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- #41
Oh come one, let's not be petty. Giving a child a whack on the butt is not beating. As long as it's with an open hand and it's on the butt, I think it's fine.
I guarantee you that very few children would listen to a "talk".
Children these days
- Thread starter mretzloff
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Oh come one, let's not be petty. Giving a child a whack on the butt is not beating. As long as it's with an open hand and it's on the butt, I think it's fine.
I guarantee you that very few children would listen to a "talk".
I advocate spanking. However, some children only get spankings and beatings and no explanation as to why it happened. Many of these children are abused. I can guarantee you as a teacher that "talks" can make a lot of headway.
I don't mean to be a fly in the ointment here, but have you ever spent any time around kids before? Have you ever worked with them?
It doesn't matter! There are other ways to discipline a child. Resorting to violence and stooping to that level won't make matters any better.
What's the basis for that statement?
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- #45
If you don't mind me asking, what grade level are you teaching?
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- #46
The current state of the US public school system and how the behavior of children has gone down since discipline has virtually disappeared.
Elementary.
The current state of the US public school system has more to do with community involvement (or lack there of) and the parenting (or lack there of) that happens to the children attending the schools. Parents seem to be utterly disparaged because of their kids these days, almost regretful that they had them in the first place. Try working with hundreds of kids like that every day and see if it doesn't grind you down a little bit. Teachers are tired of picking up the slack for crappy parenting and an utter lack of a positive model at home. We would much rather teach our subject than deal with the discipline and integrity issues that are going on behind closed doors in the homes of the children.
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- #49
Age group plays a huge difference. You can tell a rowdy 5th grader to be quiet, but the same is not true for a public high schooler.
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- #50
I agree with that, but it still shows that a simple talk will not do.
Teachers have a choice when it comes to what to teach. We aren't all cut from the same cloth...and that's why I choose elementary. To be honest, I've worked with high schoolers before and my theory is that by the age of 14, they still have a lot of growing up to do, but man, their minds are made up about how much effort they're willing to put into any given thing. It takes the fear of God to make a lot of high schoolers do anything other than drugs and whatever the hell they want to do.
As for the "simple talk" comment, consider this. You're talking to a nine year-old boy that is acting out in your classroom. Well, why is this happening? It generally comes from either a lack of attention at home, too much attention at home, or the child is trying to tell you something. Young kids can't articulate that they're having trouble at home, or that they're being abused, so they act out. As a teacher, I dare not spank my kids or be physically rough with them beyond my training to deal with emotionally disturbed children. But with some kids, a pop on the butt isn't going to do anything but teach them negatively. Kids are wired differently, and it happens from kid to kid. Some kids will get spanked and it will have a positive effect, they correlate negative behavior with negative consequences, and they stop doing it.
But anyhow, this nine year-old boy is just about out of ways to communicate, so he acts out. If all that happens to him at home is beatings and screaming, and it's causing this behavior, then the inverse action, which is talking to the child and getting on their level, is generally the best course of action. How do I know this? Because it's a very big part of my job.
I teach high school. It is a bit different from the early grades, but you can talk to high school kids. The problem is, few people, be they parents or teachers, ever try. I will raise my voice on occasion, but I don't use foul language or name-calling.
You really think a parent disciplining a child is on the same level as beating up another adult? Get real. Kids don't always listen very well, and if all you're going to get is a talking to when you do something wrong where is the reinforcement not to do it again? This kind of buddy-parenting only fosters a sense of being able to do whatever you want.
Unfortunately in the case of adults your statement is also accurate. There comes a time when talking to someone on their level no longer works. Ask a police officer. We don't get in physical altercations because we enjoy them. We get into them when they become the last resort, the only option to saving the life of themselves or an innocent.
This is how I see spanking. It should be reserved for the worst situations. It's not something that should happen for every offense and it is not something that should be "a beating".
Well said. Buddy Parenting that's a great way to describe it. It's the kind of parenting (or IMO lack of parenting) that leads to a child that feels entitled, a child that feels they are the equal of the parent. Buddy parenting leads to a child that is your friend and not your child. You can be a friend and parent to a child, but friend only will never turn out good. You have to remember that you are a parent first. Try telling a friend what they can or cannot do, they still decide whether or not to take your "advice" because advice is all it becomes. For a child that advice means you are no longer the parent.
