
If he was half as classy as Conan, he would have taken responsibility, a bow, and left for something else.
Instead, he accepts NBC's offer to come back to the Tonight show knowing full well that it completely screws Conan and his staff.
So is he to "blame"? No. But is he doing the right thing? Certainly not.
Last edited:
That's it right there.
I don't know how I missed this gem of a thread! I can't stand Conan and when I heard the announcement that he'd be taking over the Tonight Show I told my wife he wouldn't last 6 months. Well I was wrong he made it into the 7th month.
Now, all laughs aside, I'm sure we'll see Conan elsewhere.
I agree.Neither of them are to blame. The decision to put Conan in Leno's time slot was stupid in the first place and now they are both paying for NBC's bad decisions.
+1 on all of this, Rob.
Of all the late night guys, and I have to get up too early to watch, I like Craig Ferguson the best. I think he's hilarious.
It mostly came down to their contracts. To get rid of Leno would have cost NBC about $150 million. Getting rid of Conan cost NBD about $45 million.
It was tragic for Conan, but it was the economically sensible thing for NBC to do.
Conan stuck up for his staff and deserves enormous props for that. I hope Conan lands a new show and is very successful.
Leno is a good guy, too, and I don't blame him for this. NBC would have had to pay out $150 million to dump him and he would have gone to another network.
One thing I like about Leno is that he still plays the Comedy & Magic Club in Hermosa Beach, California every Sunday night. I've gone to see him several times and he always puts on a good show. He tests out the Monday night monologue on the audience - tune in and you'll hear what went over the best and some fine tuning.
It was tragic for Conan, but it was the economically sensible thing for NBC to do.
Conan stuck up for his staff and deserves enormous props for that. I hope Conan lands a new show and is very successful.
Leno is a good guy, too, and I don't blame him for this. NBC would have had to pay out $150 million to dump him and he would have gone to another network.
One thing I like about Leno is that he still plays the Comedy & Magic Club in Hermosa Beach, California every Sunday night. I've gone to see him several times and he always puts on a good show. He tests out the Monday night monologue on the audience - tune in and you'll hear what went over the best and some fine tuning.
2004
[youtube]PntR41TbYks[/youtube]
2006
[youtube]voCiTdBL8nc[/youtube]
Too bad, I liked Conan and am looking forward to seeing what he does next.
[youtube]PntR41TbYks[/youtube]
2006
[youtube]voCiTdBL8nc[/youtube]
Too bad, I liked Conan and am looking forward to seeing what he does next.
I think that it would be a stroke of programming genius if NBC were to bring back the variety show format. Who says that the ten o'clock prime time slot has to dramas?
The Nid has it exactly right. The costs of producing Leno are so much less than scripted dramas, NBC could make money with the lower overhead even with very reduced audience. But, networks need full cooperation with their affiliate stations. Since Leno's ratings were so low, it was impacting the number of viewers who ended up watching the local news following Leno in a disastrous way. Their affiliates cooperated long enough to give it a full test and saw it was hurting them. When they were ready to revolt and start refusing to carry Leno, the plug was pulled.
That I can tell, the F up was several years back when NBC gambled that they should "retire" Leno from the Tonight Show in 2009 in favor of the younger Conan. When the time came for the transition, Leno was still very popular and they had a real dilemma on their hands. Leno WOULD have been hired by a competitor and killed his old show easily.
Bonobos, huh. They're pretty entertaining.
I'd watch it. I'm tired of all the reality shows.
Apparently the affiliates did, which is why this whole mess got started. They were ready to start showing reruns instead of Leno's show because they were were losing advertising dollars.
I don't know the inside story, but it makes me sad that Leno has been villanized the way he has. To my understanding, the story goes like this:
Several years ago, NBC was concerned that Conan O'Brien would be lured away from the network by a competitor. They must have been worried that they'd lose his late, late night ratings and also worried that he'd be given a show to run at the same time as Leno/Letterman, which would cut into Leno's ratings.
Knowing this, they told Leno that he would have to give up his show to Conan in a few years. They settled on 2009.
