Change is inevitable, but we don't have to be happy about it

[luvmysuper]

There are always posts here about change we face in daily life, it's as certain as sunset and sunrise.
Recently, some of those topics have been the size of certain products like candy bars, MWF dropping tallow, and cars being provided without paper copy of an owners manual.
It seems to me that many of these changes occur because the companies producing the product can reduce their cost and increase their profit.
Meaning a decrease in cost but not a decrease in price.
They decrease features, thus cost, without decreasing price rather than increasing pricing to cover the cost of the feature.
I've no issue that a company wants to increase profit, that's why they are in business.
Personally, I would be happy to pay the increased cost involved in getting a full size candy bar, an unreformulated MWF, or a paper copy of an automobile owners manual.
I fear that folks like me are not a majority in a society that wants cheapest cost for their products, and that, in part, is driving some of this.
Would you pay the extra expense to keep some of the features disappearing, or do you think cost is king?

 

[brucered]

Would you pay the extra expense to keep some of the features disappearing, or do you think cost is king?

Yes. I would and do pay more for items. With regards to soaps, yes, I wish they had options for Tallow vs Vegan if they were removing the tallow.

I relate it to things like watch batteries, vinyl records and even soda for 3 examples.

Cheap Asian made batteries are 5-10 times cheaper than German or Swiss and can be purchased at the dollar store, but I opt for ones I have used in the past, are reliable and take weeks to arrive.

Vinyl pressed in Germany is widely regarded as superior, whether my ears can hear it or not, I usually choose that option, even though more expensive.

Soda made with high fructose corn syrup can be had for cheap and doesn't differ much in taste from the same brand soda made with Cane Sugar for 2x the price. I will always choose the Cane option.

A lot of the decision above to purchase the more expensive, slower to deliver, harder to source options, come down to nostalgia, habit and overall sense of getting a product I am familiar with and one I have previous history with.

 

[Lockback]

There are always posts here about change we face in daily life, it's as certain as sunset and sunrise.
Recently, some of those topics have been the size of certain products like candy bars, MWF dropping tallow, and cars being provided without paper copy of an owners manual.
It seems to me that many of these changes occur because the companies producing the product can reduce their cost and increase their profit.
Meaning a decrease in cost but not a decrease in price.
They decrease features, thus cost, without decreasing price rather than increasing pricing to cover the cost of the feature.
I've no issue that a company wants to increase profit, that's why they are in business.
Personally, I would be happy to pay the increased cost involved in getting a full size candy bar, an unreformulated MWF, or a paper copy of an automobile owners manual.
I fear that folks like me are not a majority in a society that wants cheapest cost for their products, and that, in part, is driving some of this.
Would you pay the extra expense to keep some of the features disappearing, or do you think cost is king?

I try to judge each issue individually.
The questions I always ask myself are, "Did this change make the product better?" And, "If so, is the price increase worth it?"
I'm pretty cynical about most changes, particularly if they're popular products with a proven track record. Why change a formula that works? Sometimes it's beyond their power, the result of some government regulation, the vast majority of which are dumb beyond reason. Sometimes it's to increase profit margin. I'm all for profit. Capitalism isn't a charity. But sometimes the price increases appear to far outstrip, say, the inflation rate or the added value.
I think we're seeing a lot of that right now: the inflation rate, fueled by governmental stupidity, has given companies an excuse to raise prices, sometimes well beyond the acceptable rate.
To more directly answer your question, yes, I will pay more for a full-sized candy bar.

 

[AndyPanda]

If Mitchell's offered both the new and old formula, I would pay more to get the tallow formula.

I'd be willing to pay more for a DE89 or R89 or King C. Gillette (etc.) in brass instead of zamak.

I try not to buy anything with high fructose corn syrup - this is really difficult because it's in almost everything. Even things that don't need to be sweetened or don't need nearly as much sweetener as they dump in there. I like cranberry juice and I have to pay more and look harder to find pure cranberry without any sweetener. I can add sugar if needed but I cannot remove Corn Syrup.

Agree on the cheap battery thing -- The Chinese batteries I've "saved money" with have leaked and damaged my gear or at best haven't lasted nearly as long as a quality battery.

