Clash of the Titans: Brit Crat #21 vs #66

[Kennyg2019]

Just got my long-awaited 3rd Gen Gillette Aristocrat (Made in England) FB (Set #21)...and it beat my 4th Gen Diamond Bottom (Set #66)...both in terms of smoothness and efficiency! Total surprise...as I thought nothing could be smoother than the 4th Gen. I will confirm my findings over the next few days with my other top blades (Feather and Polsilver). Wow...just wow! No offense to my fellow Americans , but the British rule the Gillette vintage world!

 

[Hannah's Dad]

Just got my long-awaited 3rd Gen Gillette Aristocrat (Made in England) FB (Set #21)...and it beat my 4th Gen Diamond Bottom (Set #66)...both in terms of smoothness and efficiency! Total surprise...as I thought nothing could be smoother than the 4th Gen. I will confirm my findings over the next few days with my other top blades (Feather and Polsilver). Wow...just wow! No offense to my fellow Americans , but the British rule the Gillette vintage world!

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Interesting conclusion. The Second Gen (your #21) is quite often described as the most efficient of the bunch, and rarely do users find it the smoothest. I loved my time with the Second Gen — glad to hear you’re loving it, too.

Beautiful razors!

 

[Kennyg2019]

Interesting conclusion. The Second Gen (your #21) is quite often described as the most efficient of the bunch, and rarely do users find it the smoothest. I loved my time with the Second Gen — glad to hear you’re loving it, too.

Beautiful razors!

My apologies...I thought the #21 was 3rd Gen! Yes...well, I may have been mistaken. I will try a couple more head-to-head shaves this week with other blades to confirm!

 

[Hannah's Dad]

My apologies...I thought the #21 was 3rd Gen! Yes...well, I may have been mistaken. I will try a couple more head-to-head shaves this week with other blades to confirm!

The 3rd Gen has the rocket-style handle (like the 4th Gen) but has the solid baseplate instead of the triangle stamped plate. Yours has the crimped-style handle like the 1st Gen does but in the safety bar version.

 

[Kennyg2019]

Ok..I think Definitely has the solid base plate.
I think the only Crat I still need to try is the #16.
These Brit Crats are definite RAD killers so far as vintage DE's go!
I see a den cleaning in the not-too-distant future!

 

[mr-razor]

The 3rd Gen has the rocket-style handle (like the 4th Gen) but has the solid baseplate instead of the triangle stamped plate. Yours has the crimped-style handle like the 1st Gen does but in the safety bar version.

 

[Northstonehill]

Wonderful story - and so great to see another man fall by the magnificent sword of the British Aristocrats. They are the epitome of vintage razoring, at least to this shaver

I found the 2nd generation razor to be the least smooth of them all, so very interesting conclusion you make. YMMV as always!

Like Achim shows there were basically only 4 different razors (well, 4.5…). If you’re interested I’ve tried here to put some background to the “whole numbers and set confusion”:

As we only have few sources for the historical background, and as Gillette notoriously mixed things up all the time, the official story of the British Aristocrats is blurred. But I believe the following is the agreed story with the cognoscenti today, based on the few sources we have (original paper advertisments and such).

The razors themselves only came in basically 4 different models/generations over the model line’s timespan of 30 years. The set #’s refer thus to the matched sets, i.e. a certain razor marketed with a certain case.

So if no case then the razor technically can’t have a # (as the same razor often came in different # sets, and the same set number could hold various generations of razors). Set numbers were typically printed on the end of the shippers, but did not figure (obviously) on the cases themselves. And because most shippers tend to have been lost by now, this is an added reason for the confusion today unless we have an original paper advertisement listing the number.

