Can't get good lather. Need Help.

[Enthymeme]

I have been wetshaving for over a year now and I still cannot seem to get a good lather, in fact it kinda feels like my lather is even worse now than it was when I started. I have absolutely no idea what I am doing wrong. I've read countless forum threads about others having issues with lather but none of the advice that I have found has been able to help me so far.

The main symptom I have is my lather just doesn't feel slick enough and will often cause irritation in some areas. My lather also seems to dry out on my face rather quickly (by the time I have finished one side, the other side will have started to dry). The advice that I've read suggests this is caused by not enough water but I really can't believe that. I can spend a good 10 minutes lathering in a bowl, adding a few drops of water as many people suggest every 30 to 60 seconds as to not add too much too quickly (which I have read can cause problems) and I still get terrible lather. Another suggestion that comes up a lot is to use more soap, again I really doubt this is the issue because I spend 2 to 3 minutes loading the brush "like I hate it" as some have suggested.
I have tried the "Marco Method" where you load with a soaking wet brush and the "Dry Method" where the brush is merely damp and I see no improvement.

I use a Semogue Owner's Club boar brush but I also have badger brush. I have tried both soaps and creams. TOBS and Palmolive creams and Tabac, Cella, Le Père Lucien, Haslinger soaps. These are decent products and should allow me to get a good lather so the problem must come from my technique.

I have noticed that when I pull the brush away from the lather, often the lather will "tear" instead of forming a nice peak. I have recorded a video that demonstrates this. I am hoping it can serve as a clue that an exeperienced wetshaver may be able to use to identify the problem with my lather!

 

[dfoulk]

Start with a drier brush to pick up some soap a bit more quickly then and add water slowly a few drops at a time and watch what happens. Initially your goal is just to pick up soap. You'll adjust the lather later on right before you use it by adding water. Hard soaps may take you slightly longer than soft soaps to lather. Still, you don't need to, and shouldn't have to, lather a soap for ten minutes as you lather seems to have a bit more air in it than I'd like to see.

Le Pere Lucien lathers almost effortlessly for me as does Tabac.

As an experiment maybe add more water than you think you should. Maybe add water until the soap completely breaks down, then you'll know how far you can take it. Don't be afraid to shave with substandard lathers as you'll learn from it what you like and don't like in a lather as what is ideal for me you might not care for and vice versa. I add enough at the end that the lather gets a nice shine to it. Almost gel like. The wetter it is the slicker it should be.

This being said your water, your choice of soap, and your brush to some extent can also have an effect on the results you get.

If you want to PM me feel free to do so and I can try to help you further.

 

[Dog Whiskerer]

Try face lathering. Ten minutes of bowl lathering is ten minutes you'll never get back. And 2 to 3 minutes loading the brush is WAY to long. Geez, no wonder it is sticky in the bowl. You could add water with a shot glass. Try loading for 15, 20 seconds.

 

[Dog Whiskerer]

Ken loads and lathers here in two minutes, from the 7:07 mark to 9:05

 

[Alex23]

You should try face lathering. I had the same issue e years ago until I started face lathering. Never went back since.
Load up the brush with lots of soap (more than you think you need) and lather on the face, 1 minute should be enough.

 

[Asker]

1) Fill a Cup/Bowl with shaving cream(I used a plastic cup). Put a generous amount in there(Half as long as your index/middle finger or 1-2 dollops)(I used "proraso white cream" although I'm pretty sure you can use any cream but I chose proraso because it has chelating agents I don't know if hard soap would work which is technically bloom water anyway but you'd need to get alot of soap and that could be awkward and time consuming to do).


2) Once Cup/Bowl is filled with shave cream fill it up with the tap water till half way to 75%.


3)Put brush in the Cup/Bowl and mix the cream and water so you homogenize it and turn into soapy water and then leave the brush in there to soak.(Test for the slickness of water by rubbing your fingers in it. Should be very slick)


4)VERY IMPORTANT. DO NOT USE THE HARD TAP WATER NO MATTER WHAT!!!(You should ensure you have enough shaving cream soapy water to last you the entire shave. A half way filled plastic cup was enough for me)

5) Proceed to drip some of the soapy water into your hand and rub IT INTO your beard really well with it and repeat a couple of times so your face feels hydrated with the soapy water


6)Once done. Take the brush and let it drain via gravity and LOAD the LOVE OUT OF your soap of choice or you could just put another dollop of cream into the brush

7)Take some soapy water from the cup into your hands and rub it over your face ONE LAST TIME you wanna get your face nice and wet enough with the slick soapy water right before you start face lathering(Or if you're bowl lathering then your face and some soapy water into the bowl).

