Cheapie Oriental Razor Shootout!

[Slash McCoy]

Another Titan shave today, and an early one. I actually am not up early... I am just still up late, and if I lay down now I won't get up until at least 9 or 10, and I know everyone is waiting for my final Titan review and shave-off. This time I match the Gold Dollar P81 against the most expensive of my three Titan test razors, the $43 ACRO steel model.

I mentioned already that this razor skates right over my coarse stones, and it doesn't give up steel easily. I was anticipating a real battle between the razor and the lapping film, but it really wasn't that bad. and there wasn't a lot of steel that had to come off, anyway. In maybe three minutes on the 15u film, I felt ready to move to the 9u, and I was getting some stiction after maybe two dozen laps. I keept going, reducing pressure as the coarse scratches faded away, and again it was only a few dozen laps in total before I was ready for the 3u film. That stage only took a few minutes. When the 1u had done its job, after maybe three minutes, I added some shave lather and went 200 short x stroke laps with decreasing pressure. I went the usual 50 laps on the .5u and .25u plus some pull strokes, then went triple that on the .1u with just pull strokes and short x strokes, holding the balsa vertical and going for the absolute lightest pressure. I really wanted to see what kind of edge this razor would support, and the treetopping at the end was very satisfying. I have razors that I can put a better edge on, but this was really good. The only thing that wasn't optimal is that the stabilizer is very intrusive and I really should have cut the heel back just a bit more than I did. On the plus side, I really didn't have a hard time cutting this steel with the lapping film, and the razor was well set up, with a nice gently smiling edge, right out the box so setting the bevel was simply a matter of setting the bevel. This razor wasn't ground by someone who neither knows nor cares about straight razors. I would love to have that guy and a wheelbarrow full of 1095 out in the shop. So overall this razor was actually quite nice to hone. I almost wish I had two of them, so I could do another one, on stones to the finish, for comparison. Final result was an edge that treetopped easily at 1/4" with only the faintest tink of a sound.

The shave was actually about the same as the Gold Dollar P81 shave, but I expect that with continued shaving with the razor and maintenance with the .1u diamond pasted balsa, it would improve. Also this is not a common razor steel, and I am sure if I were more experienced with it, I might have got a slightly better result.

In appearance, no contest. The Titan is quite a handsome razor, very well polished, beautifully etched, with bottom jimps that are maybe slightly less well executed than those of the ACRM-2 razor, but still very nice. The stabilizer could have been made a bit less bothersome, and why, oh WHY bother with inner washers? Sheer stupidity. Like the others, a flat spacer instead of a wedge. Two marks in the minus column there. Ebony(?) scales look pretty nice, and the polished brass escutcheon with the logo etched into it is an attractive embellishment. The razor doesn't center properly but it doesn't quite touch the scales when closing. Scales are only slightly overweight and would not significantly affect the balance except for the razor itself being lighter than most others in its class.

There are a lot of things I personally don't like about this razor, but a few things that I do like. I would really like to see this razor sold without any cost-added extras, and priced retail at around $36 or so. The buyer is paying for a "strop shaped object" that he will never use, and a ridiculous zippered case that will likewise not get used. Myself, I don't buy razors to admire. I buy them to shave with. From what I have seen in the shave this morning, I can't justify paying so much more for this razor than I pay for the control razor, a GD P81. I can certainly understand if someone disagrees with me, because it is a nice looking razor considering what it is, a low budget Asian razor designed more to be sold than to be used. But no, I won't be getting rid of this one. After all, it's already paid for.

I still can't in good conscience emphatically recommend this razor, but nobody who buys one will get any static from me for it, either. If it was a lot cheaper, then I would be a fan. If it had a wedge, and the scales were thin enough to do their job. If the shank were thinned like the VG10 razor. If it didn't have those ridiculous inside washers. If I didn't use the balsa, and I needed a razor made from very hard steel that would hold an edge a long time. Mostly, it's all about the price. The GD P81 shaves as good or better, for a fraction of the cost, and while it looks better, it still doesn't have the kind of beauty I might be willing to pay extra for. YMMV.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I have finished measuring up all seven of my Titan VG10HZ SR's. These are the "same" as @Slash McCoy's one and the results are:

Notes:
1. Blade Thickness is measured at the top of the bevel.
2. Balance Point is measured from the pivot pin; +ve away from blade & -ve towards blade.

