Canadian Single Ring?

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Bought a cased razor and it arrived today. Did I buy a Single Ring? Any way to date it? It has CAN. PAT. MAR 7 05 around the lower rim on the body and a serial number that is hard to read on the interior barrel, (looks to me like C85196).
Here are a few pics:






Sorry for the bad pics, all I had was my phone.

 

[alex2363]

1905 its 1906, the 1905 have the black blade cases, 1906 have the nickle plated shiny blade cases. Single ring, very nice..how much you spend?$

 

[InfernoOrangeSS]

yes sir, very nice..how much you spend?$

I think it was $35. It is silver plated and the case still fastens. Anyone help date it would be great.

 

[alex2363]

I think it was $35. It is silver plated and the case still fastens. Anyone help date it would be great.

its 1906, the 1905 have the black blade cases, 1906 have the nickle plated shiny blade cases

 

[InfernoOrangeSS]

its 1906, the 1905 have the black blade cases, 1906 have the nickle plated shiny blade cases

Really? I hoped it was at least 1912. That sounds even better. Does it matter that it is Canadian? Would that date it later?

 

[alex2363]

Really? I hoped it was at least 1912. That sounds even better. Does it matter that it is Canadian? Would that date it later?

Canadian dates are not an exact science, theres flaws in them. I go by the case to ID them, more or less

 

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Canadian dates are not an exact science, there's flaws in them. I go by the case to ID them, more or less

Thank you! Would you say $35 was a good price? I was prepared to go to $50 since I really want a single and a double ring in my collection.
(I am sure I will be long in waiting to find a Double ring.)

 

[alex2363]

Thank you! Would you say $35 was a good price? I was prepared to go to $50 since I really want a single and a double ring in my collection.
(I am sure I will be long in waiting to find a Double ring.)

Thats a good price, go for it.

 

[InfernoOrangeSS]

That's a good price, go for it.

I did...it arrived today. It's even more beautiful in person than my poor pictures represent.

 

[Sledgehammer39]

Nice Score!

 

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Nice Score!

Thank you!

 

[MacDaddy]

its 1906, the 1905 have the black blade cases, 1906 have the nickle plated shiny blade cases

Well, to start with Gillette didn't have a factory in Canada at all until sometime during 1906, so we know it can't be 1905 just from that. Also, I'm pretty sure that the metal "match safe" blade cases didn't come around as early as 1906. I think they were more like 1908 when Gillette's "New Process" blades came out. At any rate, even if they did go back as far as 1906 you couldn't use that as a reason to date the set to 1906 specifically, since they used them for many years -- until the change over to the cigarette-pack-style blade cases.

However, beyond that the case has the diamond logo, which we know didn't start showing up until 1908, and with it actually printed on the headliner I'd guess that 1909 or possibly very late 1908 is a more likely "earliest" date that the set could be from looking at everything but the serial number.

Really? I hoped it was at least 1912. That sounds even better. Does it matter that it is Canadian? Would that date it later?

We don't have much hard information on the Canadian serial numbering, but we're trying to sort things out over here in this thread. I personally wouldn't guess any earlier than late 1908 to 1909, as I said above, but we can try to dig into the serial number a little bit.

Just to be clear, everything below this point are my own extrapolations based on my own observations, those collected in that Canadian serial number thread, and the references we've assembled in the Gillette History Geek Out thread and on the Gillette Timeline wiki page. This is by no means "settled science."

I'm all but certain that the "C" prefix on the serial number doesn't line up at all with the Boston plant's serial numbers, which I assume is why you were thinking 1912. It seems more likely just looking at the evidence that the Canadian plant was using their own letter prefixes ("C" and "PC") early on to create their own series (perhaps multiple series) separate from Boston's. We also have some indications of Gillette Canada's early production rates from articles in the Gillette Blade. According to them, at the start they were producing no more than 35 razors a day. Then by the time they had settled into their third factory location on St. Alexander St. near the end of 1907 or early 1908 (after their first on St. Antoine St. was burned to the ground in January of 1907, and they were briefly in a second temporary location on St. Paul St.) their production was nearer to 75 razors per day.