8)Proceed to face lather and whatever water you add to the brush as you're building the lather MUST ONLY BE THE SOAPY SLICK WATER from the CUP/BOWL (NEVER HARD WATER FROM THE TAP!!!!!). You will get a RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF SLICK LATHER on your face.

9)Right before you start shaving. DUNK YOUR RAZOR Head in the soapy water and flick of the excess(or keep it on up to you) and begin shaving. When the razor is filled with enough soap after certain amount of strokes, rinse razor under tap water then dunk razor back into soapy water and continue shaving and so on and so on. You always wanna have a slick water layer on your blade and razor head right before starting a stroke.

10) Hopefully, you will have an amazing shave. EVER SINCE THIS METHOD I've been doing 3 passes. I NEVER DO 3 PASSES!!! Only 2.And it was smoooooth/fast and way less irritation. Just remember always to use the soapy water to dunk your razor head in after you rinsed under tap water and right before starting the shave stroke.

 

[Timeclo]

I have been wetshaving for over a year now and I still cannot seem to get a good lather, in fact it kinda feels like my lather is even worse now than it was when I started. I have absolutely no idea what I am doing wrong. I've read countless forum threads about others having issues with lather but none of the advice that I have found has been able to help me so far.

The main symptom I have is my lather just doesn't feel slick enough and will often cause irritation in some areas. My lather also seems to dry out on my face rather quickly (by the time I have finished one side, the other side will have started to dry). The advice that I've read suggests this is caused by not enough water but I really can't believe that. I can spend a good 10 minutes lathering in a bowl, adding a few drops of water as many people suggest every 30 to 60 seconds as to not add too much too quickly (which I have read can cause problems) and I still get terrible lather. Another suggestion that comes up a lot is to use more soap, again I really doubt this is the issue because I spend 2 to 3 minutes loading the brush "like I hate it" as some have suggested.
I have tried the "Marco Method" where you load with a soaking wet brush and the "Dry Method" where the brush is merely damp and I see no improvement.

I use a Semogue Owner's Club boar brush but I also have badger brush. I have tried both soaps and creams. TOBS and Palmolive creams and Tabac, Cella, Le Père Lucien, Haslinger soaps. These are decent products and should allow me to get a good lather so the problem must come from my technique.

I have noticed that when I pull the brush away from the lather, often the lather will "tear" instead of forming a nice peak. I have recorded a video that demonstrates this. I am hoping it can serve as a clue that an exeperienced wetshaver may be able to use to identify the problem with my lather!

Looking at the video, it seems like you didn't load enough soap. Especially with a boar, I remind myself to overload because natural hairs eat up lather in general.

Spending 2-3 minutes loading can be unproductive if your brush is dry. I'd say load for 30 seconds and look at your brush. If it's dry, dip it under water and load again. Repeat this step until you get a thick, creamy load on your brush.

Another method you can try is scooping out the soap into the bowl. This way, you know how much you're loading and you can swirl until that sample is gone in the bowl. I use this method often to preserve my soap collection and I also get great lathers out of it.

As for the steps, scoop out a quarter-sized sample and spread it on the bowl. Then drip some water and lathering it until that sample is gone. Add water as necessary; I usually add 3-4 finger drips of water into the bowl.

Another tip is use a synthetic brush. It just makes my life so much easier when I'm having trouble with lather. You can pick one up for cheap (10-15 bucks) on Maggards, WCS, Stirling, etcs.

Out of your soaps/creams, I'd say Cella and Palmolive cream are some my favorites. Load heavy and add water until desired consistency.

 

[Dave-the-rave]

Learn by hand lathering. Use a dripping wet brush, get it on the soap and whip it up on the palm of your hand. Keep going and observe how the lather changes with your effort. Then experiment anyway you want, still on your hand until you find a way you prefer. Then go bowl or face lathering as you see fit.