Name​	Blade Width (mm)​	Bevel Angle (deg)​	Edge Length (mm)​	Blade Thickness (mm)​	Mass (g)​	Balance Point (mm)​
月曜日	21​	18.1​	67​	0.25​	79​	+10​
火曜日	21​	17.8​	68​	0.27​	80​	+11​
水曜日	21​	19.4​	69​	0.24​	83​	+9​
木曜日	21​	18.7​	67​	0.28​	81​	+10​
金曜日	21​	18.1​	68​	0.32​	84​	+12​
土曜日	21​	18.6​	68​	0.24​	81​	+10​
日曜日	21​	18.9​	67​	0.27​	80​	+10​
Average	21​	18.5​	68​	0.27​	81​	+10​

Ideally, the razor balances between thumb and forefinger when you hold if for shaving, honing, or stropping. It shouldn't balance at the pivot or way back on the tang. Weight isn't really much of an issue, as long as that weight is balanced where you actually grip the razor. Of course one is free to have his own preferences so YMMV.

 

[rbscebu]

@Slash McCoy I would like to thank you for going to the trouble and expense of trying and reporting on some of the Titan razors that are available. I believe that you have done a good job.

I now hope that you can occasionally include some of your Titans in your rotation and see how they develop through use and getting use to them.

 

[rbscebu]

Ideally, the razor balances between thumb and forefinger when you hold if for shaving, honing, or stropping. It shouldn't balance at the pivot or way back on the tang. Weight isn't really much of an issue, as long as that weight is balanced where you actually grip the razor. Of course one is free to have his own preferences so YMMV.

I should have clarified that the balance point was measured with the blade opened to 180deg. With that opening, most SR's, except those with light(er) plastic scales, will balance at about the pivot pin.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I should have clarified that the balance point was measured with the blade opened to 180deg. With that opening, most SR's, except those with light(er) plastic scales, will balance at about the pivot pin.

Yes, but they SHOULD balance where you grip the razor with it open. That is why excessively heavy scales are avoided or criticized by so many shavers.

 

[rbscebu]

Yes, but they SHOULD balance where you grip the razor with it open. That is why excessively heavy scales are avoided or criticized by so many shavers.

The reason I chose 180deg open to measure the balance point is because a variation of a few degrees does not noticeably affect the result. When opened 270deg, a variation of just a few degrees will affect the result.

I agree and, for me, excessively heavy scales have a 180deg balance point well away from the pivot pin and the blade. This is one of the detractions of the VG10HZ that you and I have.

I also find that the 180deg balance point of the Gold Dollar 208 a detraction being almost at the blade's shoulder.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I thought we were done here. But I decided to give the VG10HZ another chance. If I could just stop the razor from chipping while honing, I thought, maybe I could make something of it. At first I was thinking maybe a thick and heavy slurry on the Awasedo but then a piece of well worn 30u film caught my eye. It has probably had 30 razors honed on it and it is getting pretty clear in places. So I did about 200 back-and-forths on each side and then sets of 20, 10, and 4, then Iwasaki zigzags and pull strokes. Lots of pull strokes. I wanted all stria to be parallel to the edge before proceeding. It just seemed like a good idea. I'm looking at the edge with the Belomo and the chips were mostly gone, but there were two incredibly fine hairs laying across the bevel. I gave the razor a wipe, to look at it again without the hairs and they were still there. Not hairs... CRACKS! Very tiny ones, perpendicular to the edge, too small to see with the naked eye but visible in the loupe... when the stria are not parallel to them! They were there all along, causing the chips, but hidden among the scratches. This razor is not going to ever hone properly. I found two, and there are probably more. I flipped the razor and looked at the other side. Yup, cracks, through and through.

So, I got a bad one. Doesn't mean they are all like that. Those are quench cracks, pretty sure of that. I was really hoping to get a nice Method edge on that razor and have a decent shave, then put it up on fleabay, but it's not to be. It's a goner.

