I'm eyeing a Chubby 3 LE Manchurian. Is anybody using one of these beasts? What do you think of it? I'm really more interested in a Chubby 2, but I'd like to try the Manchurian hair, and the 2s aren't available with it. Does the Manchurian hair make that much difference? What's different between it and Best? Is there anything practical about a Chubby 3 at all, or is lathering with it the equivalent of hunting rabbits with a bazooka? Is anybody out there a regular user of a Chubby 3 in any hair grade? I don't see the 3s mentioned much here. Lots of questions. Thanks for any replies.
Chubby 3 Manchurian
- Thread starter segnod
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As always, mileage varies.
I'm not a fan of extra-large (e.g., > 27mm base diameter) brushes and I'm also not a huge fan of super-dense brushes.
Chubby 3s are extra-large, super dense-brushes.
For me, the Chubby 3's size is overkill, but its density is something else. In my experience, beyond a tipping point that can vary depending on other variables (e.g., knot shape, hair type, etc.) increasing density results in reduced lather production and flow. Density seems to me to have trended over much of this year. In my opinion it has been over-hyped. But that's just my opinion.
As for the difference between Simpson's so-called Manchurian grade of badger hair and its Super 2-band variety, you'll find a lot of discussion on the topic if you do a site search (e.g., Simpson Manchurian difference site:badgerandblade.com). I only have one Simpson brush labeled as Manchurian (a Tulip 3), although I believe my Butterscotch M7 also has the same hair type (and it came in a box labeled as Manchurian). I can't distinguish between those two brushes based solely on hair appearance or feel.
I do believe the Manchurian hair is sorted based on distinguishing characteristics, but I think those characteristics can be very subtle. There is variance among Simpson brushes labeled Manchurian just as there is variance among Simpson brushes labeled as Super 2-Band. And I strongly suspect some Manchurian-labeled knots are virtually indistinguishable from some 2-band knots and that some 2-band knots are virtually indistinguishable from some Manchurian knots.
I've read, and don't find it hard to believe, that in the beginning the Manchurian designation was simply a marketing gimmick. As I said, I give credence to the claim that there is supposed to be a difference in the brushes Simpson currently labeled Manchurian, although it wouldn't surprise me at all if the difference has changed over time and may continue to change from batch to batch.
My T3 is one of my favorite brushes. It's pleasantly scrubby without being scritchy, and has just the right amount of backbone for me at a good knot diameter/loft combination without being too dense. It performs exceptionally. But it doesn't have very white tips. My impression is that tip whiteness has evolved to carry more weight as a criterion of selection in sorting for Manchurian hair.
What I've stated above is, for the most part, what I think/believe. It isn't based on what anyone at Simpson has told me, except that when I once called to order a T3 in Manchurian (before I got mine on BST), I was steered toward a Chubby 2 by reason of the fact the ones then in stock had whiter tips than the T3s available at that time.
I'm not a fan of extra-large (e.g., > 27mm base diameter) brushes and I'm also not a huge fan of super-dense brushes.
Chubby 3s are extra-large, super dense-brushes.
For me, the Chubby 3's size is overkill, but its density is something else. In my experience, beyond a tipping point that can vary depending on other variables (e.g., knot shape, hair type, etc.) increasing density results in reduced lather production and flow. Density seems to me to have trended over much of this year. In my opinion it has been over-hyped. But that's just my opinion.
As for the difference between Simpson's so-called Manchurian grade of badger hair and its Super 2-band variety, you'll find a lot of discussion on the topic if you do a site search (e.g., Simpson Manchurian difference site:badgerandblade.com). I only have one Simpson brush labeled as Manchurian (a Tulip 3), although I believe my Butterscotch M7 also has the same hair type (and it came in a box labeled as Manchurian). I can't distinguish between those two brushes based solely on hair appearance or feel.
I do believe the Manchurian hair is sorted based on distinguishing characteristics, but I think those characteristics can be very subtle. There is variance among Simpson brushes labeled Manchurian just as there is variance among Simpson brushes labeled as Super 2-Band. And I strongly suspect some Manchurian-labeled knots are virtually indistinguishable from some 2-band knots and that some 2-band knots are virtually indistinguishable from some Manchurian knots.
