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Clearing a false edge

Hello all. It seems that regardless of the care I take to prevent the formation of artifacts that extend just beyond the apex they still appear. Even keeping a light touch and a low lap count only goes so far. I’ve had good luck removing small foil edges by laying some 1uF lapping film on the edge of my palm and doing around 4 spine leading strokes and it seems to clear the tiny burr that seems to always remain. Just curious if anyone else is running into this and what your solution is. Thanks.
Devan J.
 
You should not have a visible fin or anything beyond the apex from honing if you are doing things correctly.
I assume you are over honing or using too much pressure.
There is NEVER a need to create a burr with a razor.
You may want to go into further detail about how you are honing and what you are using to get any viable feedback.
 
You should not have a visible fin or anything beyond the apex from honing if you are doing things correctly.
I assume you are over honing or using too much pressure.
There is NEVER a need to create a burr with a razor.
You may want to go into further detail about how you are honing and what you are using to get any viable feedback.
Once I’m done at 5k I use around 10 strokes at 8k with zero pressure. Small little artifacts are almost always present regardless of zero pressure and an extremely low lap count even when using slurry on a natural stone. The lapping film removes in like 2-4 strokes so it’s just barely hanging on the apex.
 
Try stropping before the last finish strokes. Or vigorous linen stroppiny should get rid of it.
Yeah I suppose this is something that stropping should really be able to get rid of. Always struck me as odd to see these little micro artifacts to begin with though. Thanks
 
You keep using the term "artifacts" is it just microscopic debris?
If you are viewing through a microscope you should palm strop for 5-10 strokes to clean the blade for viewing.
I never finish a blade with slurry although some do.
Given the strokes you mention it is just microscopic debris so if palm stropping does not remove it then the problem is too much on your lower stones.
 
You keep using the term "artifacts" is it just microscopic debris?
If you are viewing through a microscope you should palm strop for 5-10 strokes to clean the blade for viewing.
I never finish a blade with slurry although some do.
Given the strokes you mention it is just microscopic debris so if palm stropping does not remove it then the problem is too much on your lower stones.
Yes much of the tiny little extensions manage to hang on post palm stropping but come off easily on film. Now my lower grit treatment usually consists of working with X strokes with moderate to light pressure. I’ll clear the 5k periodically and stop when the loading is very light and I have good undercut. Hope this provides some clarity.
 
You should not be getting that.
Always use light pressure unless you are trying to remove material quickly.
I generally hone with the same pressure all the way through. Light.
I hear some say just the weight of the blade - but then you are almost holding the blade up from contact. Enough pressure to ensure good contact, that is all.
Try palm stropping for 10. If you cannot clear the edge you have a honing problem, again, pressure most likely as you have said you do little strokes and end up with the same problem.
 
You should not be getting that.
Always use light pressure unless you are trying to remove material quickly.
I generally hone with the same pressure all the way through. Light.
I hear some say just the weight of the blade - but then you are almost holding the blade up from contact. Enough pressure to ensure good contact, that is all.
Try palm stropping for 10. If you cannot clear the edge you have a honing problem, again, pressure most likely as you have said you do little strokes and end up with the same problem.
I don’t think I use that much pressure. But pressure is such a subjective sensation that it’s possible that there’s still room for me to reduce it a bit more especially at the earlier grits. I would post pics if I could but I don’t have a way to do that right now
 
Its really the only thing that makes sense.
Keep your stones clean and use water only.
I know this sort of thing is hard to get sorted out without having someone beside you looking at the same issue. If there is anyone that can hone near you they might be able to help you out. Patients and practice will sort this out.
Picture sometimes help but unless they are very good it may not. Describing best you can and input from others will hopefully get you past this hump.
 
Yeah I feel like I’m like 97% good because the bevel looks very pristine & true after just a few passes on film. But I shouldn’t be dependent on film to clear the edge every single time. My hone setup is a 1k Chosera, 3k, 5k, & 8k super stones primarily but I have a few other synthetic options and a handful of naturals as well.
 
The linen strop should clear this up. If it doesn't then you need to make some adjustment to your process. Whether that's in pressure or what have you.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
False edges etc are caused by one or more of three things; too much pressure, too much time/too many strokes on one side of the blade, and aggressive stones. You can usually hone them off with super light pressure and flipping the blade each stroke. Try using a shorter stroke too.

Cheers, Steve
 

kelbro

Alfred Spatchcock
One razor or all of them? If one, what's the history of the razor? My only razor that would create a burr like that had been 'over-polished' by a previous owner.
 
Yeah it’s one blade in particular. It’s an unknown Solingen blade. If I follow my 8k work with a few strokes on film it actually shaves quite well and the bevel looks flawless. Maybe the steel on this blade just works well with this process. The next best result seems to be 8k followed by time spent with a good tomo to make the apex nice and uniform. But the shave from the brief work on film is a touch sharper and smoother surprisingly.
Steve also suggested a few things I’d like to try out at the next Honing session just to see if there’s any difference.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
A good stropping after setting the bevel is one way, certainly. Lots of very very light pressure laps on the bevel setter after you have the bevel set also works. After setting the bevel, you should be using pretty light pressure, and getting even lighter as you approach the finish. It is seriously hard to create a fin edge if pressure is light enough. Nevertheless, sometimes stuff happens. a half dozen pull strokes on each side is good for stripping off the little jagglies. Lay the razor on the hone as usual but instead of stroking it toward you or away from you, pull it straight across toward the side. About 3/4" or so of travel. Flip and do it to the other side. Half dozen or so per side, then a half dozen or a dozen extremely light regular laps to peak the apex back up, and you got it. I always do this after the final grit of film, usually 1u, and also on the balsa at the .1u stage. Makes for a sweet edge, yeah. And looking at it under the microscope shows no more "apex lice" clinging there, if I had any in the first place.

You will pretty much never have this condition after a dilucot session, BTW. Maybe occasionally but it would be pretty rare. So there is a case for using a coticule for the mid range work, even if you finish on synthetic stones or lapping film. Just sayin. I don't mess with coticules anymore, myself.
 
Some steels are much more prone to this also - especially certain stainless steels. From your original wording it sounded like this happened frequently on all different razors. If it's just one in particular it could well just be an issue with the steel or its hardness.
 
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