 

[LJS]

Amazing! More cracked titans :-O

You can look at many of these online razors and easily spot those made by SR shavers and those not.......and for that I am thankful. If the basics elements of a decent razor aren’t there then you can’t expect much on the functionality either. It is a shame because with the manufacturing they go through it proves they have the capability - just not the know-how. The fixation on manufacturing for hardness is just silly if it is just junk and cracks or chips. Hard steel doesn’t mean good steel and it seems these are examples of that.

Thank you for guinea pigging for us Slash. You have actually had a variety of razors to compare.

 

[rbscebu]

I thought we were done here. But I decided to give the VG10HZ another chance. If I could just stop the razor from chipping while honing, I thought, maybe I could make something of it. At first I was thinking maybe a thick and heavy slurry on the Awasedo but then a piece of well worn 30u film caught my eye. It has probably had 30 razors honed on it and it is getting pretty clear in places. So I did about 200 back-and-forths on each side and then sets of 20, 10, and 4, then Iwasaki zigzags and pull strokes. Lots of pull strokes. I wanted all stria to be parallel to the edge before proceeding. It just seemed like a good idea. I'm looking at the edge with the Belomo and the chips were mostly gone, but there were two incredibly fine hairs laying across the bevel. I gave the razor a wipe, to look at it again without the hairs and they were still there. Not hairs... CRACKS! Very tiny ones, perpendicular to the edge, too small to see with the naked eye but visible in the loupe... when the stria are not parallel to them! They were there all along, causing the chips, but hidden among the scratches. This razor is not going to ever hone properly. I found two, and there are probably more. I flipped the razor and looked at the other side. Yup, cracks, through and through.

So, I got a bad one. Doesn't mean they are all like that. Those are quench cracks, pretty sure of that. I was really hoping to get a nice Method edge on that razor and have a decent shave, then put it up on fleabay, but it's not to be. It's a goner.

This is an interesting observation. Some may remember my report on B&B about my first Titan VG10-HZ that cracked on me.

I Think I've Lost It

I received my new Titan VG10-HZ a few weeks ago and reviewed it here. I set the bevel and progressed through lapping film before putting it away. I was pre-occupied shaving with my other Titan SRs and developing their edges. Yesterday I decided to take the VG10-HZ out and progress further...

www.badgerandblade.com

I have also found that VG10-HZ's can be a "chippy" when honing although only one in eight has cracked on me.

I am now starting to think that there must be a reason why Japanese VG10 is not normally used in SR blade manufacturing. It may be great for knives but not SR's.

When I have the time, I will examine the blades of my M7DS of Titan VG10-HZ's (my least favourite M7DS) under a microscope for any micro-cracking and report back here.

 

[global_dev]

Amazing! More cracked titans :-O

I don’t recall seeing a lot of chatter about this issue, outside rbescus cracked blade.tbh, i haven’t been looking, but it hasntcaught my eye. Is this really as commonplace as your comment implies.

 

[Herrenberg]

This was a very interesting shootout, thanks for the great thread. I can't entirely tell whether you "took one for the team" or you really had fun, but I'm going to guess it started out as the first, and wound up as the second.

As a point of information, a brief curiosity about the 70 hardness razor was not rewarded with finding anyone actually selling one. It wasn't in the Alibaba store, as far as I could tell. I probably wouldn't have bought it even had I found it, but we all have moments of weakness, so who can say?

 

[rbscebu]

This was a very interesting shootout, thanks for the great thread. I can't entirely tell whether you "took one for the team" or you really had fun, but I'm going to guess it started out as the first, and wound up as the second.

As a point of information, a brief curiosity about the 70 hardness razor was not rewarded with finding anyone actually selling one. It wasn't in the Alibaba store, as far as I could tell. I probably wouldn't have bought it even had I found it, but we all have moments of weakness, so who can say?

Of the four Titan blade steels that I have regularly shaved with, my preferences are (highest to lowest):

ACRO T.H.70​

ACRM-2 T.H.60​

ACRO T.H.64​

VG10-HZ T.H.63​

The Titan ACRO T.H.70 is available on both AliExpress and Trendhim.

109.9US $ |Titan high quality shaving razor stainless steel blade sharp already staight razor free shipping|Razor| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Top Grade Handmade Straight Razor 13/16" | In stock! | Titan

Buy Titan - Top Grade Handmade Straight Razor 13/16" for only $145. Shop at Trendhim and get 365 day free returns. We take pride in providing an excellent experience.

www.trendhim.com

 

[Herrenberg]

The Titan ACRO T.H.70 is available on both AliExpress and Trendhim.