 

[Hydguy]

I have only been wet shaving for a little over a month and a half, so take my reply as just that : observations of a newbie:

It looks like there is way too much soap, and far too little water.
I don't know anything about the soaps you listed, as far as type (puck, cream, soft), but I've only used one puck, and that was the VHD. my other 2 soaps are soft (Wickham 1912 and Captain's Choice), but it looks like you start out with way to much soap.
My lather has gotten much better in the last 3 weeks.
I soak the brush in hot water for a few minutes, and then give it one good shake before I start loading it.
I load it for about 15-20 seconds before going to my shave mug or bowl.
Then I just start working it for about 30 seconds and watch as the lather forms. I never get it right the first time, its always too dry. then I just add about a half a teaspoon (not measured. I use a teaspoon from the kitchen) and start to work it again and watch. I usually have to add a little more to get a good lather. But once I added too much water, adn you could see right away that it thinned out. So I loaded the brush for about 5 seconds, and worked that into the bowl, and that brought out a good lather.

I have used both boar and badger, and I'm now able to get what I consider a pretty decent lather with either type.

Honestly, it sounds like you have loaded the brush with so much soap that it's making the bristles clump together and not allowing them to work with the small amount of water you are adding. And you video reinforces my opinion because it looks like a very thick cream.
But that 's just my opinion.

Have you read through this thread? Might find some useful info from people who have been doing this for a long time.

Making Lather From a Soap: Some Perspectives

Many new shavers have used canned shaving creams and when they start off doing traditional wet shaving they are shocked that their lather looks nothing like what comes out of a can. They immediately think something is wrong with their lather since it is not as fluffy as what they used in the...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[karacha]

Try using a cream, and you won’t have to spend any time loading soap. Your lather should be ready in two minutes or less. Also, you should be able to pick up enough soap with your brush in 30 seconds. Less if the soap is soft.

 

[Ctbjdm]

Another newbie here, but any chance you have hard tap water?

How Hard Water vs Soft Water Affects Your Skin and Shaving

Do you have a hard water issue? Your water smells and tastes foul. You get spots on dishes, flatware, and glasses. Your sink, bathtub, and toilet get brown stains. Your skin feels dry, itchy or irritated after showering, shaving or washing hands and face. You may do a simple test with water...

www.menssoap.com

 

[Timeclo]

I have been wetshaving for over a year now and I still cannot seem to get a good lather, in fact it kinda feels like my lather is even worse now than it was when I started. I have absolutely no idea what I am doing wrong. I've read countless forum threads about others having issues with lather but none of the advice that I have found has been able to help me so far.

The main symptom I have is my lather just doesn't feel slick enough and will often cause irritation in some areas. My lather also seems to dry out on my face rather quickly (by the time I have finished one side, the other side will have started to dry). The advice that I've read suggests this is caused by not enough water but I really can't believe that. I can spend a good 10 minutes lathering in a bowl, adding a few drops of water as many people suggest every 30 to 60 seconds as to not add too much too quickly (which I have read can cause problems) and I still get terrible lather. Another suggestion that comes up a lot is to use more soap, again I really doubt this is the issue because I spend 2 to 3 minutes loading the brush "like I hate it" as some have suggested.
I have tried the "Marco Method" where you load with a soaking wet brush and the "Dry Method" where the brush is merely damp and I see no improvement.

I use a Semogue Owner's Club boar brush but I also have badger brush. I have tried both soaps and creams. TOBS and Palmolive creams and Tabac, Cella, Le Père Lucien, Haslinger soaps. These are decent products and should allow me to get a good lather so the problem must come from my technique.

I have noticed that when I pull the brush away from the lather, often the lather will "tear" instead of forming a nice peak. I have recorded a video that demonstrates this. I am hoping it can serve as a clue that an exeperienced wetshaver may be able to use to identify the problem with my lather!

Here's a quick video of me lathering Cella with SOC boar. Just one way to do it and I got a pretty good result. I also have hard water over here.

 

[Hydguy]

Here's a quick video of me lathering Cella with SOC boar. Just one way to do it and I got a pretty good result. I also have hard water over here.

That's insane lather.

 

[Avi]

Here's a quick video of me lathering Cella with SOC boar. Just one way to do it and I got a pretty good result. I also have hard water over here.

love your videos!!