That said ... you cannot blindly trust that "you get what you pay for". I shop for a good price with enough quality for the job at hand. A Ferrari will not do any better at running to Home Depot for some plywood.

 

[velocityboy]

There are always lower tier products to choose from for those who don't need or want to pay for premium goods. Taking away key features that makes those premium goods popular creates a problem that can't easily be fixed. You can't regain the premium or exclusive features that were once available only in X by just buying more of Y.

I hate seeing products shrink only for the price to stay the same or even rise. It's like they are hoping that we won't notice but we do. I want my next car to still come with a real spare tire not a can of miracle goo. Not saying I never to for the cheaper option. In fact most times I do. But when I've found a product that has the features and quality I want and am willing to pay for I don't like it when it is lessened to fit in with the rest of the competition.

 

[snowman]

Yes. I would and do pay more for items. With regards to soaps, yes, I wish they had options for Tallow vs Vegan if they were removing the tallow.

I relate it to things like watch batteries, vinyl records and even soda for 3 examples.

Cheap Asian made batteries are 5-10 times cheaper than German or Swiss and can be purchased at the dollar store, but I opt for ones I have used in the past, are reliable and take weeks to arrive.

Vinyl pressed in Germany is widely regarded as superior, whether my ears can hear it or not, I usually choose that option, even though more expensive.

Soda made with high fructose corn syrup can be had for cheap and doesn't differ much in taste from the same brand soda made with Cane Sugar for 2x the price. I will always choose the Cane option.

A lot of the decision above to purchase the more expensive, slower to deliver, harder to source options, come down to nostalgia, habit and overall sense of getting a product I am familiar with and one I have previous history with.

100% agree.

Funny you mentioned soda. Earlier this week I ordered some more from my favorite Soda Company. It’s not available locally in stores so I need to have it shipped by the case. My wife and I share a bottle once in a great while as we both try to limit sugar intake. We treat it as a special after dinner desert. Which is why I don’t mind paying so much for it. I get it from Spring Grove Soda Company, They have one Called Rhu- Berry. It’s Rhubarb Strawberry flavored using cane sugar and on a warm sultry summer evening sitting on the porch it is the BOMB!!!!

 

[brucered]

100% agree.

Funny you mentioned soda. Earlier this week I ordered some more from my favorite Soda Company. It’s not available locally in stores so I need to have it shipped by the case. My wife and I share a bottle once in a great while as we both try to limit sugar intake. We treat it as a special after dinner desert. Which is why I don’t mind paying so much for it. I get it from Spring Grove Soda Company, They have one Called Rhu- Berry. It’s Rhubarb Strawberry flavored using cane sugar and on a warm sultry summer evening sitting on the porch it is the BOMB!!!!

Oh my....that sounds like a good one.

We have a grocery store up here, that carries lots of "micro" brand sodas, funky labels, weird flavours, kooky names. You get to fill a 6pk cardboard case for $10. I usually get one for my bday and fathers day from the kids/wife.

I don't drink beer or alcohol, so micro brewed soda in glass a glass bottle with a bottle cap that I need a bottle opener for, is small my indulgence.

 

[Phoenixkh]

There are always posts here about change we face in daily life, it's as certain as sunset and sunrise.
Recently, some of those topics have been the size of certain products like candy bars, MWF dropping tallow, and cars being provided without paper copy of an owners manual.
It seems to me that many of these changes occur because the companies producing the product can reduce their cost and increase their profit.
Meaning a decrease in cost but not a decrease in price.
They decrease features, thus cost, without decreasing price rather than increasing pricing to cover the cost of the feature.
I've no issue that a company wants to increase profit, that's why they are in business.
Personally, I would be happy to pay the increased cost involved in getting a full size candy bar, an unreformulated MWF, or a paper copy of an automobile owners manual.
I fear that folks like me are not a majority in a society that wants cheapest cost for their products, and that, in part, is driving some of this.
Would you pay the extra expense to keep some of the features disappearing, or do you think cost is king?

I ordered a hard copy manual for our new-to-us 2020 Lexus ES350... they were out of print but I did order one. There is one other alternative: an online site that offers the same manual for $75. I ordered it before we left for Bali back at the beginning of April. I figured... well, that is that.