109.9US $ |Titan high quality shaving razor stainless steel blade sharp already staight razor free shipping|Razor| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Top Grade Handmade Straight Razor 13/16" | In stock! | Titan

Buy Titan - Top Grade Handmade Straight Razor 13/16" for only $145. Shop at Trendhim and get 365 day free returns. We take pride in providing an excellent experience.

www.trendhim.com

I can't find anything about 70 hardness at either link, and the aliexpress one explicitly lists hardness at 61-63 HRC. What am I missing?

Granted, the aliexpress link calls it "the high hardness could sharping sharp," which sounds pretty impressive, but it's not the same as claiming 70 HRC.

 

[rbscebu]

I can't find anything about 70 hardness at either link, and the aliexpress one explicitly lists hardness at 61-63 HRC. What am I missing?

Granted, the aliexpress link calls it "the high hardness could sharping sharp," which sounds pretty impressive, but it's not the same as claiming 70 HRC.

The AliExpress listing is prepared by their marketing people, without much technical knowledge. Their statement of 61-63 RHC is generic for about all their listings. When in Taiwan a couple of years ago, I had the pleasure to speak with some of the Titan technical people. It was then that I learnt all their blades are hardness tested after heat treatment by the Japanese steel manufacturer. Blades that reach a certain hardness are marked by Titan with the minimum T.H. (tested hardness) number on the blade face. Now this is no guarantee that the manufacturer is honest, however I have had a few of my blades hardness tested and the results are reasonably close to what is marked on the blade's face.

Hardness is not the be-all and end-all of SR blade steel. You also need to consider, inter alia, grain size, inter-granular bonding, toughness and abrasion resistance (and corrosion resistance if that is important to you). Of course, everone has their own preferences.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I found the ACRM-2 unlined and uncapped scale model to be the closest to the GD in actual functionality, and in bang for the buck. @rbscebu you do realize that AliExpress, your (I am guessing) source for Titans, also lists Gold Dollars, right? You could put together a 7 day set of GD66 or GD100 for chimp change. IMHO they are more consistent, more predictable, and once you tame the heel, more hone-able than the Titans and definitely more value for your dollar. Or Peso. I think I remember you tried the GD 208, but have you tried the P81? It is a pretty sweet razor for the price. Just avoid this seller:

KING Hairdressing Tools CO.,LTD

They will sell you defective crap and good luck getting them to make it right. Saphoo is okay. Feilong is okay. Up You Store is okay. And the factory actually is starting to sell small lots in some models now, on AliBaba.

 

[rbscebu]

I found the ACRM-2 unlined and uncapped scale model to be the closest to the GD in actual functionality, and in bang for the buck. @rbscebu you do realize that AliExpress, your (I am guessing) source for Titans, also lists Gold Dollars, right? You could put together a 7 day set of GD66 or GD100 for chimp change. IMHO they are more consistent, more predictable, and once you tame the heel, more hone-able than the Titans and definitely more value for your dollar. ....

I originally sourced my SR's from Lazada (think SE Asian Amazon). Later I included AliExpress and Alibaba in my sources.

I considered some of the cheaper GD's but, being a timber sort of bloke and thinking that plastic scales was not for me, I settled on a M7DS+1 of GR W59's. I later purchased five GD 208's. I had no problems honing them with their heel, however they confirmed my dislike of plastic scales so I gave 2 away so far and have three more to give to the needy.

I'm about done now with half-hollow Dutch point SR's. After enjoying the exaggerated Spanish point on the W59's, my current intention is to put together a M7DS of timber scaled SR's each with a different point type. I will probably have to grind my own blade points.

Of my five M7DS's, I am going to give one set to my brother in Japan (if he ever starts shaving properly again) and sell another in SE Asia.That will leave me with my Latin, Chinese, and English sets, plus about half a dozen assorted other SR's.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Ah well then. You could rescale in SE Asian tropical hardwoods, or horn.

 

[rbscebu]

QUOTE="Slash McCoy, post: 11184099, member: 30791"]
Ah well then. You could rescale in SE Asian tropical hardwoods, or horn.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, if I can source the pinning materials. I'm looking into that.