CBN or Diamond?

[Dave Sl8r]

Since I can’t get any feedback on the Jende Nanocloth strops. I bought a few to play with. The honeycomb structure on top of the acrylic block is what interest me.

After some research, I'm leaning towards using CNB, but I don't have any real experience with either. Unless it is one of the secret ingredients in one of the compounds or pastes I’ve recently purchased.

From what I understand. CBN gives a smoother finish?

For those of you familiar with the two, what are your thoughts on the different products?

 

[ajduplessis]

I find CBN smoother compared to diamond, but its very subjective. With that said in my book natural stones represent smooth, not synthetics.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Once you are up to .1u diamond on lapped balsa, I really don't think you can get perceptibly smoother. If you stop at .25u (which is a terrible idea, BTW) you may find the CBN to be smoother. Ditto for .5u.

I do think you would find properly set up balsa to work better than the nanocloth thing, but I can't be absolutely certain.

 

[Robert Anderson]

I have used .1u diamond and .1u cbn. I can't really feel any difference.

 

[Dave Sl8r]

Once you are up to .1u diamond on lapped balsa, I really don't think you can get perceptibly smoother. If you stop at .25u (which is a terrible idea, BTW)

Why is it terrible? Too sharp?

 

[Slash McCoy]

Why is it terrible? Too sharp?

.25u generally creates an edge that is not very gentle to the face. If you continue to .1u you will find the edge to be not only crazy sharp, (if you do it right) but also very smooth. Same for .5u. Don't stop there. Go to .25u and then .1u or else just leave it at 1u (film) or 12k (synthetic stone) or your favorite natural finisher.

BTW a lot of new guys confuse .1u with 1u. Yes that itty bitty dot is important.

 

[Dave Sl8r]

Once you are up to .1u diamond on lapped balsa, I really don't think you can get perceptibly smoother. If you stop at .25u (which is a terrible idea, BTW) you may find the CBN to be smoother. Ditto for .5u.

.25u generally creates an edge that is not very gentle to the face. If you continue to .1u you will find the edge to be not only crazy sharp, (if you do it right) but also very smooth. Same for .5u. Don't stop there. Go to .25u and then .1u or else just leave it at 1u (film) or 12k (synthetic stone) or your favorite natural finisher.

BTW a lot of new guys confuse .1u with 1u. Yes that itty bitty dot is important.

OK, now I am confused.
So let me see if I have this right?
12k or so synthetic stone, hard natural finishers (Jnats, Coticules, Arks etc..) = good shave.
1.u or approximately 22,000 grit = good shave
.5u or approx. 46,000 grit = not so good a shave
.25 or approx. 96,000 grit = not so good a shave
But, when done right,
.1u or approx. 253, 000 grit Hyper-keen, exfoliating anything in its path = a good shave again?

Did I get that right?

 

[Slash McCoy]

OK, now I am confused.
So let me see if I have this right?
12k or so synthetic stone, hard natural finishers (Jnats, Coticules, Arks etc..) = good shave.
1.u or approximately 22,000 grit = good shave
.5u or approx. 46,000 grit = not so good a shave
.25 or approx. 96,000 grit = not so good a shave
But, when done right,
.1u or approx. 253, 000 grit Hyper-keen, exfoliating anything in its path = a good shave again?

Did I get that right?

That's about the size of it. You will find many others who agree after trying sub micron edges and then upgrading to .1u. There is a real sour spot in the available lineup of sub micron grit abrasives but once you get down to .1u it seems you are past that. Going even finer seems to not give a lot of perceptible improvement. I think at .1u you must be getting very close to the edge's ability to improve. Or else we can barely tell the difference in the shave due to perceptive inadequacy. I have some .025u (25 nanometer) diamond spray and if I go a couple hundred laps I still see no great improvement if I really did a good job with the .1u. If I don't quite hit it with the .1u then the .025u seems to give maybe a tiny bit of improvement but no more than just going back and starting over with the diamond/balsa progression. YMMV of course but after many attempts to get the .025u diamond to show me what it can do, it hasn't shown me much at all. The .1u is the bee's knees, but you can't jump straight from a finishing stone to .1u, which is about 200k grit depending on which scale you are using.

I have some .35u paste and I have been thinking about trying a two stage progression instead of the usual 3 stage progression but haven't had time lately with trying to get orders out, managing the honey-do list, my day trading, building stuff, refitting the big boat and trying to get rid of both of our little boats, etc etc. But I do think it might work.

I will say this, though. If you are unable or unwilling to modify your shave technique, you might not like a .1u edge, either. The average person shaving with this edge for the first time finds the cutting power almost overwhelming. With a well done .1u balsa edge, you will need to use the barest minimum shave angle and always be very diligent with stretching. In other words, it will shave like a shavette with a very good blade in it. You can butcher your face or you can adapt and get a very good one pass shave. Even the humble Gold Dollar with its big clunky bevel angle shaves quite good when you set a proper bevel and then follow The Method precisely.

 

[Dave Sl8r]

^^^
Well shoot, I guess I need to order more stuff.

 

[RayClem]

If you are using nanocloth as the substrate, you might be better off with CBN. The cubic crystaline structure of CBN is not as aggressive as diamond. The reason that diamond works well on balsa is that the crystals become imbedded in the grain structure of the balsa reducing the aggressiveness of the abrasive. I use 0.5, 0.25 and 0.1 micron CBN on nanocloth and it works quite well, but I have not tried to compare it to similar setup with diamond on balsa. Either can produce a wonderfully sharp, yet smooth edge if used properly.

 

[Slash McCoy]

^^^
Well shoot, I guess I need to order more stuff.

Was that ever even a question? You ALWAYS need to order more stuff.

 

[Dave Sl8r]

Wish the Wifey would come around to our way of thinking.

 

[RayClem]

Wish the Wifey would come around to our way of thinking.

Being addicted to razors, soaps, brushes, etc. is less costly and far less harmful that some of the other things people get addicted to. If you are home shaving or organizing your shave den, your wife knows you aren't running around getting into trouble.

 

[Dave Sl8r]

^^^
So true, she has her makeup, beauty products, shoe, and purses, I have shaving, and sporty cars.
Who’d of thought there’s about 700 different shades of red lipstick?