I've read, and don't find it hard to believe, that in the beginning the Manchurian designation was simply a marketing gimmick. As I said, I give credence to the claim that there is supposed to be a difference in the brushes Simpson currently labeled Manchurian, although it wouldn't surprise me at all if the difference has changed over time and may continue to change from batch to batch.
My T3 is one of my favorite brushes. It's pleasantly scrubby without being scritchy, and has just the right amount of backbone for me at a good knot diameter/loft combination without being too dense. It performs exceptionally. But it doesn't have very white tips. My impression is that tip whiteness has evolved to carry more weight as a criterion of selection in sorting for Manchurian hair.
What I've stated above is, for the most part, what I think/believe. It isn't based on what anyone at Simpson has told me, except that when I once called to order a T3 in Manchurian (before I got mine on BST), I was steered toward a Chubby 2 by reason of the fact the ones then in stock had whiter tips than the T3s available at that time.
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I have a Chubby 3 Manchurian and Super, and previously owned a Chubby 2 two band. The Chubby 3 Manchurian is my favorite of the three, and the only one still in my rotation. However, I dont really think the Manchurian is worth the additional price. Yes, it is my favorite, but only by a small measure.
The hair quality is softish with a hint of texture. To my face its not exactly scritchy, but there is something there that I call texture. Backbone is great, and the density on these is top notch. My two band was softer, and did not have the "texture" to it. The three band Super is nice too, but hogs lather more, and has a little less backbone.
As to the size, I love big brushes. I'm not a big big guy, I'm 6'0 and only a little stocky. Though my hands are very big for my size and I like my brush handles door knob size. So brush size is really just a personal preference. Though SWIMBO and your wallet have a big vote in to how much you can spend on trying big brushes.
The hair quality is softish with a hint of texture. To my face its not exactly scritchy, but there is something there that I call texture. Backbone is great, and the density on these is top notch. My two band was softer, and did not have the "texture" to it. The three band Super is nice too, but hogs lather more, and has a little less backbone.
As to the size, I love big brushes. I'm not a big big guy, I'm 6'0 and only a little stocky. Though my hands are very big for my size and I like my brush handles door knob size. So brush size is really just a personal preference. Though SWIMBO and your wallet have a big vote in to how much you can spend on trying big brushes.
Here are my top five in regular use:
Simpson Tulip 3 Butterscotch Manchurian badger,
Simpson The Hive Disco Haze Manchurian badger ,
Thiers Issard 23X48 Desert Ironwood Super Badger,
Rooney 2 Beehive Heritage in faux bone Super Badger,
Simpson Chubby 3 Disco Haze Two Band Silvertip.
The Chubby 3 slips in spot five just because it is mostly a soap brush. My sixth spot would be a Chubby 2 Manchurian, also in regular use.
Of the ones you are considering, the Manchurian is a great grade, but if you want decadent luxury the two band Chubby 3 is the one.
Practical is in the buyers eyes and most of what forum members buy and use weighs heavily on other factors. Neither of the below Chubbies will be leaving my shave den...
Simpson Tulip 3 Butterscotch Manchurian badger,
Simpson The Hive Disco Haze Manchurian badger ,
Thiers Issard 23X48 Desert Ironwood Super Badger,
Rooney 2 Beehive Heritage in faux bone Super Badger,
Simpson Chubby 3 Disco Haze Two Band Silvertip.
The Chubby 3 slips in spot five just because it is mostly a soap brush. My sixth spot would be a Chubby 2 Manchurian, also in regular use.
Of the ones you are considering, the Manchurian is a great grade, but if you want decadent luxury the two band Chubby 3 is the one.
Practical is in the buyers eyes and most of what forum members buy and use weighs heavily on other factors. Neither of the below Chubbies will be leaving my shave den...
