Coffee noob here

[OtterLunacy]

Thanks folks, you have done it yet again. First shaving, then tea, and now coffee. At this rate I'll need to win the lottery to keep financing my addicti--er, hobbies. Yeah, hobbies.

For a while now I've been a little bit curious about the variety of coffee descriptions you fine folks have been going on about, but recent changes at work have given me the incentive to seek stronger mugs of caffeine than my tea can provide.

So far I haven't tried a ton of it, but I have already come to the conclusion that it doesn't have to be that awful, bitter, burnt cup of gross that I tried as a young teen, courtesy of my dad. On a related note, I quickly learned that less-than-fresh dark roasts are not something that I enjoy. I haven't bothered to try a truly fresh dark roast, but I'm fairly confident that I won't miss much by sticking to lighter roasts for now. Peet's Big Bang (a medium roast) is my current favorite, but I still take it with quite a bit of milk and sugar, so I'm on the hunt for something that I can drink black, or at least close to it.

I'm not terribly keen on paying the price for freshly roasted beans, considering how fast one can go through a 12 oz bag. But, as luck would have it, I have access to a Fresh Roast SR500. It may not be the finest roaster on the market, but it is dead simple to operate and free use of it makes for a pretty good deal. I guess this leads to my first real question: what green beans would you folks recommend? I'm not too sure of which flavors I would enjoy yet. My biggest concern would be maximized sweetness and minimized bitterness, since I have a major sweet tooth. I think I would prefer fewer, more distinct notes rather than a complex and delicate blend of flavors. I've already found the single origins to be less irritating to roast (the only blend I've tried so far had some beans just barely turning from yellow to brown at the same time others were just shy of a French roast).

The other thing I wanted to get input on was brewing methods. Given my goal of maximizing sweetness, what would be the preferred brew method? I'm assuming it would be cold brew and/or pour over. Cold brew certainly isn't complicated to make, but it does require a little planning ahead. Pour overs. . . I've tried a generic cone, making do with the regular kettle I have and I wasn't impressed. I know, it's almost certainly user error/inadequate tools. But truthfully, I don't like having to deal with all of the variables in an aeropress, so I don't think a v60 would be something I'd be willing to deal with on a regular basis. Currently, my preferred method is French press. Simple, on-demand, but I end up adding quite a bit to it, which is not ideal in the long run. Plus the fines mean that it doesn't keep for very long, even in a thermos.

Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks to anyone who makes it through half of that mess!

 

[jhadsell1883]

Welcome to the club! I have been through the same journey as you. Finally have found what I enjoy.

Two things
1. Green coffee co-op is my bulk supplier. Brazil Conquista would be a great starting beam for sweet notes.
2. Kalita wave for a balanced/easier pour over. Cleaner cup of coffee since it uses a filter but doesn't require high precision like v60. Flat bottom filters and 3 holes in bottom help with balanced flavor.

Hopefully that gives you some place to start. I have tried almost every option so let me know if you have questions.

 

[Mick]

Do you have a way to grind beans?

Are you limited on space for brewing?

 

[OtterLunacy]

2. Kalita wave for a balanced/easier pour over. Cleaner cup of coffee since it uses a filter but doesn't require high precision like v60. Flat bottom filters and 3 holes in bottom help with balanced flavor.

I've seen the Wave mentioned as a more forgiving alternative to the v60, but it sounded like it still required pretty specific technique for pouring, including a gooseneck kettle. Is that right?

Do you have a way to grind beans?

Are you limited on space for brewing?

I would have brought up grinders in the first post, but I figured that was already a bit too long. Currently I have a blade grinder that I'm not touching and a JavaPresse manual grinder I bought for the initial trial period. The JavaPresse was sufficient for trying stuff out, but it definitely has severe limitations. After quite a bit of hand-wringing I ordered a refurbished Baratza Virtuoso, which is still in the mail. From what I've read it should be very good at all of the non-espresso grinds, and seems to be one of the quieter electric grinders. I'm crossing my fingers hoping that it can actually handle the extreme ends of the grind spectrum (Moka pot/French press) at least as well (preferably better) as the JavaPresse can.

Brewing space isn't the issue so much as storage. There's tons of counter space that I can temporarily use, but (for example) I can't have a huge espresso machine taking up permanent residence on said counter. So basically everything will end up in either a single cabinet or a closet, both of which are already pretty darn full.

 

[Mick]

I would have brought up grinders in the first post, but I figured that was already a bit too long. After quite a bit of hand-wringing I ordered a refurbished Baratza Virtuoso, which is still in the mail. From what I've read it should be very good at all of the non-espresso grinds, and seems to be one of the quieter electric grinders. I'm crossing my fingers hoping that it can actually handle the extreme ends of the grind spectrum (Moka pot/French press) at least as well (preferably better) as the JavaPresse can.

Good choice.

Now all you need is the Escatto to go under it

 

[jhadsell1883]

I've seen the Wave mentioned as a more forgiving alternative to the v60, but it sounded like it still required pretty specific technique for pouring, including a gooseneck kettle. Is that right?