When we got back, there was a pretty heavy package among the others strewn around the dining room. When I opened it: a brand new printed manual shipped to us at no cost from Lexus. I was a bit surprised.

I do agree: change is inevitable but we can still treat each other with respect and kindness. That might be all we can do but it sure can make our lives more enjoyable.

I'm not sure how much influence we have against the decisions made on a corporate level. Protests and/or boycotts used to affect things. I wonder if they can be effect these days. Even with all our technology, organizing humans to do anything positive on a large scale seems to be like herding cats.

I could be wrong... and would love to have someone prove the deficiencies in my way of thinking on the topic.

 

[never-stop-learning]

I pay extra for quality, customer service, performance and results. That means that I rarely go with the low cost supplier/provider.

 

[DesertIguana]

Two kinds of change, for the better, for the worst.

Why change anything that is good, great, or super?

 

[Eshebert]

Getting what you pay for is not always the case anymore. As a consumer, now more than every, you should do your homework. I will admit, I am guilty of overpaying for a product that I enjoy, I believe in the free market and will happily pay a fair price for quality products.

The reality is that everyone's financial situation is different. Those cheap Asian products that everyone complains about. About 90% of the world does not have the means to pay for name brand products, much less luxury, Artisan or Custom goods. Those cheap goods enable most of the world to have a better quality of life, its a pretty great thing in my opinion. Asia is filling the labor gap because nobody in the western world wants to work anymore. I did not read this on the internet or watch it on the news, I live it ever day.

To the OP point, I will continue to support small business and artisan suppliers, but that's because I can.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

There are always posts here about change we face in daily life, it's as certain as sunset and sunrise.
Recently, some of those topics have been the size of certain products like candy bars, MWF dropping tallow, and cars being provided without paper copy of an owners manual.
It seems to me that many of these changes occur because the companies producing the product can reduce their cost and increase their profit.
Meaning a decrease in cost but not a decrease in price.
They decrease features, thus cost, without decreasing price rather than increasing pricing to cover the cost of the feature.
I've no issue that a company wants to increase profit, that's why they are in business.
Personally, I would be happy to pay the increased cost involved in getting a full size candy bar, an unreformulated MWF, or a paper copy of an automobile owners manual.
I fear that folks like me are not a majority in a society that wants cheapest cost for their products, and that, in part, is driving some of this.
Would you pay the extra expense to keep some of the features disappearing, or do you think cost is king?

It’s an interesting topic and something we see quite frequently. I have a different opinion, which is that the profit motive, when given excessive priority and applied with only a short-term view, causes these changes and results in a continual deterioration of product and service quality. My conclusion from this is that if we desire better products and better value we have to always look for new entrants rather than established ones, since the new entrants have a motive to build a customer base rather than eke out incremental returns from an already successful business. Or look to a family owned business (BMW, Porsche, LVMH, Nike are good examples of large family businesses) where the owners have a long term motivation.

I’ll explain what I mean. I am as convinced as ever that good business is pretty simple - you produce a superior product, look after your customers, motivate your employees, and your business will be successful and enduring as a result. Focus your business on doing well what it is there to do, and the financial outcomes are just consequences. I know this still works because I spent most of my career with such a company - a 170 year old global institution, one of the biggest and most valuable companies in the world, and one that always prioritises its reputation above financial outcomes - in thought and in deed. It compensates employees based on 50% business results, 25% customer service, and 25% employee satisfaction. This company achieved >10% revenue growth and >20% EPS growth every single quarter for ten years - not even Google has done that - and they did it without ever focusing employees on those measures - because those are only outcomes, they are not measures that improve a business.

Unfortunately if you instead assign 100% of your focus to shareholder returns, rather than assigning significant importance to your products, customers or employees, then you can achieve greater profit growth. But only in the short term. You can cut quality, which reduces costs, and may even increase revenues because customers need to replace their worn out or broken products. It’s great for shareholders if they are trading shares (as most shareholders do today) rather than investing in the business long term. You can keep doing this for a surprisingly long time because customers do not quickly switch their loyalties - more fool them. And when it all goes south, the shareholders who benefited from the short-term returns won’t be the shareholders any more, so they lose nothing when the business fails.