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CheefBroom had some great points. I would like to add that from what I have seen on here Manchurian brushes seem to have slightly better quality control. My brother had 4 Manchurians and between us we have had a dozen non Manchurians. Of that small sample size, plus the Manchurian brushes I have observed on here seem much more consistently on spec. IMO Simpson lets way to many quirky brushes past quality control. Hand made is not an excuse for sloppy inconsistent workmanship. Plus, you should not have to spend $300 to get a consistent quality brush.
And I would make the counter point to his desnity lather hogging argument, that a properly lathered/broken in uber dense brush will give a more consistent lather flow. I dont like wasting half of my lather on the first pass. I like having 4 more or less thin a even coats of lather. But I'm a density nut, so take that with a grain of salt.
And I would make the counter point to his desnity lather hogging argument, that a properly lathered/broken in uber dense brush will give a more consistent lather flow. I dont like wasting half of my lather on the first pass. I like having 4 more or less thin a even coats of lather. But I'm a density nut, so take that with a grain of salt.
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This is consistent with my impressions based on fairly limited experience.
In other words, mileage varies.
And if it didn't, where would the fun be?
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- Thread starter
- #9
Thanks for the replies everybody.
Hon, thanks for the link. ChiefBroom's post in that link was interesting and informative.
ChiefBroom (Ken), thanks for replying to this thread and for the search syntax. I've seen that before and can never remember what it is. I need to write that down.
u2u, that Chubby 2 is what I really want!
Loric, I agree 100% about quality. I like the variation and uniqueness of handmade stuff, but that doesn't mean sloppiness or poor quality is acceptable.
I think I'll keep my sights set on a Chubby 2 to scratch the Chubby itch. And since I have no complaints about Simpson's Best hair in other brushes, the Manchurian probably doesn't offer anything that'd make my shaving life drastically better. I can't believe I'm even considering paying more than three hundred dollars for a hank of hair and a shiny piece of plastic. Lord, what's happened to me? I was perfectly content with my Jagger starter brush a few months ago. Now I have 12 brushes and can't stop looking at and thinking about others. I'm 57 years old. I'm supposed to be beyond longing for shiny new toys.
Hon, thanks for the link. ChiefBroom's post in that link was interesting and informative.
ChiefBroom (Ken), thanks for replying to this thread and for the search syntax. I've seen that before and can never remember what it is. I need to write that down.
u2u, that Chubby 2 is what I really want!
Loric, I agree 100% about quality. I like the variation and uniqueness of handmade stuff, but that doesn't mean sloppiness or poor quality is acceptable.
I think I'll keep my sights set on a Chubby 2 to scratch the Chubby itch. And since I have no complaints about Simpson's Best hair in other brushes, the Manchurian probably doesn't offer anything that'd make my shaving life drastically better. I can't believe I'm even considering paying more than three hundred dollars for a hank of hair and a shiny piece of plastic. Lord, what's happened to me? I was perfectly content with my Jagger starter brush a few months ago. Now I have 12 brushes and can't stop looking at and thinking about others. I'm 57 years old. I'm supposed to be beyond longing for shiny new toys.
Not to complicate things further, but Wet Shaving Products had a Manchurian knot for a great price, but they have unfortunately sold out. The characteristics of it are in line with what Loric states about the hair's with great backbone, very dense and a 'texture' to it with very soft tips.
I have a Chubby 2 Super and it is one of the best brushes I have tried; extremely dense, soft and wonderful. I could not even imagine using a Chubby 3!
Good luck with your decision!
I have a Chubby 2 Super and it is one of the best brushes I have tried; extremely dense, soft and wonderful. I could not even imagine using a Chubby 3!
Good luck with your decision!
There is also a Chinese knock off Manchurian. I have one, and its only half as dense as my Chubby, but the hair grade seems to be the same. It's $10 + 10 shipping for a 30mm knot. So for a fraction of the price you could get a feel for the kind of hair grade it is. Again, the density is not there, but its not awful. I have one in my rotation along with the Manchurian, but 2/3 of that is the custom Eagle handle I had made up for it.... I'm a real sucker for an Eagle handle.
The only difference between the men and the boys, is how much money you have to get tricked out of for your toys!
