Captain's Choice is the WORST shaving soap that I've optimized so far

[StillShaving]

Yes.



No. What I said is that the optimization process for CC involved six shaves. (I stopped with a precision of 4 with respect to the water-to-soap ratio, which is higher than my usual precision of 1, because of the lather performance and the fact that zeroing in more on the precise optimum for me would have hardly changed the optimum lather performance.) There is no predetermined amount of shaves for an optimization process. Sometimes it takes more shaves and sometimes it takes less shaves. I've gotten more efficient with optimization, so I'm somewhat quicker than I used to be. Nowadays, an optimization with around ten shaves is fairly normal for me.

Thanks for continuing to reply. I will stop commenting soon as I don't want you to feel that I am hounding you. I am trying to close the gap in my understandings and perceptions when compared to your review. That may be largely due to meaning of a few key terms.

Specifically the word airy was used more than once to describe the lather. That is practically unusable lather in my experience. But a condition that is rectified 100% of the time by using more product (again in my experience). Yet you are very confident that you are using the right amount of product in the final tests.

Second you state that you are optimizing lathers in just 6 attempts. I find it difficult to truly optimize a lather once a week/month. Much less be confident that I have arrived at the ideal process with a new soap in 6 attempts (especially if the initial lathers were a complete fail producing an airy lather).

But my perceptions are a lot less fine tuned than many members of the forum. In that while I know which soaps I like relatively speaking I could never rank order them. Even if forced to keep only five soaps it would not be the best performing ones but include a few more different from each other.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Thanks for continuing to reply. I will stop commenting soon as I don't want you to feel that I am hounding you. I am trying to close the gap in my understandings and perceptions when compared to your review. That may be largely due to meaning of a few key terms.

It's no problem, @StillShaving. I'll try and clear things up.

Specifically the word airy was used more than once to describe the lather. That is practically unusable lather in my experience. But a condition that is rectified 100% of the time by using more product (again in my experience). Yet you are very confident that you are using the right amount of product in the final tests.

As stated in the optimization details section of my review, "Lather was visibly airy for all tested water-to-soap ratios except 6." One problem that I found with CC soap was that it "exploded", producing airy lather for normal hydration levels and above. I used 1.32 g of soap with the water-to-soap ratio of 6, but most of the shave had a lot of friction. Using higher water-to-soap ratios, which resulted in using less soap and more water, resulted in more slickness up to a point. The optimum had a relatively large amount of water compared to soap because that's what I felt was best for me with that soap.

Second you state that you are optimizing lathers in just 6 attempts. I find it difficult to truly optimize a lather once a week/month. Much less be confident that I have arrived at the ideal process with a new soap in 6 attempts (especially if the initial lathers were a complete fail producing an airy lather).

I optimized CC soap in six shaves, but that is less than normal. Usually, my optimizations take around ten shaves or so. Because of the performance, I cut the process short and felt fine not fine-tuning the optimum like I normally would. If I weren't measuring soap and water masses with a 0.01 g resolution scale and building exact lathers in a bowl with an initially dry synthetic brush, then I would be hard-pressed to optimize products like I'm currently doing.

 

[dmshaver]

Wow! I don't know how to respond.

Gentlemen, please!

 

[ackvil]

It is interesting to see the diversity of opinion on this topic.

I guess I am lucky or something like that. I can get a decent lather from every soap I have tried with only two exceptions. The first one was an artesian soapmaker from Key West Florida. My wife and I were visiting Key West and she spotted this soap and candle store. The owner made her own soaps and she claimed one was for shaving. It turned out it was not a shaving soap but a bath soap. The other soap was the modern Williams. It took me many attempts to get that soap right. For a long time it dried up on my face. When I started using it daily it began to work.

I use all my soaps by feel and observation. I don't measure how much water I add or how much soap I use. I don't use the amount of time I spend making lather since for me it is by feel. I guess being a traditional shaver for more than 50 years gives me a different perspective on things.

As for Captain's Choice soap, I found that it responds to making lather very similar to other non-tallow soaps. I take a damp brush and load my brush. When the brush is completely covered by soap I take it to my face and work the lather. I may add some water to the tips of my brush but don't always add water. I tend to favor larger knot brushes so my brushes are generally loaded with quite a bit of soap. I have never tried the Bay Rum flavor of CC choice since I am not a fan of Bay Rum. However, I have tried the Sandalwood and Lime and got an excellent lather that did not dry out. Rather, it gave me a nice, smooth shave. One other thing: I dampen my face in between each pass and this may help.

Soaps can be a controversial topic. Some love MWF and some hate it. Some love Cella and some don't. Some like Tabac and some don't. Some love Williams and some don't. Some like Sterling and some don't. That's what makes traditional shaving so interesting.

 

[muzichead]

Its interesting that there have been 20 soaps that have been tested so far, yet its this soap that everyone seems to have a problem with the results!! Would the public outcry have been the same if it was further up on the list, say 12-15th, or is it more that its 20th out of 20 so far? Maybe the next soap will test worst and CC won't be last.

I have only shaved with 3 brands of soap in the last 2 yrs. That being Stirling, Proraso, and Mystic Waters. Not that Proraso was bad but I just never replaced the tub I emptied, I just thought I might work my way through the 6 tubs of Stirling that I have going at the time. I only had samples of 3 different Mystic Waters soaps and found all 3 of them were unusable to me. I tried everything with them and just couldn't get them to make usable lather so I gave away the samples and moved on. I use Stirling exclusively. I just find it very easy and quick to work up a great lather that doesn't dry out or disappear before my pass is complete. I also find that when I do lather it up I seem to have enough for at least a 5 pass shave if I needed to.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

I use all my soaps by feel and observation. I don't measure how much water I add or how much soap I use. I don't use the amount of time I spend making lather since for me it is by feel.