2009 rolls along and Leno realizes he doesn't want to retire. He is approached by other networks about the option of having a show "there." NBC, realizing that Leno is still a ratings force, panics and decides to offer Leno the 10:00 show. This, in my opinion, was doomed to fail from the beginning.
Several months go by with this new setup and both Conan and Leno's ratings are bad. Letterman is routinely beating Conan, whereas Leno routinely beat Letterman.
NBC decides to pull the plug on Leno's show and, worried by Conan's ratings, decides to pull the plug on Conan, as well.
This is all blamed on Leno, based upon his past (beating Letterman for the Tonight Show) and the fact that his brand of humor is not popular with intellectuals who typically control the blogs and media. Of course it doesn't help that Letterman is vindictive. Leno is made a scapegoat and takes a thrashing from Conan and Letterman, as his show fizzles.
I said before that I really want to like Jay Leno. I don't find him very funny, but he's always, in public at least, seemed like a genuinely nice guy and, as Letterman has satirized him, "the everyman" type of guy. I have fond memories of watching his show as a young adult.
People have come to Conan's aid. He's definitely been treated poorly by NBC, but the fact of the matter is, Conan's brand of humor was not going to beat Letterman. He had a particular niche (college kids, generally) that allowed him to dominate in his previous time spot. His jokes don't go over well with older people who tune in at 11:35 and go to bed when the show is over. You can't do the masturbating bear at 11:35. Of course, this is partly NBC's fault. I knew well in advance that this wasn't going to work. That Conan could not shoulder Leno's load. I don't understand how NBC could not have foreseen this.
I also don't understand why Leno has been execrated the way he has. They forced him to retire, gave him a show that was doomed to fail and then brought him back, because Conan wasn't working. The only thing he could have done differently was gone to another network instead of taking the 10:00 show, but that would have made him see even more unwilling to give up the throne.
Did anyone see the commercial for The Late Show last night with Letterman, Oprah and Leno? I thought it was great.
Several years ago, NBC was concerned that Conan O'Brien would be lured away from the network by a competitor. They must have been worried that they'd lose his late, late night ratings and also worried that he'd be given a show to run at the same time as Leno/Letterman, which would cut into Leno's ratings.
Knowing this, they told Leno that he would have to give up his show to Conan in a few years. They settled on 2009.
2009 rolls along and Leno realizes he doesn't want to retire. He is approached by other networks about the option of having a show "there." NBC, realizing that Leno is still a ratings force, panics and decides to offer Leno the 10:00 show. This, in my opinion, was doomed to fail from the beginning.
Several months go by with this new setup and both Conan and Leno's ratings are bad. Letterman is routinely beating Conan, whereas Leno routinely beat Letterman.
NBC decides to pull the plug on Leno's show and, worried by Conan's ratings, decides to pull the plug on Conan, as well.
This is all blamed on Leno, based upon his past (beating Letterman for the Tonight Show) and the fact that his brand of humor is not popular with intellectuals who typically control the blogs and media. Of course it doesn't help that Letterman is vindictive. Leno is made a scapegoat and takes a thrashing from Conan and Letterman, as his show fizzles.
I said before that I really want to like Jay Leno. I don't find him very funny, but he's always, in public at least, seemed like a genuinely nice guy and, as Letterman has satirized him, "the everyman" type of guy. I have fond memories of watching his show as a young adult.
People have come to Conan's aid. He's definitely been treated poorly by NBC, but the fact of the matter is, Conan's brand of humor was not going to beat Letterman. He had a particular niche (college kids, generally) that allowed him to dominate in his previous time spot. His jokes don't go over well with older people who tune in at 11:35 and go to bed when the show is over. You can't do the masturbating bear at 11:35. Of course, this is partly NBC's fault. I knew well in advance that this wasn't going to work. That Conan could not shoulder Leno's load. I don't understand how NBC could not have foreseen this.
I also don't understand why Leno has been execrated the way he has. They forced him to retire, gave him a show that was doomed to fail and then brought him back, because Conan wasn't working. The only thing he could have done differently was gone to another network instead of taking the 10:00 show, but that would have made him see even more unwilling to give up the throne.
