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CBN .125 vs .10

So I have been playing with CBN .5 & .125 for the past couple of weeks, after finishing on a vintage Thuringian. What are the benefits of going to .10 after .125, seems like a big jump?

At .125 I am experiencing what feels almost like razor burn. Not quite burn, but just slight discomfort.

My face cannot take diamond and I was stropping on chrome ox and MAAS polish on a fine weave poly strop, with comfortable results and nice polish on the bevel and edge. I have tried linen, balsa, paper, leather, felt, foam, and poly/nylon, with foam paddle and fine weave poly/nylon giving the best results.

Those of you Schwartzers, (with the t-shirt…ok, you don’t have to have the shirt) who have gone past .125, my question is, are the result worth the extra cost and effort?

I feel like I might be at the limit and will probably order it anyway, but wanted your experienced input.

H
 
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Kentos

Wiped out at 25
If you get discomfort at .125 going to .1 or smaller likely won't change much.

As you progress down to smaller and smaller micron size, the edge gets keener, and you have to adjust the technique a bit.

I personally go down to .05 poly with good results, but if I apply too much pressure I pay;). On the otherhand a less keen blade isn't comfortable for me either, so I prefer the former.

How many laps on .125 do you do? Have you tried hanging leather yet?
 
one suggestion i can give... i use 14k 50k 100k and 200k sprays and pastes mixed on my cloth strops....

let a little slack in the strop... it convexes the edge a bit and keeps the sharpness but tones down the harsh....

i also will use crox or ceox to back off the keenness of some of my edges.... *(this is a must do on my CMON blackie 7/8ths... if i don't it will cut me to pieces.... hands down the sharpest razor i have.... last time i shaved with it i was straight off the stones then to leather.... it sank 3 times in a row when i placed it to my cheek.... i had to ceox it so i could shave with it....)
 
I have been doing 15-20 laps on foam paddle at .5 and 10-15 on a foam paddle or fine weave nylon strop with .125 cbn with spritz of water and some pressure. I will try .125 on a leather strop tomorrow and see what the results are.

I was thinking of the .10 CBN just for grins, actually I am impressed with the .125 and the shave is good. I thought the jump from .125 to .10 would be too big a jump and render the shave too harsh... for me.

Thanks

H
 

Kentos

Wiped out at 25
I actually can do laps all day on .1 and the shaves are nice and smooth. I never liked it on poly or cotton as the "rough" weave seemed to leave a less than smooth edge. On leather or felt its nice and smooth...smoother on leather for me.

I did this awhile ago, and since then I have learned a lot of what I need out of an edge...but it should still give some idea of what I was doing.
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ce-Horsehide-and-Paragon-Steerhide?highlight=
 
after reading all the good threads on cbn i decided to try 0.125 on nano cloth..not i've only tryed it 3 x on shave ready puma and a s/s dovo and another vintage razors.. all razors were shaving super smooth of my coticule..(dilucot method as all ways)

i tryed 10x strokes on the puma.. i did'nt notise any differance .i tryed another 10 x strokes no differance except i felt i was loosing that buttery coticule edge ..I went right up to 50 laps? now i was expecting harsh edge ..the edge was not harsh and the shave was still very good , with the loss of that buttery la vainette edge i had in the begining. i tryed this on all 3 razors and i never got the wow factor from cbn spray. i carn't see it getting much use now as it does'nt feel as nice as the coticule finish... i never had that much look with most sprays .. the only paste i have had nice finish with is cronium oxide on leather strop . (ti's brand of crox)

every one's experiances will be differant this is mine so far , so just go with your own experiance . i don't think the .10 would be nesacerry

gary
 

Kentos

Wiped out at 25
IMO

I think it is good to note, as Gary mentions, that using sprays and pastes appear to only help people who desire something more in their edges. It seems people who love the edges they already get prior to using sprays get mostly Ho-Hum results, or even bad results when the edge becomes too keen/rough/harsh/sharp/whatever.
Conversely, if you feel an edge coming off the stone isn't quite where you want it, sprays can help get you there in the interim while you refine your honing technique. In some cases, yours truly included, sprays are an integral part of the process of getting a blade razor sharp even when technique off the stones is maxed, or close to being maxed, out.
 
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Yeah, I'm in da shirt club :biggrin:

There is a bunch of threads re: these sprays
Search around in the honing forum.

I have done extensive testing with almost all of Kens sprays.

There is a lot to be said & a lot has been reported from myself & others.

One thing I cannot stress enough is that you can expect them to have magical properties.
For example you edge must have a thoruogh groudn to stand on.
You cannot expect it to work wonder from a natural coticule or Thuringian with scratch-patetrns all over the places (like all naturals have)& then jump to a compound that is atleast 10 times as fine...

So, onto your question;
The 0.1 & 0.125 CBN is pretty much interchangeable.

I have had a feeling that the 0.125µ is slightly "smoother" but the more I work with them, the less of a difference I find.
Basically, in your case, you will not see a difference with going to .1
What might make a difference is the evenf iner poly diamond sprays, the 0.050 & 0.025µ.
However, if the edge isn't perfect at 0.125µ, you can't expect magic to happen with an even finer compound.