I'd also add that sometimes it seems to take (me) a different amount of water, time and effort, to end up with exactly the same performance as the day before, week before, or month before.

 

[ackvil]

I'd also add that sometimes it seems to take (me) a different amount of water, time and effort, to end up with exactly the same performance as the day before, week before, or month before.

I agree. Even the brush is a factor. Today I used a Paladin El Dorado brush. Yesterday I used a B&B Essential Boar. Today I loaded the brush with P&C San Francesco soap and made lather in half the time than when I used the Boar in the same soap. Plus, yesterday I had to dip the bristles in water while shaving.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

I agree. Even the brush is a factor. Today I used a Paladin El Dorado brush. Yesterday I used a B&B Essential Boar. Today I loaded the brush with P&C San Francesco soap and made lather in half the time than when I used the Boar in the same soap. Plus, yesterday I had to dip the bristles in water while shaving.

Totally! I discovered last week, that my boar will neither bowl lather nor face lather a cream, to anywhere near the same level that I can get with my synthetic. I'd already discovered that with shave sticks, although this boar isn't as dreadful with shavesticks as my last boar was. Even when using the same brush, it seems adjustments need to be made.

 

[johnwick]

Totally! I discovered last week, that my boar will neither bowl lather nor face lather a cream, to anywhere near the same level that I can get with my synthetic. I'd already discovered that with shave sticks, although this boar isn't as dreadful with shavesticks as my last boar was. Even when using the same brush, it seems adjustments need to be made.

I would argue that brushes are the biggest “X” factor of all! Crazy how much different a boar reacts to a soap than say, a synthetic (for me). Makes a much bigger difference than water quality, bowl vs. face, etc. IMHO.

Most of us, myself included, have many many brushes. That can make it hard to dial in something. But I love the variety nonetheless, even if it results in less than perfect lathers from time to time!

 

[AimlessWanderer]

I would argue that brushes are the biggest “X” factor of all! Crazy how much different a boar reacts to a soap than say, a synthetic (for me). Makes a much bigger difference than water quality, bowl vs. face, etc. IMHO.

Most of us, myself included, have many many brushes. That can make it hard to dial in something. But I love the variety nonetheless, even if it results in less than perfect lathers from time to time!

I have three brushes, and only use two. Boar for loading harder soaps and face lathering. Synthetic for bowl lathering cream, or face lathering shave sticks. Any more than that would add more variables than I care to negotiate (even though I realise that I migh not own the best possible brush for any given circumstance). I'm one of those nutters who only uses one soap at a time too

 

[REV579]

I would argue that brushes are the biggest “X” factor of all! Crazy how much different a boar reacts to a soap than say, a synthetic (for me). Makes a much bigger difference than water quality, bowl vs. face, etc. IMHO.

Most of us, myself included, have many many brushes. That can make it hard to dial in something. But I love the variety nonetheless, even if it results in less than perfect lathers from time to time!

So true. When I went through the synthetic brush pass-around box, I had different experiences making lather while using the same soap. I'll add that most of my brushes perform differently from the other, which is why I have more than a few, and why so many are offered.
Had my best Proraso lather, by far, this morning...and used a different brush than I have ever used with it. Proraso isn't my favorite, but this does have me re-thinking Proraso.

 

[Esox]

Proraso isn't my favorite, but this does have me re-thinking Proraso.

Proraso is a pretty good soap. Its right there with Stirling for me.

 

[Racquet]

My only request is that you guy's don't like what I like and please don't dislike what I dislike.
Thank you

 

[FarmerTan]

My only request is that you guy's don't like what I like and please don't dislike what I dislike.
Thank you

Amen.

 

[Villalobos]

Mass hysteria+argumentum ad populum

 

[StillShaving]

I learned from @johnwick that my table does not show up well with Tapatalk and browsers on phones. I checked my phone and saw one of the problems. So, here is a picture version of the performance ranking table. Please let me know what you think of the content and if the picture is being rendered well. You should be able to click on or touch the picture to bring up the full-size image and pan around it. Thanks.

Yes this table is more readable on my smartphone. In future posts you may want to use the same format for posting the numbers table presented on page one, as many of the columns are not visible on my smartphone.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Yes this table is more readable on my smartphone. In future posts you may want to use the same format for posting the numbers table presented on page one, as many of the columns are not visible on my smartphone.

Exactly. I have to fully convert to pictures. Tables as pictures.

 

[FarmerTan]

Mass hysteria+argumentum ad populum

Now you're trying to confuse me with Latin! As if the numbers weren't hard enough for me. Math is hard!

 

[StillShaving]

Exactly. I have to fully convert to pictures. Tables as pictures.

That is unfortunate, as having text is arguably better. I wonder if the wiki markup could be tweaked somehow (a different or extra parameter) to allow horizontal scrolling, though I don't have any specific suggestion as to how.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

That is unfortunate, as having text is arguably better. I wonder if the wiki markup could be tweaked somehow (a different or extra parameter) to allow horizontal scrolling, though I don't have any specific suggestion as to how.

I know, but that's the way it is. It's okay. Pictures will work. An advantage is that I can make the tables look exactly the way that I want. I lose the sorting functionality, but the BB code never sorted correctly, anyway!