I'd highly recommend a goose neck kettle as it makes any pour over so much easier. I have a bonavita but would also recommend coffee gator as I've been impressed with their gear. I do not have their kettle though.


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[Mick]

I'd highly recommend a goose neck kettle as it makes any pour over so much easier. I have a bonavita but would also recommend coffee gator as I've been impressed with their gear. I do not have their kettle though.


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Saw one at a thrift store yesterday.

1st time one has popped up. Was $5. did not get it.

 

[StillShaving]

Misc thoughts on your questions:

1. With your generic cone (a Melitta V-shaped style) you might want to let the water cool a little off the boil before brewing and experiment with grind sizes and brewing time.
2. Everything I have read about the Kalita Wave indicates it is a good and forgiving brewer, but I have not gotten one because of the filter shape. It looks non-trivial to fold the widely available autodrip or melitta cone filters to fit while waiting to order more filters.
3. You may like cold brew but based on what you said I doubt it will be your favorite. As the flavor profile is not very broad.
4. It sounds like you want a nice auto-drip machine, to get a clean cup without too many variables. Certainly a good choice if time is a concern.
   
5. Your French Press comment "end up adding quite a bit to it" was not very clear but I assume this is referring to using more cream/sugar (adding calories and an extra step) that you would like. Once you find a coffee/roast you like that may improve.
   
6. As for green coffees I would suggest a Central or South American, maybe a Brazilian or Colombian. But of course you should experiment from all over the world and don't let any one great or bad experience lead you to think that all coffee from that region is the same, as there can be a lot of differences between farms and how the coffee was processed.
7. I read your concern about the Aeropress but if you have one I would definitely recommend trying some of the common "recipes" perhaps focusing on some of most basic ones. Of the methods you mentioned it may be the best to maximize the sweetness and minimize bitterness and fines.
   
8. Otherwise I think you should skip all this and go for an espresso machine (Americano), as I think you will find it the best. I find espresso brewing is the best way to bring out the natural sweetness in the coffee.

 

[OtterLunacy]

@Mick does Baratza still make that attachment? I didn't see anything like it on their website.

@jhadsell1883 Thanks for the suggestion. For some reason I'm feeling very reluctant to pick up a second kettle. Logically, it makes sense--my electric kettle is more than sufficient for most tasks, but precise pouring with it is a little like using a chainsaw for detailed woodcarving. Do you have any idea why all of the decent goose necks have a 1-1.2 L capacity? I'm having trouble imagining a time when I would need more than 0.5 L in one go, and weird as it may be I'd have an easier time pulling the trigger if (for example) the coffee gator came in a 0.75 L for ~75-80% of the price.

@StillShaving Thanks for the lengthy reply!
1) I assumed from day one that coffee brewing shouldn't happen with boiling water. On closer inspection, the cone is indeed a true Melitta, but it won't be seeing much use for hot beverages until sometime after my "new" grinder arrives. Actually, if I'm honest, it won't be getting much use until I get a goose neck kettle.
2) Thanks for the warning about the filters, though it isn't a deal-breaker for me.
4) I suppose I'm being weird and snobbish, but I really can't get interested in the auto-drip machines.
5) Yes, you assume correctly. I'm hoping that the grinder and evolving technique will also help reduce the milk/sweetener I use.
6) Thanks for the suggestions. I'm curious about Ethiopians, for example, because I keep hearing about them and how they tend to be totally different from "normal" coffee. I think it would also be interesting to try beans from the same plantation that have been processed in different ways.
8) Could you possibly expand on this? This is the first time I've heard anything like that about espresso. I've never actually tried it (aside from a latte or two at some point over the years) but I usually hear it described as "bittersweet," among other things. I'll admit that this brief comment of yours sent me on a short frenzy of looking up espresso drinks and comparing machines. I suppose I should start looking for a local coffee shop that has decent espresso before I go too crazy.

 

[Mick]

@Mick does Baratza still make that attachment? I didn't see anything like it on their website.

Maybe they no longer do.

It's been a number of years since I had one. Bought it directly from them and traded it back to them along with a Virtuoso when they came out with the Forte BG.

Worked really well.

 

[jhadsell1883]

I always put off upgrading my equipment but grinder was my best upgrade for espresso and kettle was when I started doing pour overs. Went through lots of issues that ended up being due to those items before upgrading. Seemed like an we say choice after I found how much better/easier each item made my setup.


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[Danmarx]

Re: grinders, you're better off having it ground for you than using a blade grinder. You need a burr grinder of at least the quality of the ones Capresso makes. Conical Burr Grinder Infinity Capresso Obviously nothing you do will matter if you don't start with good beans.