Assuming that those are remotely accurate, I'd guess that they turned out no more than a few thousand razors in 1906, and then maybe crossed into the 5-digits in 1907. If we assume that the plant was operating at that same production rate six days a week for the entire year, they'd have been turning out somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000 razors a year. So if we also assume that your "C 85196" was part of a single, continuous series that could put it sometime around 1910. That would also be around the point that the Boston plant stopped serial numbering on the inner barrel and moved to the guard plate, even on the Single Rings, for what that's worth here.

 

[alex2363]

Well, to start with Gillette didn't have a factory in Canada at all until sometime during 1906, so we know it can't be 1905 just from that. Also, I'm pretty sure that the metal "match safe" blade cases didn't come around as early as 1906. I think they were more like 1908 when Gillette's "New Process" blades came out. At any rate, even if they did go back as far as 1906 you couldn't use that as a reason to date the set to 1906 specifically, since they used them for many years -- until the change over to the cigarette-pack-style blade cases.

However, beyond that the case has the diamond logo, which we know didn't start showing up until 1908, and with it actually printed on the headliner I'd guess that 1909 or possibly very late 1908 is a more likely "earliest" date that the set could be from looking at everything but the serial number.



We don't have much hard information on the Canadian serial numbering, but we're trying to sort things out over here in this thread. I personally wouldn't guess any earlier than late 1908 to 1909, as I said above, but we can try to dig into the serial number a little bit.

Just to be clear, everything below this point are my own extrapolations based on my own observations, those collected in that Canadian serial number thread, and the references we've assembled in the Gillette History Geek Out thread and on the Gillette Timeline wiki page. This is by no means "settled science."

I'm all but certain that the "C" prefix on the serial number doesn't line up at all with the Boston plant's serial numbers, which I assume is why you were thinking 1912. It seems more likely just looking at the evidence that the Canadian plant was using their own letter prefixes ("C" and "PC") early on to create their own series (perhaps multiple series) separate from Boston's. We also have some indications of Gillette Canada's early production rates from articles in the Gillette Blade. According to them, at the start they were producing no more than 35 razors a day. Then by the time they had settled into their third factory location on St. Alexander St. near the end of 1907 or early 1908 (after their first on St. Antoine St. was burned to the ground in January of 1907, and they were briefly in a second temporary location on St. Paul St.) their production was nearer to 75 razors per day.

Assuming that those are remotely accurate, I'd guess that they turned out no more than a few thousand razors in 1906, and then maybe crossed into the 5-digits in 1907. If we assume that the plant was operating at that same production rate six days a week for the entire year, they'd have been turning out somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000 razors a year. So if we also assume that your "C 85196" was part of a single, continuous series that could put it sometime around 1910. That would also be around the point that the Boston plant stopped serial numbering on the inner barrel and moved to the guard plate, even on the Single Rings, for what that's worth here.

So this is not a 1906 Canadian single?View attachment 270951

 

[alex2363]

Cant be a 1912 since 1912 Canadian Single Ring hadthe serial number on head

 

[alex2363]

Well, to start with Gillette didn't have a factory in Canada at all until sometime during 1906, so we know it can't be 1905 just from that. Also, I'm pretty sure that the metal "match safe" blade cases didn't come around as early as 1906. I think they were more like 1908 when Gillette's "New Process" blades came out. At any rate, even if they did go back as far as 1906 you couldn't use that as a reason to date the set to 1906 specifically, since they used them for many years -- until the change over to the cigarette-pack-style blade cases.

However, beyond that the case has the diamond logo, which we know didn't start showing up until 1908, and with it actually printed on the headliner I'd guess that 1909 or possibly very late 1908 is a more likely "earliest" date that the set could be from looking at everything but the serial number.



We don't have much hard information on the Canadian serial numbering, but we're trying to sort things out over here in this thread. I personally wouldn't guess any earlier than late 1908 to 1909, as I said above, but we can try to dig into the serial number a little bit.

