Can't get good lather. Need Help.

[Timeclo]

I didn't expect to get so many responses! Thank you all for taking the time to try to help me with this issue and especially to Timeclo for going to the trouble of making a video, I really appreciate that.

Regarding Timeclo's video: I tried a practice lather after watching your video and I must say I think I may have made some progress. Cella has always been more problematic than some of the other products I own, but after following your instructions I think I got a decent lather although it did still seem quite airy to me. I will try again later and use it to shave with to see how well it performs.

I made another practice lather using TOBS Sandalwood. I placed 3 grams of product in the bowl, sprinkled it with a few drops of water and squeezed the excess water out of the brush. I added a few drops of water every 30 seconds. After 5 minutes or so this is the result:

View attachment 1123533

View attachment 1123537

This lather seems too airy to me, what do you think? Did I use too much water or not enough? Surely I used enough product. Maybe I am swirling the brush too vigourously or using too much pressure?
The thing is I really have no "feel" for the lather. I don't see the lather responding to the water I am adding or the way I swirl the brush. The lather looks the same after 2 minutes as it does after 5 minutes, airy, foamy, bubbly and not very slick.

It looks like too little product or too much water. Try adding more product and adding less water.

That said, you can still shave with that. It looks slick and hydrated but won't have the thick volume. Volume isn't really a key factor in the shave but it's enjoyable to build and look at.

Also, your water might be really hard or that your boar needs to break in more. A lot of factors that goes into lathering but hope you figure it out.

 

[samhain666]

I didn't bother to read the response but I am telling you if yu can't get lather from palmolive cream you are the problem. Sorry to be harsh.

Almond sized dollop and a minute od two switling around is enough. But I don't really liek vream so someone else should help here, I will focus on pucks.

2-3 minutes loading like hating and 10 minutes beating up lather? You are overworking everything here. With too much product you will NEVER get good lather and vice versa.

If loading from a puck swirl lightly damp brush until paste is forming. Add few drops and swirl more to get brush loaded but you need max a minute of it. Then go to face and occasinally drop some water in. Don't worry if lather is dry, you can always add water. More important is to make quality creamy consistency. You thin it out later. And don't bother hydrating lather to last the whole shave. Just "refresh" lather on face with moist lather on brush. Don't be affraid to quicly flick it under tap and trasfer that on face.

 

[musicman1951]

Your water might be the problem. Distilled water is very cheap and readily available if you suspect your water.

My impression is that you have far too little product. Really - not enough. The SOC boar is a great brush and generally loads fairly quickly.

If the brush is too dry it will take a very long time to load. If it's too wet it will also take a long time (because you can't splay the brush at all) and will make a big mess (but easy to rinse off). But there are lots of variations on how wet the brush should be, and it doesn't matter as long as you load enough soap. I get the brush as wet as possible and give it two fairly gentle vertical shakes. Some people give it a gentle squeeze.

I put a little pressure on the brush when I load. The brush splays a bit, but I'm not talking about trying to get the handle down to the soap - just enough to get some traction. With my soaps it takes between 10-15 seconds to load, but there is a great deal of variation on time. The brush should look loaded - see some soap on there!

10 minutes to build lather is right out! It generally takes me about one minute. If you can see that you need quite a bit of water there is no advantage to adding it two drops at a time. 10-15 seconds is more than enough time to incorporate the added water.

You might want to stick with creams for a while. You can scoop out a dollop of cream (almond size is usually suggested, but in your shoes I'd start with a bit more) and put it in the bottom of your bowl.

I strongly suggest you do a few test lathers. Use what you think is too much product and add water a little at a time (every 10 seconds) until it looks good. Keep adding water until it looks too thin. You want to get a good visual concept of those stages of lather so you recognize when you're "home."

This is really not that complicated, assuming you start with enough product and reasonable water. Lather should never dry on your face. That's a lack of water - but if you don't use enough product you'll make it worse by adding water.

You can try face lathering, but it honestly doesn't make any difference. I do both and my lather is exactly the same with either.

Did I mention more product?

Good luck.

 

[Srdjan]

For what it's worth, my SOC boar was a horrible brush that would eat lather and I have never once got good enough lather from it... Decent, yes. Good? Absolutely not. I threw it away. After watching your video, I'd suggest you do the same.

This is not to say they are all bad, but yours is, mine was, and I've read and heard plenty comments suggesting the same.

What's your other brush?

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

 

[Smooth and Sharp]

For what it's worth, my SOC boar was a horrible brush that would eat lather and I have never once got good enough lather from it... Decent, yes. Good? Absolutely not. I threw it away. After watching your video, I'd suggest you do the same.

This is not to say they are all bad, but yours is, mine was, and I've read and heard plenty comments suggesting the same.