I used to roast my own, but it is a real art to get the roast right, especially if you like something like Kenya that has a narrow roasting window. I've used just about every brewing method there is, including vacuum pots. The best, for me, is the $30 Aeropress. AeroPress - Official Store, Replacement Parts and AeroPress Recipes

For me, and my guests, part of the secret is brewing at a lower temperature than the 'experts' recommend. I brew somewhere around 160 to 175 F... maybe even lower. After brewing, you can use hotter water if you're making an Americano. You will need to use more coffee when brewing at lower temps. But if you prefer flavor over caffein and bitterness, it's worth it.

 

[StillShaving]

Regarding your comment about kettles:
I suspect the majority of the cost of an electric kettle is in the electronics (baseplate, temperature probe, UL certification, etc) and that the larger size likely sells at a higher volume. I got a no-name "Gooseneck Coffee Drip Kettle Pour Over Hand Pot Stainless Steel Tea Maker 650ml" from ebay a couple of years ago for about $10 (I see they are a little more expensive now) and it even worked on an induction plate. It worked well enough for single cup pour-overs but I would be uncomfortable if that was my only kettle since it would limit the amount of coffee that could be brewed on every occasion, especially since some hot water is spent to rinse the filter and preheat the cup.

Regarding your follow up question about espresso:
Espresso can be bitter if not properly extracted, but in general I find it makes a better tasting and more flavorful cup of coffee. Where the sweetness is also enhanced. This is in part why I suggested the Central/South American origin coffees where I most often see descriptions of green beans as having flavor profile which includes molasses, honeysuckle, melon, etc. (Others may have different experiences or opinions about their roasted coffee). I have made some cups of Americano from these coffees where I was very impressed with the level of sweetness in the cup, almost as if a lump of sugar had been added except that it tasted better.

I am not a wine connoisseur and maybe you are not either, but a rough analogy is imagine a glass of everyday table red wine that tastes quite good (this would be like a good drip/pourover coffee) and compare that to a "better" tasting bottle of wine with more complexity that you drink with your special steak dinner (a good Americano in this comparison). Where you might better enjoy the more basic coffee with your breakfast meal but when looking for a cup to enjoy all by itself prefer the espresso. Of course that is just my opinion, but given the cost of espresso grinders and brewers there must be others who find the resulting coffee worth the cost, who are not just buying those machines for their ability to make a latte. Personally I like a variety of brew methods but believe that espresso brewing extracts more of the sweeter caramel flavors due to the higher pressure.

That is also why I suggested you stick with the Aeropress if you already owned one. While it is not espresso, there is some pressure which I do believe helps improve the extraction.

 

[Danmarx]

My favorite kettle was an old, iron, enameled one that heated up quickly on an induction burner. But when its enamel finally started to flake off I went with this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072DWYBL7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 It's worked well and the price is right.

 

[OtterLunacy]

@StillShaving I ended up holding off on the kettle purchase and bought a Kalita Wave 155 that is still in the snail mail. Oddly, Amazon has the 185 available with two day shipping but the 155 is from a 3rd party and will take at least 2 weeks to get here. Best part? Even the 155 filters have two day shipping.

You've definitely caught my interest with your description of espresso. Sadly, I can't afford to drop $500+ on starting equipment. Is the difference between pressurized and unpressurized portafilters as big as I think it is? (flavor-wise; I understand the technical difference)

In other news, today I had my best moka pot brew yet! In all of my previous attempts it has come out smelling and tasting fairly burnt, and even making it into a sweet latte didn't do much to cover that up. Today, I only got a fraction of the burnt flavor, and that might simply be from the Lavazza that I was using; even moderately dark roasts just aren't appealing to me. Before anyone says anything, I've tried the directions from the box and a number of mainstream suggestions, such as starting with preheated water. This time, I tried something a random guy on reddit mentioned, which is to fill the coffee basket only ~75% of the way to the top, instead of perfectly leveled. Sure enough, it worked! Now that I know how to avoid burning it I'm excited to try the "good stuff" in the pot tomorrow, which will unfortunately require a fair amount of elbow grease since UPS tracking is telling me the Virtuoso is running a week late.

To give you an idea, my JavaPresse grinds about 4 grams per minute. . . For French press. . . When I'm going as fast as I possibly can. So 18-20 grams of Moka grind is a bit of a commitment. Now you can see why I went with a Virtuoso over something like a Lido.

 

[Mick]

You can read my old post on espresso machines for details about the different types Tell us about your espresso machine

.

 

[StillShaving]

As for espresso equipment you could pick up a Rok brewer and a higher end hand grinder such as one from Orphan Espresso for around $350-400. But I understand you are not looking for manual grinder or manual brewing. Though I will say it takes less than a minute to grind for making a shot. Such a combo is more difficult to dial in but can deliver on a budget, especially you are feeding it fresh coffee that you are home roasting.

I have never used a pressurized portafilter but I can see their value beyond being able to use store bought coffee (I can't really see using prepacked-ground-at-the-factory coffee giving good results). A benefit in that tamping is a critical step and the most difficult to execute the same each time.

I think you are on the right track to take a little more slowly. With a new grinder, moka pot, french press, and filtered pour-over you have most of the bases covered and can enjoy your coffee brewed in different ways as you experiment roasting coffees from different places.