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Can not shave shallow ATG without irritation - Vintage Gillette

What blades have you tried? I have no problem shaving ATG as a 3rd pass with any of my vintage Gillettes. Those include assorted Techs and a couple of TTO Slims. I generally use Astra SP, 7 o'clock Yellow or, occasionally, BIC Chrome blades. I can't shave my top lip ATG with a crappy TTO, like my Wilkinson Sword metal classic (aka Weishi 9306-P) or anything else with poor blade rigidity. I've also had great success lately ATG with thick cap Old Types (1920's).
From sharp to less sharp. BIC astra derby, Gillette platinum…
 
You’ve probably already tried this but just in case. Hmmmmmmm, I just reread your first post. I’m assuming that you’ve mapped your whisker growth patterns. Mine are strange on my neck and chin, so a south to north pass isn’t really against the grain. Like I said, you’ve probably already know your face.

I have two Vintage Gillette TTOs in the queue I haven’t tried yet but the Vintage Tech I have works the same as my modern razors after I adapt to their preferred shave angle.

It’s a bit puzzling. @CCS might figure out what is happening as this thread continues. I know he’s already weighed in but sometimes it takes a few posts to get to the bottom of an issue. He isn’t the only one here with years of experience using Vintage Gillette razors but he is of them.
Thank you for the feedback.

Eventually I’ll figure this one out. Usually that’s what happens.

If it doesn’t, I’ll keep using it without my usual ATG pass.

Sad, but that’s life.
 
Gents, little update.

Just shaved with the 40s super speed and I think I’ve noticed something.

We all repeat that no pressure mantra and I think a little bit of pressure is what’s actually been missing.

First light handed upward stroke from the bottom of neck I felt and heard the first whiskers being pulled instead of cut.

Immediately I increased pressure, by a significant amount, and it went through with almost no tugging.

I’m used to heavier razors, with more blade feel. Hmmmm…

I think I see a light here… we’ll see, more testing to come…
 
Congratulations, @Alex Jr !



I miss the iconoclastic @woodfluter Even never seeing the pictures, this thread makes me wish I had even ‘normal’ levels of reading comprehension.
Nice thread!

There’s a huge subjectivity when people say “no pressure” and I think it could be misleading sometimes. There are so many variables.

I’m not a beginner in this and it’s amazing how a new type of razor design can put you in a learning position again.

Life is a beautiful thing.
 
Just as health vs. disease is highly controlled by limitations from our heredity, so comfortable and close shaving is highly controlled by pressure and angle.
Indeed.

Going from heavier and blade forward razors to a lighter milder one can really put that to test.
 
My first DE razor was a vintage Gillette butterfly, a Super Speed. At first I sort of had an issue similar to what you describe when going against the grain. No issues with irritation really, but a bit of tugging. Not sure exactly what I started doing different so I am sorry in that regard, I just kept at it but many years later it’s now a breeze shaving against the grain with that thing. Even the mustache area. Blades from the Rapira family seem to work particularly well with that vintage Gillette for against the grain shaving. Mainly Rapira Platinum Lux, and Ladas blades and typically I do not like going across the grain with a well used blade but I find those 2 seem to take longer before performance diminishes. Lord Platinum is another one I find that works well with that razor and also provides a few more quality shaves than what I typically get from other blades.

That razor is still my everyday go to..unless I happen to skip several days worth of shaving then I will go for an aggressive razor with bigger safety bar/blade gap in order to prevent clogging with the stubble. It shaves ok with the grain, does nicely across the grain, but against the grain is where it really shines and being a forgiving mild/medium razor I can whip that thing around and do a quick 3rd pass if I feel like going for a closer shave. I did get some nicks and what not first starting out I am sure we all did..and shaving against the grain was a bit of a problem at first I wish I had paid attention to exactly what I do different now so I could be of more help. I do know one thing, you will see a lot of people online talk about ‘30 degree angle’ this and that. I don’t go by that I adjust the angle until I see/hear the most growth being removed and keep at it unless I feel I am on the verge of nicking myself and couldn’t even tell you exactly what angle I am at and it may vary depending on what area of my face/neck I am shaving. Don’t give up if you prefer to do an against the grain pass just keep working with that razor and something will click eventually I just wish I knew exactly what I was doing at first that was giving me problems and when I made progress and how that came about precisely.
 
My first DE razor was a vintage Gillette butterfly, a Super Speed. At first I sort of had an issue similar to what you describe when going against the grain. No issues with irritation really, but a bit of tugging. Not sure exactly what I started doing different so I am sorry in that regard, I just kept at it but many years later it’s now a breeze shaving against the grain with that thing. Even the mustache area. Blades from the Rapira family seem to work particularly well with that vintage Gillette for against the grain shaving. Mainly Rapira Platinum Lux, and Ladas blades and typically I do not like going across the grain with a well used blade but I find those 2 seem to take longer before performance diminishes. Lord Platinum is another one I find that works well with that razor and also provides a few more quality shaves than what I typically get from other blades.

That razor is still my everyday go to..unless I happen to skip several days worth of shaving then I will go for an aggressive razor with bigger safety bar/blade gap in order to prevent clogging with the stubble. It shaves ok with the grain, does nicely across the grain, but against the grain is where it really shines and being a forgiving mild/medium razor I can whip that thing around and do a quick 3rd pass if I feel like going for a closer shave. I did get some nicks and what not first starting out I am sure we all did..and shaving against the grain was a bit of a problem at first I wish I had paid attention to exactly what I do different now so I could be of more help. I do know one thing, you will see a lot of people online talk about ‘30 degree angle’ this and that. I don’t go by that I adjust the angle until I see/hear the most growth being removed and keep at it unless I feel I am on the verge of nicking myself and couldn’t even tell you exactly what angle I am at and it may vary depending on what area of my face/neck I am shaving. Don’t give up if you prefer to do an against the grain pass just keep working with that razor and something will click eventually I just wish I knew exactly what I was doing at first that was giving me problems and when I made progress and how that came about precisely.
Thank you sir! Appreciate your words. I’m sure someday it’ll click. It always does. I’ve had that happen with other razors but these vintage ones are really different.
Try a new feather blade.
Certainly will!
 
Nice thread!

There’s a huge subjectivity when people say “no pressure” and I think it could be misleading sometimes. There are so many variables.

I’m not a beginner in this and it’s amazing how a new type of razor design can put you in a learning position again.

Life is a beautiful thing.
Even I didn't mention it here, I've mentioned it a few times (more than a few...) about the issue I had with a DE89 and @Alum Ladd's suggestion to work on my angle with that razor. I had such muscle memory from my vintage Gillettes that it never dawned on me to try a different angle with the DE89. Boom! Problems solved with just a little tweak. Having bought a few new SOB (some other brand) razors over the last month or so, adapting to them has been cake. I think I was in a 20+ year rut because I shaved without thinking (I still mostly do but at least I do give an initial thought about the razor I'm using that day and the best angle on that first stroke).
 
Even I didn't mention it here, I've mentioned it a few times (more than a few...) about the issue I had with a DE89 and @Alum Ladd's suggestion to work on my angle with that razor. I had such muscle memory from my vintage Gillettes that it never dawned on me to try a different angle with the DE89. Boom! Problems solved with just a little tweak. Having bought a few new SOB (some other brand) razors over the last month or so, adapting to them has been cake. I think I was in a 20+ year rut because I shaved without thinking (I still mostly do but at least I do give an initial thought about the razor I'm using that day and the best angle on that first stroke).
I just shaved with it again. A nice 2 pass WTG/ATG.

Again, a little better than yesterday, but there’s a little trouble spot under my jaw that still gave me 2 or 3 weepers and some post shave stinging. Nothing major, but it’s tender.

The thing is, when you shave over an already irritated area you can’t be sure if it’s just opening previous wounds or creating new ones.

Nonetheless, it’s only that spot under jaw that’s giving me some pain. The rest is smooth.

I know I should give it a couple of days to reset the skin, but I’m pushing through it. Yes, I’m stupid.
 
Great advice above!!

My experience, for what it is worth, is that I need to adapt my technique to get the best out of any new razor. I have also found that certain razors just don’t work well for me.

I suggest you keep at at for awhile with your ‘new’ vintage tools to determine the technique that works best. Worst case is that you decide to stick with what works well.
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
@Cal often says... and I paraphrase: don't forget to wear your white belt.... I try to follow his advice.. work on my technique with every shave.

I realize some of you have years and years of experience... but I hope I can keep improving, keep learning. I'm almost 70, so I won't ever be able to say... I have 30 years of traditional wet shaving experience.... <eg>
 
Great advice above!!

My experience, for what it is worth, is that I need to adapt my technique to get the best out of any new razor. I have also found that certain razors just don’t work well for me.

I suggest you keep at at for awhile with your ‘new’ vintage tools to determine the technique that works best. Worst case is that you decide to stick with what works well.
Yep, I’m trying to figure them out. Eventually I will. Or I’ll just adapt to them and maybe use it WTG/XTG under jaw and neck. The rest thankfully is not a problem ATG.
@Cal often says... and I paraphrase: don't forget to wear your white belt.... I try to follow his advice.. work on my technique with every shave.

I realize some of you have years and years of experience... but I hope I can keep improving, keep learning. I'm almost 70, so I won't ever be able to say... I have 30 years of traditional wet shaving experience.... <eg>
There’s always room from improvement and learning, for sure. That’s the beauty of it.

The hard part is trying to practice new things while your face is tender and irritated. That’s a pain in the…
 

Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker

Likes a fat handle in his hand
Hello Alex!

Your experience is pretty much echoing my experience as well. My review bellow...

So many people love these razors and absolutely rave about them. With the Fatboy, I understand, I echo the raves and positive waves. But with these Tech's, not so much. I don't know what it is about these Tech's, but they just simply do not work out for me, which is sad. While it is indeed true, that its never fun hearing about someones negative experience with a razor, it is however nice to have ones own experience confirmed.

This is my Gillette RED Flare SuperSpeed Tech, whats yours look like?

IMG_4239.JPG

Mine pretty much requires a replating/restoring, will have to send it in to get BRG to do his magic, but thats pretty much a plan for next year.
 
Hello Alex!

Your experience is pretty much echoing my experience as well. My review bellow...

So many people love these razors and absolutely rave about them. With the Fatboy, I understand, I echo the raves and positive waves. But with these Tech's, not so much. I don't know what it is about these Tech's, but they just simply do not work out for me, which is sad. While it is indeed true, that its never fun hearing about someones negative experience with a razor, it is however nice to have ones own experience confirmed.

This is my Gillette RED Flare SuperSpeed Tech, whats yours look like?

View attachment 1550880
Mine pretty much requires a replating/restoring, will have to send it in to get BRG to do his magic, but thats pretty much a plan for next year.
I’m posting pics as soon as I arrive home. Mine is pretty well preserved including the paint. Nothing twisted or bent.

I was quite disappointed when I began facing this ATG issue with both the red tip and the 40s SS. But again, it’s my first vintage and TTO razors, so there’s something to learn of course.

I just thought that it would be similar to modern ones, but they are quite unique.

I’ve seen your fatboy thread and how you liked it ATG.

Aren’t they supposed to have the same head design? (Red tip and fatboy)

Is it that smoother ATG? I might consider buying one.
 
My newest razor is a 1953 Superspeed, so I know nothing about modern razors. But with my vintage Gillettes, I have found that pressure (too much or too little) is a much bigger risk factor for irritation than angle.

Old Types, NEWs, & Superspeeds seem VERY tolerant of my experimenting with steep vs. shallow angles. As long as I can hear whiskers being cut, they’re happy.

Techs? Now THOSE are picky b*st*rds for me. If my angle isn’t just right, they either don’t cut at all, or the get tuggy. A sharp blade seems to help.

Most of the time when I end up with irritation (usually on my neck), I can pinpoint “operator error” in the form of either 1) going too fast! 2) too many passes 3) blade buffing too fast too many times (1 + 2).

Now, I recently had the worst shave in years, and it took me 3 different razors before I simply gave up in disgust. I actually got BIT, and bled like a stuck hog. The culprit: after using nothing but Astra SS and Nacet SS for months, I grabbed an Astra SP to try. Now, I used Astra SPs exclusively for 5 or 6 years, without issue. But I think now that I’m used to the stainless blades (with zero pressure), the coated SP was just too tuggy.

So IMO, you may be on the right track experimenting with pressure, more than angles.
 

Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker

Likes a fat handle in his hand
I’m posting pics as soon as I arrive home. Mine is pretty well preserved including the paint. Nothing twisted or bent.

I was quite disappointed when I began facing this ATG issue with both the red tip and the 40s SS. But again, it’s my first vintage and TTO razors, so there’s something to learn of course.

I just thought that it would be similar to modern ones, but they are quite unique.

I’ve seen your fatboy thread and how you liked it ATG.

Aren’t they supposed to have the same head design? (Red tip and fatboy)

Is it that smoother ATG? I might consider buying one.

Oh dude, my Gillette Fatboy is like a night and day difference when pitted against this tech! I can literally run my Fatboy down my face WTG on level 9 setting! There be some blade feel on MAX level 9, but used carefully, riding the bar a bit, takes down whiskers to nearly a BBS in spots of my face on the first pass!

Then I will do XTG on level 7, more whiskers removed, and doing it smoothly I might add.

Then I will follow it up with ATG on level 5, and the Fatboy just very smoothly removes the whiskers, literally the smoothest shaving razor I have in my entire arsenal, is the Gillette 195 Adjustable Fatboy from 1959 3rd quarter.

Now, you say that the heads are supposed to be the same? Well, then something went seriously wrong with the creation of my Tech, or it was damaged sometime in its life, because I can tell you right now, they both shave very different from each other. I took another closer look at the blade reveal of my Gillette Tech RED Flare Tip razor, on closer inspection, I notice ever so slight blade warp.

Let me try to explain what I mean by that. If you have a razor that has no issues, you clamped down the blade tightening the razor up all the way, and you took a look at the blade, viewing from a blade gap perspective, you should see that the blade is perfectly straight looking from left to right. However, with my tech, with blade clamped down all the way, the blade is not perfectly even straight from left to right.

I see a super slight bit of blade warping, where its a bit up and down, I don't know how else to describe it, and I don't think my pocket camera is good enough to show that level of detail. But I know there are folks who have seen this phenomenon before, and will already understand what I am talking about. So IDK, maybe thats the source that caused a true nightmare on my face to happen with the Tech razor.
 
Also: I’ve noticed that I have a bad habit. When first using a new to me razor, I really slow down and concentrate. And I get a “wow!” shave.

The next shave, I get cocky. Riding the high from my previous, great shave, I relax and get sloppy. The result is invariably a disappointing “sophomore slump.”
 
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