In total at least 20 different Aristocrats sets were made, but with more subbtle differences also, such as cases with different interior colors, different generation razors etc. But still, as said in total only four different generation razors were made:

• 1st generation razor: Made in the mid-late 1930s. The razor didn’t really change during production except that early ones (1936) had non-winged centerbars. This early model sometimes called the “Pre-#15”), came silver plated, and also had a bit of different inner mechanics (longer door rod). Later (1938) the centerbar was changed to having small “wings” and the razor was rhodium plated (a gold razor in the #19 set, though). Early ones had patent no 400.621 on baseplate, later ones with 430.030 on baseplate. Some with engravings on the handle, some not (model year variations?). Distinguishing feature: The only open comb of the 4 family generations, and with a thicker handle than the same-era Gillette Popular.
• 2nd generation razor: Made in the late 1940s: solid bar, baseplate 430.030. Came in rhodium and possibly gold. Distinguishing feature: Two broad non-knurled bands at each end of the handle (above the TTO knob).
• 3rd generation razor: Made in the late 1940s/early 1950s, solid bar, baseplate 430.030, rhodium or gold plating. Distinguishing feature: The heaviest razor of the generations at 82 grams, 5-10 grams heavier than the others.
• 4th generation razor: Made in the 1950s (1953-58/59ish), solid bar, rhodium or gold plating. Distinguishing feature: diamond pressed baseplate; actually the same head as on the same-era Gillette Rockets.

Hope this helps

If you’re interested in reading more about this IMHO the most wonderful Gillette model line I wrote this piece a while back here on B&B:
23 different British Gillette Aristocrat sets - a partial historic overview and my collector’s journey (pics galore) - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/23-different-british-gillette-aristocrat-sets-a-partial-historic-overview-and-my-collectors-journey-pics-galore.599541/#post-11025584

Enjoy your journey, my friend!

 

[Kennyg2019]

Thanks, Mr Razor! Your picture confirms what Hannah's Dad said...I have a 2nd Gen, not a 3rd!

Now, if you'll alert me of any 3rd Gen (like from a #16), I will have the Brit Crat Triumverate!

 

[Kennyg2019]

Enjoy your journey, my friend!

Thanks for the info! And the well-wishes!
I must be the odd-man-out preferring the smoothness #21...but I will confirm in upcoming shaves. I will probably start with another Astra SP (to make sure I didn't have a bad blade) then switch immediately to a Polsilver.

 

[BigJ]

Great thread!! Simply EXCELLENT PIF!!

I‘m in!!

 

[Kennyg2019]

Just received some King C Gillette blades! Maybe I will try them first

 

[Kennyg2019]

Great thread!! Simply EXCELLENT PIF!!

I‘m in!!

Me too

 

[CaerMooman]

I am still waiting to pick up a first generation Brit Crat .. the prices are quite silly at the moment.

I have a 2nd Gen and two 3rd Gen Brit Crats .. I can`t seem to make a call between either of them for smoothness and efficiency.

I`d be interested to know if the flat base plate 1949 Aristocrat jr shared the same head as either the 2nd or 3rd Gen Crats, because it was slap bang in the transition period of those two.
The Aristocrat jr, for me, is smoother and more efficient than the 2nd & 3rd Gens .. not sure if it down to the weight/balance of the Jr .. or if I just imagine it to be so; but finding and owning a rhodium plated Gillette jr is my goal ..

 

[Medivh]

I am still waiting to pick up a first generation Brit Crat .. the prices are quite silly at the moment.

I have a 2nd Gen and two 3rd Gen Brit Crats .. I can`t seem to make a call between either of them for smoothness and efficiency.

I`d be interested to know if the flat base plate 1949 Aristocrat jr shared the same head as either the 2nd or 3rd Gen Crats, because it was slap bang in the transition period of those two.
The Aristocrat jr, for me, is smoother and more efficient than the 2nd & 3rd Gens .. not sure if it down to the weight/balance of the Jr .. or if I just imagine it to be so; but finding and owning a rhodium plated Gillette jr is my goal ..

I was looking for one as well but after seeing quite a few going for more than 400$, I gave up. The problem with the first and second gen British Aristocrat is that more of them have misalignment problems since those models lack end caps and while that can be fixed, those repairs are not very cheap and if you already paid a lot for the razor, well you get the idea.

While I like the way the first gen looks and find it a nice razor to have in my collection, I highly doubt that the shaving experience is worth paying $400+. I can think of many modern razors at that price range and even below that would shave much better. Besides, how many people do you see using such razors every day rather than having them in their dusty collection?

 

[Northstonehill]

I highly doubt that the shaving experience is worth paying $400+. I can think of many modern razors at that price range and even below that would shave much better. Besides, how many people do you see using such razors every day rather than having them in their dusty collection?

I use a 1st gen as part of my regular rotation - lovely shave and looks to die for. And I sold my Wolfman and my Denali, both bigbucks moderns

 

[Swingboy8]

I was looking for one as well but after seeing quite a few going for more than 400$, I gave up. (...)

While I like the way the first gen looks and find it a nice razor to have in my collection, I highly doubt that the shaving experience is worth paying $400+. I can think of many modern razors at that price range and even below that would shave much better. (...)

Although i have a preference for vintage razors, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong in your argumentation and i agree with you on almost everything.

I have an aristocrat junior #48 in my rotation but i only paid 15€ for it... And believe or not, i missed a #21 sold for 10€ a few weeks ago !
I was just behind the guy when he bought it. If only i could have been there 5 minutes earlier...

Nevertheless, people can do what they want with their money & if that makes them happy to buy razors for 400$ or more, there is nothing wrong with that as well...

 

[Medivh]

I use a 1st gen as part of my regular rotation - lovely shave and looks to die for. And I sold my Wolfman and my Denali, both bigbucks moderns

I'm sure that some people are using the first gen and love it, but those are a very small minority of the owners. If only I started shaving 10 + years ago I would have bought one in good condition for around 100$ with ease. Oh well....

 

[Medivh]

Although i have a preference for vintage razors, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong in your argumentation and i agree with you on almost everything.

I have an aristocrat junior #48 in my rotation but i only paid 15€ for it... And believe or not, i missed a #21 sold for 10€ a few weeks ago !
I was just behind the guy when he bought it. If only i could have been there 5 minutes earlier...

Nevertheless, people can do what they want with their money & if that makes them happy to buy razors for 400$ or more, there is nothing wrong with that as well...

Exactly, everyone can do whatever he wants with his money, no argument here. I'm just saying that 400$ is a bit too much for me to spend on a razor that I won't use all the time. I've spent much more on other things, but I use them all the time and I know exactly what i'm getting.

 

[CaerMooman]

I got a limit of £50 for a 1st gen Brit crats .. it's the looking for the bargain which is the fun for me; giving £150+ wouldn't make it so prized.

 

[Medivh]

I got a limit of £50 for a 1st gen Brit crats .. it's the looking for the bargain which is the fun for me; giving £150+ wouldn't make it so prized.

It's not impossible to find one in the wild for £50, but it won't be in a good condition and it will have alignment issues for sure. Even the ones in good condition have misalignment issues and unless the razor is NOS/mint or used only a couple of times (and even then there's not guarantee), it would most definitely have any kind of misalignment problems and the same goes for the second generation as well.

I have rarely seen one on sale with both doors closed perfectly or without the silo doors being slightly misaligned with the base plate of the razor and I came to the conclusion that sending such razor for at least a tune up service is a must. The other issue is that it's very hard to find anyone in Europe who can do that and you have to send it to the US, which means that even if you can get it for free, you have to spend $60+ with shipping to be in top shape, so the way I look it there's mathematically no way to find one in both perfect condition and at the same time also very cheap.

I think the first and second gen Aristocrats along with the Old Types are Gillette's most delicate and fragile models they ever made and for a good reason. The Old Type series were their first razors on the market and both the US and the British first gen Aristocrats were their first TTO models and they were like beta versions that needed to be upgraded along the way. Not saying that they were bad shavers, but both of them have lots of issues and are also super fragile and pretty much any drop is fatal, which almost no other later Gillette model has. Like Matt from Razor Emporium said regarding the quality of the 30s US Aristocrats, which also applies for the British as well (even though they were made a bit better) - ''it was not their best, it was their first''.