Did anyone see the commercial for The Late Show last night with Letterman, Oprah and Leno? I thought it was great.
Yes, The LATE SHOW promo was unexpected and a riot.
I think you're likely exactly right about why they opted to install Conan. My guess is his contract was up, and he pushed hard for some sort of pledge to a date when the Tonight Show would be his after serving his time on Late Night.
I only worry so much about Conan given that he got millions to hang it up.
If my employer gave me $30 million to go home I wouldn't let the door hit me in the *** on the way out. But ego takes over at that level and he'll be back.
I think you're likely exactly right about why they opted to install Conan. My guess is his contract was up, and he pushed hard for some sort of pledge to a date when the Tonight Show would be his after serving his time on Late Night.
I only worry so much about Conan given that he got millions to hang it up.
If my employer gave me $30 million to go home I wouldn't let the door hit me in the *** on the way out. But ego takes over at that level and he'll be back.
confidentially, he reeks. He will reek in whatever time slot and whichever format on whichever network that picks him up. Good riddance.
I like Conan. I think he's funnier than Jay Leno, but again, he wasn't going to be successful as The Tonight Show host.
I hate to say this, but I think this is it for him. I don't see what he can do. He could go to another network and run opposite Letterman and Leno, but I think he will be in last place of the three (four? Is Kimmel on at that time?). I think at best he will chip into Letterman's crowd and give Jay Leno a solid hit. I doubt his ego would allow him to go back to late, late night show.
He's a very intelligent guy, so maybe he can figure something out. Unfortunately, I just don't see him as a successful, prime time, late night host.
The commercial from last night:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcEx767TIas[/YOUTUBE]
I hate to say this, but I think this is it for him. I don't see what he can do. He could go to another network and run opposite Letterman and Leno, but I think he will be in last place of the three (four? Is Kimmel on at that time?). I think at best he will chip into Letterman's crowd and give Jay Leno a solid hit. I doubt his ego would allow him to go back to late, late night show.
He's a very intelligent guy, so maybe he can figure something out. Unfortunately, I just don't see him as a successful, prime time, late night host.
The commercial from last night:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcEx767TIas[/YOUTUBE]
Last edited:
Let's not forget the "thrashing" Leno took from every other person/comedian/performer in the business from every channel ranging from Stewart/Colbert's (I guess they are those dastardly intellectuals) to Kimmel's (certainly not any form of intellectual). I think you are also ignoring the fact that this is already the second time Leno has taken the Tonight Show in an underhanded way...denying that is just re-writing history.
That was a cool commercial....can't believe they got that done..........ahh what Letterman is willing to do for comedy.
I don't see any evidence that Leno stole the show. How on earth could he do this? He's not an NBC executive. If he were to walk in and say, "I want the Tonight Show back!" why would NBC agree, particularly when his present show was a flop? People are missing the fact that Conan bombed. He was losing to Letterman, week after week. There was talk for a while that Seinfeld would replace him. This was prior to Jay Leno getting the show back. To the best of my knowledge, there weren't any signs that Conan was gaining on Letterman, either.
I don't like what happened to Conan, but I find it hard to believe that Leno is calling the shots at NBC. I don't know what happened with The Late Shift.
I don't like what happened to Conan, but I find it hard to believe that Leno is calling the shots at NBC. I don't know what happened with The Late Shift.
+1. Leno would have been delighted to leave. He could have jacked more money from ABC, FOX or maybe even a cable network and a lot of his old late night audience would likely have followed him. Ego wise, he would have been thrilled to stick it to NBC if his new show clobbered the Tonight Show. The ratings he was getting in primetime were grim. Those same ratings in late night, or a cable channel are a hit. Putting him on in prime was an ill conceived way to keep him from leaving and potentially save a ton of money on scripted show production costs while still making money. It failed badly across the board.
He may have done some insidious maneuvering in originally getting the Tonight Show, but I think his successs and popularity really carried the day for him here. NBC execs were trying to have their cake and eat it too.
He's cranky, but I still prefer Dave. Seems like a wetshaver type.
Last edited:
Similar threads