What's your other brush?

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

Funny because I have great success with my synth brushes and only have 1 boar brush. Everytime I give a try to that brush, its incredible the amount of cream needed to get the same result as my synth. My boar goes well to spread lather on my face but sucks bad to build lather in a bowl.

 

[Invicta]

The TfOBS creams and Cella lather very easily, even with the hard water I get from the tap. I use a large almond sized snurdle for a four pass shave. I am thinking you need to load more product (as many have said) using a spoon or small spatula so you can gauge how much you are loading.
All brushes hold lather in the knot to varying degrees. You just gently squeeze out that lather from the knot for that last pass.

 

[FarmerTan]

Try face lathering. Ten minutes of bowl lathering is ten minutes you'll never get back. And 2 to 3 minutes loading the brush is WAY to long. Geez, no wonder it is sticky in the bowl. You could add water with a shot glass. Try loading for 15, 20 seconds.

I stopped reading this thread with this post, so OBVIOUSLY it's the best post, lol.

Shaving should be FUN! Me working for more than a few seconds rubbing a chunk of soap on my face, followed by a moist brush is just too much like work.

And face lathering just FEELS so good to me and my simple mind.

 

[bigbrucefan]

You should try face lathering. I had the same issue e years ago until I started face lathering. Never went back since.
Load up the brush with lots of soap (more than you think you need) and lather on the face, 1 minute should be enough.

Face lather for me too. I load the brush for about ten seconds and have enough for three passes. The lather gets built on the face so easily.

 

[slybrewguy]

It's literally this easy and quick, if this doesn't work then I don't know what to say:

His face is frothy looking before he starts to lather because of pre shave, this isn't necessary and doesn't contribute to the quality or speed of lather. I just used these as an example. He uses a boar so you may want to soak a badger a little bit more but regardless of material I've never subscribed to the dripping wet brush. I like a dryer brush and add water as I go, my lather improved dramatically.

 

[thombrogan]

get your self a 24mm synthetic brush and you will cut your lathering time down to 1 minute

That advice works with a 30mm synthetic, too.

Also, if your soap can be removed from its jar, it can be a shave stick. Just rub it gently against the grain of your whiskers. Twice if in any doubt. Then dip your brush in water, splay on face, and use combination of circular movements and adding drips of water to get desired consistency.

I was face-lathering using just the tips of the brush with a little irritation happening from it (if I wanted irritation, I’d just over-shave like normal) and @Esox talked me into splaying the brush. Boom! Lather erupted almost instantly.

From being useful the instant the bristles are damp to generally being softer than comparably-priced badger (and boar before broken in) to drying faster, I think synthetic brushes are great for folks without a Brush Acquisition Disorder. Don’t worry about them not being “natural.” Not only are they completely natural, the animals used to make them all passed without the use of humans often millions of years ago.

 

[njpaddy]

Look at wet-shaving like a video game. It's a quest. Enjoy the challenge. Try every variation possible until you find one that works for you. There is no one-size fits all in wet-shaving. I had been shaving with electrics, injectors and carts since the early 60s. When I switched to DE 10 years ago, it took me time to "crack the code". I'm on well water and have tried everything from bowl-lathering creams to face-lathering soaps. I finally figured out that face-lathering with certain soaps and drier brush worked for me. Accept the challenge.

 

[Ron R]

That advice works with a 30mm synthetic, too.

Also, if your soap can be removed from its jar, it can be a shave stick. Just rub it gently against the grain of your whiskers. Twice if in any doubt. Then dip your brush in water, splay on face, and use combination of circular movements and adding drips of water to get desired consistency.

I was face-lathering using just the tips of the brush with a little irritation happening from it (if I wanted irritation, I’d just over-shave like normal) and @Esox talked me into splaying the brush. Boom! Lather erupted almost instantly.

From being useful the instant the bristles are damp to generally being softer than comparably-priced badger (and boar before broken in) to drying faster, I think synthetic brushes are great for folks without a Brush Acquisition Disorder. Don’t worry about them not being “natural.” Not only are they completely natural, the animals used to make them all passed without the use of humans often millions of years ago.

Makes sense to me what your doing and your getting excellent results that is what a person wants. @Esox has good advice sometimes and he would not lead you astray IMO.
I think Synthetics have more whiskers per knot possibly and they are engineered to have soft tips with some backbone for those who like that combination to create great lather, animal knots will get you there but with a little more effort IMO.