I have a lot of high end brushes, and I have a lot of low/medium cost customs. At the end of the day, I enjoy a properly tuned custom brush over the high end brushes, but not by much. I have my tastes so well tuned in, I fight myself over letting go of the high dolor brushes sometimes, but they all have some characteristic that cant be replicated in a custom. I.e. Rooney Finest, the density of the Manchurian, etc etc.
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You're welcome. But most of us are just passing on what we've received here.
Or we are the kind of addicts who cant keep our mouths shutAnyway, your welcome!
And that too.
I meant to mention that I spent 2-3 months with an almost unendurable Manchurian Chubby 2 itch. But something kept holding me back. And that was a concern than for me it might end up being two much of a good thing. You might have come across that if you read all of my posts in the linked thread.
FWIW, I'm 60. At the start of last October, when I was still 59, I had two badger hair brushes, plus one boar and one horse. Now I have about 40 badger hair brushes. I mostly stopped acquiring new brushes back in April. Like Loric, I'm pretty dialed in for myself now. But I'm also having trouble turning loose of brushes. They're all different, and I like being able to pull any one of them down on random impulse.
I couldn't imagine a Chubby 2 until I fell for the Coral Red Manchurian. That lead to a two band Chubby 3. I thought the big brush fans were nuts. Don't know till you try. They are amazing brushes and a delight to use.
Segnod, you are at "the age", have no regrets when you pull the trigger.
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I found the link to the knock off Manchurian knot. Its medium density at best, but the hair quality is similar. Just dont expect shipping to be lightning fast. But for the price, its just fine.
http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/250582577.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/250582577.html
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- #18
A quick follow up to this thread. I scratched my Chubby itch with a 2 Best a couple weeks ago. Thanks to the good advice I got here, I avoided what I think would have been shock and awe at acquiring a Chubby 3. Maybe I'll try one someday just out of curiosity when all other curiosities have been satisfied. But for now, the Chubby 2 answers my Chubby questions. I also bought a Milk Churn while I was ordering, just to get it out of the way. I'd been lusting after them for months, so I figured I might as well go ahead and get the dang thing. I'll post my impressions and pictures of both brushes later. But for now, I'll just say that the advice given here served me well as far as the differences between the Chubby 2 and 3. That 2 is a monster, and I can't imagine a brush with more hair than this thing has being practical to use! I've only used it a few times, but I'm pretty sure it'll never be an everyday brush. It just takes too long to load up and to clean up, and it's a little stingy with lather. Maybe it'll get more generous as it's broken in. But right now, I see it as probably an occasional weekender when I just want to play around making massive amounts of suds. But I like it, and it satisfied my Chubby itch, so all is good! And that Milk Churn: Wow! What a brush! What an unexpected surprise. I was basically just buying a handle. The fact that it even had a knot in it was almost irrelevant. But man oh man, does that thing have a nice knot! The handle is even more pleasurable to hold than I imagined, and I'd say the brush itself is among my top two or three as far as the quality and enjoyment of the knot and ergonomics of the handle. My Churn is going to be a regular user. Pictures and more detailed impressions later. The wife unit is unaware of all my brushes, so I'm sneaking around like a kid hiding stuff from his parents. I'm too old for this crap, but I just don't have the patience for the sideways glances. So for now, here's the family portrait of my favorites at this point. I'll add the Chub and the Churn next time the wife unit's gone and I can use her piano for a photographic platform.
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- #19
Hmmm. I said quick follow up, didn't I? Then I write an essay. I'm too damned old for e-speak. I don't do text lingo or email abbreviations. I think and speak and write in sentences and paragraphs. I figure if I only have time for "thx" instead of "thank you", I either need to get my other pressing stuff done before writing, or I shouldn't be writing at all. I probably drive the younger generation nuts with my wordy emails, texts, and forum posts. Oh well. They drive me nuts with their abbreviations. My 20-something daughters don't complain. So there! Thanks again to everybody who offered advice in this thread.
Congratulations on the Chubby 2 acquisition! No pics? 
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