Just to be clear, everything below this point are my own extrapolations based on my own observations, those collected in that Canadian serial number thread, and the references we've assembled in the Gillette History Geek Out thread and on the Gillette Timeline wiki page. This is by no means "settled science."

I'm all but certain that the "C" prefix on the serial number doesn't line up at all with the Boston plant's serial numbers, which I assume is why you were thinking 1912. It seems more likely just looking at the evidence that the Canadian plant was using their own letter prefixes ("C" and "PC") early on to create their own series (perhaps multiple series) separate from Boston's. We also have some indications of Gillette Canada's early production rates from articles in the Gillette Blade. According to them, at the start they were producing no more than 35 razors a day. Then by the time they had settled into their third factory location on St. Alexander St. near the end of 1907 or early 1908 (after their first on St. Antoine St. was burned to the ground in January of 1907, and they were briefly in a second temporary location on St. Paul St.) their production was nearer to 75 razors per day.

Assuming that those are remotely accurate, I'd guess that they turned out no more than a few thousand razors in 1906, and then maybe crossed into the 5-digits in 1907. If we assume that the plant was operating at that same production rate six days a week for the entire year, they'd have been turning out somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000 razors a year. So if we also assume that your "C 85196" was part of a single, continuous series that could put it sometime around 1910. That would also be around the point that the Boston plant stopped serial numbering on the inner barrel and moved to the guard plate, even on the Single Rings, for what that's worth here.

Porter, I went by the Waits Comp..it has the signature logo as 1906 1st used. Also, i forgot about the Canadian plant start date, so it cant be 1006 due to that. Thanks as always for the history lesson.

 

[mblakele]

Cant be a 1912 since 1912 Canadian Single Ring hadthe serial number on head

After all the variations we cataloged at http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/305787-Gillette-Canada-serial-numbers Porter has convinced me that the Canada factory simply was not very consistent about how they made any model. So I would not place too much faith in the placement of the serial numbers. And I tend to think the Canada factory recycled serial numbers - perhaps annually or maybe whenever they hit C999999 or maybe whenever they felt the urge.

The diamond logo appears to have started on blades and advertising in 1908, then blade cases in late 1908 or early 1909, then cases in 1909, and finally on the razor itself. At some point it also showed up on brushes.

If the case is original, the diamond logo on the inside lid puts it at 1909 or later. What does the bottom of the case look like?

Are there diamond logos on the blade banks too? That would be a nice corroboration that they are original to the case, at least.

 

[alex2363]

After all the variations we cataloged at http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/305787-Gillette-Canada-serial-numbers Porter has convinced me that the Canada factory simply was not very consistent about how they made any model. So I would not place too much faith in the placement of the serial numbers. And I tend to think the Canada factory recycled serial numbers - perhaps annually or maybe whenever they hit C999999 or maybe whenever they felt the urge.

The diamond logo appears to have started on blades and advertising in 1908, then blade cases in late 1908 or early 1909, then cases in 1909, and finally on the razor itself. At some point it also showed up on brushes.

If the case is original, the diamond logo on the inside lid puts it at 1909 or later. What does the bottom of the case look like?

Are there diamond logos on the blade banks too? That would be a nice corroboration that they are original to the case, at least.

Thanks I learn something new everyday here at B&B

 

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Many thanks for the education! B&B never disappoints!

 

[celestino]

Well, however old it is, enjoy the razor!

 

[mountainsea]

Just wanted to share this lovely set I bought a few months ago -I had to buy it just because it looks to be complete.

The razor has Can Pat Mar 7 05 and Gillette written at the base of the handle and serial number 663851 inside (crack in handle but never mind)

The ebony brushes still have the tags on and there is a note inside - Christmas 1938 to Arthur with best wishes for Christmas and the new year - Good health and Happiness to you all from your - not sure what the next word is - possibly Uncle ?



I assume the razor is from before 1938 - so possibly passing on an earlier set to someone?

I am posting 3 more photos in the next reply as I can't put them all here