We can all decry a system that incentivises short term, unsustainable financial returns over good business. But unless we stop being loyal to bad companies and start looking for better products and services, we are part of the problem. If your favourite brand starts making an inferior product, drop them right away and buy something better. Don’t be emotional about it - they did it because you (the customer) are not a priority for them any more. There are always loads of new businesses making something better and eager to please the customers who come to them.

 

[Andris83]

shrinkflation is the worst. I refuse to buy shrinkflated products, like a 450ml can of beer, or 90g chocolate bar. pathetic...
I find it intelligence insulting.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

shrinkflation is the worst. I refuse to buy shrinkflated products, like a 450ml can of beer, or 90g chocolate bar. pathetic...
I find it intelligence insulting.

I agree. It’s not the inflation - we can understand that - it’s the dishonesty and being taken for a fool.

Integrity or money…money or integrity. A dilemma as old as the hills. What’s your price?

In my opinion integrity is just integrity. Money doesn’t come into it and, in fact, you can only really exhibit integrity when it is against your own interest to do so. Everyone has integrity when it costs nothing.

 

[snowman]

Oh my....that sounds like a good one.

We have a grocery store up here, that carries lots of "micro" brand sodas, funky labels, weird flavours, kooky names. You get to fill a 6pk cardboard case for $10. I usually get one for my bday and fathers day from the kids/wife.

I don't drink beer or alcohol, so micro brewed soda in glass a glass bottle with a bottle cap that I need a bottle opener for, is small my indulgence.

That sounds awesome! I wish I had something like that near me. I hear ya about the glass bottle / bottle cap. Besides glass being better for flavor, something about the ritual of removing the metal cap from a glass bottle with an opener takes me back to childhood days. We only go through about 24 bottles a year, and quite a bit of that is shared with guests. So when we do have a soda its going to be a darn good one and worth every penny! Next time I'm cracking one open I'll face north, raise the bottle, and give you a hardy cheers Bruce!

 

[Doc4]

Would you pay the extra expense to keep some of the features disappearing, or do you think cost is king?

Appliances.

I would certainly pay more for a stove, fridge, washer and dryer that are

1. built to last,
2. built to be repaired, and
3. have a ready supply of repair parts for years to come.

Anyone make those nowadays? Anyone? ... anyone??

 

[Ckmaui]

For sure depends

car manual example I am fine without it but all my cars have them German thing maybe ?
so in that car manual if they could shave $75 off the price and not include I would be fine without the manual and save the $ if they charged the same and did not include then that kinda irks me !

For soaps as example I just try to find what works best cost is a factor unless the other product was truly superior of course then might have to consider paying more
as example if a 4oz soap is say $10 or $20 or $40
if the $10 one was great and almost every bit as good as the $20 but the $20 had a better scent and again was a tiny touch better I would just get the $20 but $40 for a tiny touch better than the $20 I would pass on or maybe compromise unless it was truly hands down better
that said if the $10 and $20 were dead even I would just buy the $10 even if say the container was not quite up to the $20 as that will not effect the performance

lucky this does not seem to be happening to me as we have so many great products

my thing is when companies cut the corner or change what does not need to be for some idiot “social” reason !
Then I tend to just say goodbye out of my vote with the $ thing and move on

 

[The Count of Merkur Cristo]

Phil:

...and even when we go grocery buying...it takes twice as long (having to read every products 'nutrition facts').

In a nutshell (agreeing with all of you), , the Mrs. and I pay for quality, performance and customer service, (you get what you
pay for).

"There is nothing permanent except change". Heraclitus

 

[RSC]

I just bought a new GM vehicle, and it came with a printed manual.

 

[Doc4]

I ordered a hard copy manual for our new-to-us 2020 Lexus ES350... they were out of print but I did order one. There is one other alternative: an online site that offers the same manual for $75. I ordered it before we left for Bali back at the beginning of April. I figured... well, that is that.

When we got back, there was a pretty heavy package among the others strewn around the dining room. When I opened it: a brand new printed manual shipped to us at no cost from Lexus. I was a bit surprised.

car manual example I am fine without it but all my cars have them German thing maybe ?

I just bought a new GM vehicle, and it came with a printed manual.

I only buy vehicles with automatic transmission instead.