Actually that said I agree with the folks who face lather. I was getting cartoonishly good looking lather like this in bowls but it just didn’t shave well in my mind. With the face it’s pretty obvious if one is too dry too wet too thick etc so it’s easier know what to do after a few tries.

Avi

 

[Ron R]

I will more or less get a cringe from the seasoned shavers for this remark, get your self a 24mm synthetic brush and you will cut your lathering time down to 1 minute, if your lather looks to dry dip the tip of your brush in water to re-moisten your lather from losing it from heat of your face through evaporation. (we all have to do this from time to time).

 

[RumpleBearskin]

Maybe add water until the soap completely breaks dow

I do this with each soap I get. Soaps all like differing levels of hydration and the only way to find the perfect amount of water to add is to keep adding (slowly) until the lather collapses. For every subsequent use, stop short of that point.

And remember, there's no shame in adding either more water or more soap/cream mid-shave. Lathers will dry and shavers will add to much water. It's the nature of things so roll with it. It's not a science, it's an art.

 

[BigJ]

Great advice above!

I suggest you stick with one (well-regarded) product for awhile as you dial in your technique!

Generally my rules are:
#1. More product!
#2. More water!

Trial and error is key as you dial in the optimal ratio of water to product!

 

[emwolf]

There are some really great suggestions in this thread! I've used many of them. Lathering is routinely the lion's share of my shave time. It sets the stage for an awesome shave.

 

[Enthymeme]

I didn't expect to get so many responses! Thank you all for taking the time to try to help me with this issue and especially to Timeclo for going to the trouble of making a video, I really appreciate that.

Regarding Timeclo's video: I tried a practice lather after watching your video and I must say I think I may have made some progress. Cella has always been more problematic than some of the other products I own, but after following your instructions I think I got a decent lather although it did still seem quite airy to me. I will try again later and use it to shave with to see how well it performs.

I made another practice lather using TOBS Sandalwood. I placed 3 grams of product in the bowl, sprinkled it with a few drops of water and squeezed the excess water out of the brush. I added a few drops of water every 30 seconds. After 5 minutes or so this is the result:

This lather seems too airy to me, what do you think? Did I use too much water or not enough? Surely I used enough product. Maybe I am swirling the brush too vigourously or using too much pressure?
The thing is I really have no "feel" for the lather. I don't see the lather responding to the water I am adding or the way I swirl the brush. The lather looks the same after 2 minutes as it does after 5 minutes, airy, foamy, bubbly and not very slick.

 

[Smooth and Sharp]

I didn't expect to get so many responses! Thank you all for taking the time to try to help me with this issue and especially to Timeclo for going to the trouble of making a video, I really appreciate that.

Regarding Timeclo's video: I tried a practice lather after watching your video and I must say I think I may have made some progress. Cella has always been more problematic than some of the other products I own, but after following your instructions I think I got a decent lather although it did still seem quite airy to me. I will try again later and use it to shave with to see how well it performs.

I made another practice lather using TOBS Sandalwood. I placed 3 grams of product in the bowl, sprinkled it with a few drops of water and squeezed the excess water out of the brush. I added a few drops of water every 30 seconds. After 5 minutes or so this is the result:

View attachment 1123533

View attachment 1123537

This lather seems too airy to me, what do you think? Did I use too much water or not enough? Surely I used enough product. Maybe I am swirling the brush too vigourously or using too much pressure?
The thing is I really have no "feel" for the lather. I don't see the lather responding to the water I am adding or the way I swirl the brush. The lather looks the same after 2 minutes as it does after 5 minutes, airy, foamy, bubbly and not very slick.

It looks a bit airy but how I do it with cream is I put about the size of a "thumb" tip in a bowl and I start with only the water left in the brush after 2 squeezes. Then I see how it goes from there. I usually dont have to swirl more than 30 secs. If it doesnt look airy, like no bubbles, I start lathering my face and only adds water to the brush if needed. Like I pass the tip of my brush very quickly under slow running water. Then I face lather until im happy.
I prefer creams and I use synthetic for it. Good luck but just remember there shouldnt be so much maths into the process. I dont count time, grams or drops. Might be why its complicated because not all creams or soaps requires the same "receipe".