My own progression with the best results from these pastes are Shapton Pros up to 15K, then 0.75 & 0.125 or 0.1 CBN & sometimes 0.025µ poly diamond.

You can try a number of thing after you Thuringian;
Add some "coarser" CBN like 0.75 which should set you up fine & might just give a cleaner edge with less of that burn.
Even CrOx on balsa might be good in between the Thuri & the CBN.
Push it as far as you can on the Thuri, add soem 10-15 laps on CrOx pasted balsa & then 20-30 superlight laps on CBN.

Also, when stropping highly refined edges, you need to be more careful when using your regular strop.
A sharper/finer edge is also more fragile, so NO pressure & not to many laps.

Light convexing on a pasted hanging strop is sometimes a good thing & really makes you hit the edge of the edge.
I don't personally like pasted hanging strops much, I want more control over my edge then they offer, but I know it works for some.
 

Honed

Thanks for the insight. I am getting very good shaveable edges just off the Thüringen and am experimenting with CBN for probably the same reasons you guys are, looking for max edge.

So normally after a synthetic work up from 1,4, 8 or 10k, Norton or Chosera, I take a finishing stone, Chinese, Black or Translucent Ark, Thuringen, Coticule or 16K superstone then Chrome Oxide on a foam paddle, then MAAS or Flitz pasted paddle, then to CBN .5 and .125.

With MAAS or Flitz I am able to get bevels that look similar to .5 CBN on foam, not quite but close just a few errant stria and a high polished bevel and a smooth comfortable shave. I have been able to get .125 CBN with almost no stria on the bevel, those are the shaves I feel are on the edge and what prompted this thread.

I do have the diamonds and have gone from the stones to .25 Diamonds then Chrome Oxide and the rest with about the same results. Actually the Polish Paddles, Mass and Flitz seem to give the best prep for CBN. I have also been able to get an edge to a weeper state with just the MAAS paddles with 50+ laps.

I came across some interesting fabric similar to felt but stronger, that I hopefully will make some hanging strops out of today and test CBN on. I think it may perform better than foam or paper. I will post some photos later.

My other question is after CBN .125 are you stropping on, linen and or leather? Seems like either or both may be harsher than the CBN. What do you do post shave, strop again on CBN .125?

With a MAAS edge I was stropping on a fine weave poly/nylon without creating more stria on the bevel yet cleaning the bevel, polishing and realigning the edge, post shave.

Thanks

H
 
In my opinion, take it as you may. Anything past 0.5um is a waste of time.


There. I said it.


Again.
You are stuck like an old 78 rpm record :biggrin:

I mainly use either balsa or a substrate called nano-cloth. Most consistent results for me. Not a big fan at all off "slack" stropping.
 
You are stuck like an old 78 rpm record :biggrin:

I mainly use either balsa or a substrate called nano-cloth. Most consistent results for me. Not a big fan at all off "slack" stropping.

If the placebo of nanogrit powders makes you feel like you are getting a better shave, then that's great.

But often tales of uber grit are accompanied by quotes such as:
At .125 I am experiencing what feels almost like razor burn. Not quite burn, but just slight discomfort.

I'd love to see a quality scope image of an edge progression from 0.5um on up to 0.005um or whatever the max is. I suspect very little if any improvement is to be noticed in reality.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that the natural stone guys are wrong, the uber-grit nanu-nanu grit guys are mistaken, and I am in sole possession of Correct Honing Wisdom.


P.S.- I just finished off a nice gin & tonic so I may have to modify this post at a future date.
 
I get the best results by using crox after my finisher(Frankonian) and then strop on leather and then using the diamond spray on nano cloth with .050 spray.
 
I'd love to see a quality scope image of an edge progression from 0.5um on up to 0.005um or whatever the max is. I suspect very little if any improvement is to be noticed in reality.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that the natural stone guys are wrong, the uber-grit nanu-nanu grit guys are mistaken, and I am in sole possession of Correct Honing Wisdom.

I have been doing some high magnification evaluation of blade edges (that Guard blade and me have had several personal moments late at night with it on the scope platform). I think that you are right - that you won't see much difference. However, I think you might FEEL differences. The scope shots don't necessarily translate to smoothness or even to roughness.

Here is a Guard blade after 13 shaves. It looks rough - but it shaved like a dream.

$guardImage1.jpg


CHW transcripts are held in my repository and I note that you are only cum laude. I, on the other hand, am summa cum laude dweeb. :lol::lol:
 
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I have been doing some high magnification evaluation of blade edges (that Guard blade and me have had several personal moments late at night with it on the scope platform). I think that you are right - that you won't see much difference. However, I think you might FEEL differences. The scope shots don't necessarily translate to smoothness or even to roughness.

Here is a Guard blade after 13 shaves. It looks rough - but it shaved like a dream.

View attachment 257274


CHW transcripts are held in my repository and I note that you are only cum laude. I, on the other hand, am summa cum laude dweeb. :lol::lol:
Yikes, that looks like a saw.
 
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