 

[Ivo4u2]

I have given a client of mine a big granite mortar as a shaving bowl and an older synthetic of mine since he could not get a decent lather from croap.
that rougher surface of the bowl helps a looooooot.
Silicone folding petbowls work too.
Water hardness can be a problem try some bottled water instead.
About a pinky nail of soap
Wet brush let it soak for a minute and lather way

 

[thombrogan]

@Esox has good advice sometimes and he would not lead you astray

He’s done a lot to help save me from myself. He’s also a pusher of Micromatic Bullt Tip and Micromatic Open Combs even though he doesn’t sell them or take a commission from people who’ve heeded his recommendations and got that comfort/efficiency boost from Ever Ready/GEM/Schick.

animal knots will get you there but with a little more effort IMO.

That was my experience and it was funny how night and day better the synthetic behaved on first use and has kept getting better.

 

[Esox]

I was face-lathering using just the tips of the brush with a little irritation happening from it (if I wanted irritation, I’d just over-shave like normal) and @Esox talked me into splaying the brush. Boom! Lather erupted almost instantly

Yep, I use the whole knot and splay it almost completely. I only use the tips and sides of the bristles for painting to even it out before I start to shave. This is also why I like smaller knots. My 22mm Maggard Plissoft type is almost perfect but still bit too big when fully splayed.

My Omega 10005, while being a very nice boar knot, just has way to much backbone and scrub for me and I can have the same issue as you mention because of how I use a brush. Irritation from the bristles themselves.

My Yaqi Silvertip, while also being a very nice brush, when loaded and lathering its like using a wet mop and, being 24mm, its huge for me. It also has a bit of scritch or scratchiness I dont like.

The Maggard Plissoft type I prefer on the other hand, has enough scrub when used vigorously, no scritch and never feels like a wet mop because the synthetic fibers have spring to them. That springiness incidentally, lessens as the knot breaks in. Mine is a better brush now than it was a year ago.

Makes sense to me what your doing and your getting excellent results that is what a person wants. @Esox has good advice sometimes and he would not lead you astray IMO.
I think Synthetics have more whiskers per knot possibly and they are engineered to have soft tips with some backbone for those who like that combination to create great lather, animal knots will get you there but with a little more effort IMO.

I try and do my best to help anyone but we all need to keep in mind that what may be perfection for one, could be unacceptable to another. This is why we all need to find what works the best for each of us because we're all individuals.

Synthetic bristles I think have minutely serrated edges compared to natural hairs and because of that they load much more quickly, assuming you use the entire length of those bristles.

Loading PdP for example. Using my Omega boar I loaded for 100 swirls around the tub and went back for another 100 before I had loaded enough to shave with. Using my Maggard, 30 swirls gave me enough and 50 if I want a thicker heavier lather. My Silvertip on the other hand, I didnt even bother trying to load PdP with it because I know it would take far longer than I was willing to spend.

The main symptom I have is my lather just doesn't feel slick enough and will often cause irritation in some areas. My lather also seems to dry out on my face rather quickly (by the time I have finished one side, the other side will have started to dry). The advice that I've read suggests this is caused by not enough water but I really can't believe that. I can spend a good 10 minutes lathering in a bowl, adding a few drops of water as many people suggest every 30 to 60 seconds as to not add too much too quickly (which I have read can cause problems) and I still get terrible lather. Another suggestion that comes up a lot is to use more soap, again I really doubt this is the issue because I spend 2 to 3 minutes loading the brush "like I hate it" as some have suggested.

From what you describe above, I'd give the same advice you've already gotten. The soap:water ratio is everything to a lather. Load to heavily and it will be dry and pasty. Add too much water to that pasty lather and you'll have a thin watery mess with little slickness and less cushion.

This is an advantage to face lathering. You can feel it on your skin when you cant in a bowl. My advice is to try just that. Load as you normally do, heavily. Wipe your face with a wet hand and start working the brush around until your face is covered and gauge the lather. If its still to thick, dry and pasty, dip just the tips of your brush, maybe a 1/4", in water and start working that water into the lather. You will get it how you like it eventually. Once you know where you like it, it will become habit.

Bear in mind the above too. All brushes, even of the same knot type, can behave differently as can all soaps and creams. We've all, at one point or another, been exactly where you are. We need to learn each brush and each soap, the same way we need to learn each razor and blade. They all behave differently and finding the perfect combination takes time. Trust me, that time is time well spent and worth it.

 

[Esox]

He’s done a lot to help save me from myself.

 

[Srdjan]

Funny because I have great success with my synth brushes and only have 1 boar brush. Everytime I give a try to that brush, its incredible the amount of cream needed to get the same result as my synth. My boar goes well to spread lather on my face but sucks bad to build lather in a bowl.

Yes sir, I have seen wonderful SOC boars and have many times debated buying 2 or 3 more, hoping that at least one will be great. Never done it though.. I am too deep into the badger hole now. Lol

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk