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Can not shave shallow ATG without irritation - Vintage Gillette

Gents, lately I’ve been through some bad shaving days and I need your help.

I’ve always intuitively shaved with a more steep angle, I find it more efficient and comfortable, less tugging and better results.

I’ve been doing this for some years, technique is solid (with modern razors), always getting wonderful shaves with mild and aggressive tools.

I’ve recently acquired some vintage Gillettes, some techs, a 40s super speed and a Red tip.

The thing is, vintage Gillettes seem to require a more shallow angle. This is not a problem when going WTG.

The issue starts when going ATG, if I try to go steeper it feels the blade is not in contact and not cutting clean.

The safety bar on these vintages are so pronounced that it makes almost impossible to go steep.

I’d have to push it in hard for the blade to touch the skin at a steeper angle, not a good practice of course.

So when tilting the razor for a shallower angle, it gives more feedback but also tugs, seems it’s pulling hair instead of cutting.

The results? No weepers, but irritation, red spots as result of pulling hairs, and the skin under jaw and chin hurts, literally.

I’ve tried different blades, soaps… no bueno.

I can not figure this thing out, these vintages seem so mild but at the same time seem so aggressive when you’re fighting the angle.

Considering I’m definitely not a shallow angle shaver, will I ever have a comfortable ATG shave with these vintage pieces?

Neglecting them to only WTG shaves should be the ultimate solution? I’d be sad if it ends up this way.

I’d really appreciate your input.
Alex
 
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Anyone?

Just tried to use a steeper angle few minutes ago. Red tip and 40s SS.

Just can’t, amazing. These TTO design seems to have a fixed and quite narrow angle.

I tried every ATG angle possible, there’s no middle ground. Go steep, it’s just the guard wiping the lather.

When the blade catches, tugging and pulling begins.

It’s so weird and so disappointing.

Well I guess these Gillettes will be WTG/XTG only razors.

At least for now.
 
I had a same issue on my neck. Changed a blade brand for more smooth one and don’t go ATG before WTG (or 2x WTG) on my neck. Over few weeks my skin got used to it.
 
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Anyone?

Just tried to use a steeper angle few minutes ago. Red tip and 40s SS.

Just can’t, amazing. These TTO design seems to have a fixed and quite narrow angle.

I tried every ATG angle possible, there’s no middle ground. Go steep, it’s just the guard wiping the lather.

When the blade catches, tugging and pulling begins.

It’s so weird and so disappointing.

Well I guess these Gillettes will be WTG/XTG only razors.

At least for now.
The angle is the angle based on my experience with any razor. Very little adjustment to use a razor most efficiently. I had an issue for some time with the DE89 but a couple months ago, @Alum Ladd made a suggestion to me regarding angle. I was so used to shaving with all my vintage Gillettes the same way that the tiniest adjustment with the DE89 solved my issue with that. I don't understand the "riding the bar", "riding the cap" method. There is an optimum angle for each razor. Past that, it seems to be about light pressure and a good blade. I shave all three directions with multiple passes with any of my 10-11 vintage Gillettes with zero issues.

One guess is you might not have reduced your whiskers enough before you start your ATG pass. By that point, the reduction should be at the point to make an ATG pass easy.
 
I had same issue on my neck. Changed a blade brand for more smooth one and don’t go ATG before WTG (or 2x WTG) on my neck. Over few weeks my skin got used to it.
ATG is usually my second pass. But I’ve tried as third too. No change.

Is this due to lack of blade rigidity maybe?

I’m not an expert on TTOs…
 
ATG is usually my second pass. But I’ve tried as third too. No change.

Is this due to lack of blade rigidity maybe?

I’m not an expert on TTOs…
No. You have to adapt to the tool, it doesn't adapt to you. You can look in my profile About to see the various vintage Gillettes I own which include open combs, TTOs, adjustables, and a few Techs. I get BBS shaves with all of them easily. I do shave daily so there's that.
 
The angle is the angle based on my experience with any razor. Very little adjustment to use a razor most efficiently. I had an issue for some time with the DE89 but a couple months ago, @Alum Ladd made a suggestion to me regarding angle. I was so used to shaving with all my vintage Gillettes the same way that the tiniest adjustment with the DE89 solved my issue with that. I don't understand the "riding the bar", "riding the cap" method. There is an optimum angle for each razor. Past that, it seems to be about light pressure and a good blade. I shave all three directions with multiple passes with any of my 10-11 vintage Gillettes with zero issues.

One guess is you might not have reduced your whiskers enough before you start your ATG pass. By that point, the reduction should be at the point to make an ATG pass easy.
Agree on optimum angle. But even using it at the best cutting angle, I found it to be quite narrow.

Few degrees past that it doesn’t cut. When it catches, it immediately begins pulling.

I’m going ATG with whiskers as reduced as possible.

This is so weird man, I don’t have any issues ATG with any other razors, from aggressive to mild.

I really want to like these vintages, but I have a red and sore neck right now.

Ultimately if I can’t figure this out, I’ll eliminate ATG with Gillettes.

I really don’t want to get to this point… 😕
 
When the blade catches, tugging and pulling
Or maybe too mild setup for you? I’m no expert on TTO either I have only one TTO and I’m not very happy with how this razor works. Very mild most of the time and then suddenly aggressive if I don’t get my angle right.
 
No. You have to adapt to the tool, it doesn't adapt to you. You can look in my profile About to see the various vintage Gillettes I own which include open combs, TTOs, adjustables, and a few Techs. I get BBS shaves with all of them easily. I do shave daily so there's that.
Agree 100%.

I also shave daily. 2 or 3 passes depending on the razor.

I appreciate your input sir.
 
Or maybe too mild setup for you? I’m no expert on TTO either I have only one TTO and I’m not very happy with how this razor works. Very mild most of the time and then suddenly aggressive if I don’t get my angle right.
You basically narrowed it down perfectly with this last sentence.

That’s exactly how it feels to me. From not effective to pulling and hurting with the slightest change of head angle.
 
Anyone?

Just tried to use a steeper angle few minutes ago. Red tip and 40s SS.

Just can’t, amazing. These TTO design seems to have a fixed and quite narrow angle.

I tried every ATG angle possible, there’s no middle ground. Go steep, it’s just the guard wiping the lather.

When the blade catches, tugging and pulling begins.

It’s so weird and so disappointing.

Well I guess these Gillettes will be WTG/XTG only razors.

At least for now.
First pass WTG steep angle to below jawline. Neck strokes 45 degrees inward towards adams apple. Repeat other side.

Second pass XTG steep angle. Jawline and neck strokes as horizontal as you can. Employ skin stretching if needed.

Third pass ATG shallow angle - ride the guard - just upward vertical strokes. Again, skin stretch as needed

Try that Alex.

I'm a bit confused when you speak of angles not working. You just adjust the head angle instinctivley until the blade is slicing. You should not be getting tugging, these are forgiving razors, especially the SuperSpeeds.

Is your lather good. Sounds like you may not be getting good soap coverage on your neck in the last pass.

What blades are you using. Some blades don't work the same in a Red as they do a Super

What soap?
 
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First pass WTG steep angle to below jawline. Neck strokes 45 degrees inward towards adams apple. Repeat other side.

Second pass XTG steep angle. Jawline and neck strokes as horizontal as you can. Employ skin stretching if needed.

Third pass ATG shallow angle - ride the guard - just upward vertical strokes. Again, skin stretch as needed

Try that Alex.

I'm a bit confused when you speak of angles not working. You just adjust the head angle instinctivley until the blade is slicing. You should not be getting tugging, these are forgiving razors, especially the SuperSpeeds.

Is your lather good. Sounds like you may not be getting good soap coverage on your neck in the last pass.
That’s exactly the issue I’m having. Shallow ATG pass.

It’s simply not working, so much pulling. The razor literally hurts as it’s gliding.

Skin stretching, not stretching, slickest lather, different blades, short precise strokes, longer strokes, no pressure, a little pressure, I’ve tried it all.

So I thought, maybe I’ll try steeper ATG, as I do with other razors.

Only a slight angle change towards steep and the razor stops cutting, the blade doesn’t even make contact with the skin. Even with pressure, nada.

I know this is not a fact, but it seems to me the safety guard design makes it so restrictive angle wise and regarding blade feel.

Maybe I’m used to some positive blade exposure?

Blades - BIC, Gillette platinum, astra SP, derby extra…

Proraso, cella, arko, even barbasol. 🤷‍♂️
 
That’s exactly the issue I’m having. Shallow ATG pass.

It’s simply not working, so much pulling. The razor literally hurts as it’s gliding.

Skin stretching, not stretching, slickest lather, different blades, short precise strokes, longer strokes, no pressure, a little pressure, I’ve tried it all.

So I thought, maybe I’ll try steeper ATG, as I do with other razors.

Only a slight angle change towards steep and the razor stops cutting, the blade doesn’t even make contact with the skin. Even with pressure, nada.

I know this is not a fact, but it seems to me the safety guard design makes it so restrictive angle wise and regarding blade feel.

Maybe I’m used to some positive blade exposure?

Blades - BIC, Gillette platinum, astra SP, derby extra…

Proraso, cella, arko, even barbasol. 🤷‍♂️
But you are not getting this problem with the Tech?
 
What blades have you tried? I have no problem shaving ATG as a 3rd pass with any of my vintage Gillettes. Those include assorted Techs and a couple of TTO Slims. I generally use Astra SP, 7 o'clock Yellow or, occasionally, BIC Chrome blades. I can't shave my top lip ATG with a crappy TTO, like my Wilkinson Sword metal classic (aka Weishi 9306-P) or anything else with poor blade rigidity. I've also had great success lately ATG with thick cap Old Types (1920's).
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
You’ve probably already tried this but just in case. Hmmmmmmm, I just reread your first post. I’m assuming that you’ve mapped your whisker growth patterns. Mine are strange on my neck and chin, so a south to north pass isn’t really against the grain. Like I said, you’ve probably already know your face.

I have two Vintage Gillette TTOs in the queue I haven’t tried yet but the Vintage Tech I have works the same as my modern razors after I adapt to their preferred shave angle.

It’s a bit puzzling. @CCS might figure out what is happening as this thread continues. I know he’s already weighed in but sometimes it takes a few posts to get to the bottom of an issue. He isn’t the only one here with years of experience using Vintage Gillette razors but he is of them.
 
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