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I agree with this statement. I find that the best parents use a balance of means to discipline a child, and that's what it's all about, balance and moderation. Bad parents go to extremes; I've seen kids that have curling iron burns on them and they have told guidance counselors that it was done to them for speaking out of turn at the dinner table. At the other end of the spectrum, I've spoken to parents of children that have committed acts of theft from the school and the parents are in utter denial about what their child is doing, and therefore no discipline is given. In either event, the parents are ruining those kids.
The very best parents I've worked with only need to talk to their kids. Hell, they only need to LOOK at their kids! And the reason? They've spanked, not beaten their kids, and they were given clear explanations as to why the punishment was administered, and they were told to never act that way again. It's no secret that kids with parents like that have utmost respect for authority figures.
Very, very well said Shane.
My Dad has always said that ADHD is just code for Adult Discipline Deficiency. When I was a kid I got punished when I was wrong and so did most of the other kids in the family. The one group of cousins that weren't aren't able to cope with the world now that they are out on thir own, hence they've all moved back home.
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Just thought I'd add that I spent 2 years training as a High School teacher but in the end gave up because the system today provides no options for dealing with misbehaving children. 'Behaviour Traning' bvasically consisted of telling us all the things we had to avoid doing personally so that we can't be sued and when the issue of making sure you are always within the line of sight of another teacher so you have a witness if you are accused of sexual misconduct came up I knew that the school NSW system was a lost cause. There are still a few private schools down here that allow the use of the cane, it requires parental permission and its generally only done 2 or 3 times a year and its done on stage at school assembly where everyone can see. Those schools don't have misbehaving students.
EDIT
Just thought I'd add that I spent 2 years training as a High School teacher but in the end gave up because the system today provides no options for dealing with misbehaving children. 'Behaviour Traning' bvasically consisted of telling us all the things we had to avoid doing personally so that we can't be sued and when the issue of making sure you are always within the line of sight of another teacher so you have a witness if you are accused of sexual misconduct came up I knew that the school NSW system was a lost cause. There are still a few private schools down here that allow the use of the cane, it requires parental permission and its generally only done 2 or 3 times a year and its done on stage at school assembly where everyone can see. Those schools don't have misbehaving students.
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Kids don't always listen because it's a natural part of their mental progress, to question, to defy, to have mood swings.
I'm not some new age parent that think that you should let kids do whatever they want because it's some learning process.
But, I don't believe that fear and threats of spanking, which I think it equal to violence, should be used in a childs upbringing.
When my kid is grown enough to understand what I tell him, I will use this:
"If you don't listen to me, I won't listen to you".
Whenever I tell him something and he doesn't listen, the next time he wants to do something, like go to a movie, I will just point to the time he didn't listen to me and say no.
I got my share of slaps from my mother. She's really old-school and she would backhand me over the mouth, with her rings.
My father on the other hand never did anything of that kind, and I respect him more because he had the ability to talk sense into me. Mom would just lose it and get angry, which of course is fun when you're a kid, so I would just **** her off even more, resulting in her chasing me with a slipper, which then became a coat hanger and finally when I was too fast for her, a broom stick!
Thank you Slag, Shane. Moderation is key. I never got spanked for the same thing twice, and I always knew why it happened. All my mom usually had to do was glare at me, and I was usually done acting stupid. Or she just had to say something.
Talking only goes so far. You can tell a child 1000 times not to touch the hot stove, but do they listen? Or do they find out it actually IS hot when they touch it? Pain is one of the best teachers in the world, properly applied. As for the scumbags who torture their kids, well, I hope there is a special section of Hell for them.
Talking only goes so far. You can tell a child 1000 times not to touch the hot stove, but do they listen? Or do they find out it actually IS hot when they touch it? Pain is one of the best teachers in the world, properly applied. As for the scumbags who torture their kids, well, I hope there is a special section of Hell for them.
