Can a straight razor last a lifetime?

[Namkcakram]

Seeing something yourself is also first hand.

That is unquestionably an incorrect characterization of this situation. Our member here is recounting his memory of being told a portion of the back story of one razor out of two that he observed.

If our member was there and witnessed every shave that would be first hand for him.

 

[Twelvefret]

That is unquestionably an incorrect characterization of this situation. Our member here is recounting his memory of being told a portion of the back story of one razor out of two that he observed.

If our member was there and witnessed every shave that would be first hand for him.

Review post 58

 

[Namkcakram]

Review post 58

I have, you need to... it’s a story of his grandfather showing two razors and sharing that one particularly worn one he’s had since 16 yrs old. That’s second hand for him. He has no idea what that razor was put through every day. The grandfathers knowledge of it and it’s use is first hand TO THE GRANDFATHER himself, and second hand to anyone else who wasn’t there for every use of that blade. That’s the hard line in qualifying sources. There is no negotiating on this. We are dealing in established definitions pertaining to qualifying sources, and this falls below the threshold for first hand knowledge.

 

[dundak]

Depends. My first razor I obtained when I was 15-16. It lasted about 7 years of daily use and travel. My ignorance led me to over hone it a lot and take typical teenage care of it. My second lasted about 15. I retired this one when the edge started to migrate into the belly of the grind. From honing and maintainece. It still shaved and looked great but did not give the shave it was once capable of.

I now have a plethora of razors but tend to use just one 90 percent of the time. On average I’d say you could get a good 15-20 years out of a straight The is used daily with the occasional weeknight touch up. Bout 400 shaves a year. You can stretch it further if minimize your honing and rely more on leather and pastes, saving a fine hone for those occasions to true up all the facets once maybe twice a year. Ymmv and all that.

You could push a razor further but once you are honing into the belly it loses its mojo to me. I can feel a pronounced difference.


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[Namkcakram]

Depends. My first razor I obtained when I was 15-16. It lasted about 7 years of daily use and travel. My ignorance led me to over hone it a lot and take typical teenage care of it. My second lasted about 15. I retired this one when the edge started to migrate into the belly of the grind. From honing and maintainece. It still shaved and looked great but did not give the shave it was once capable of.

I now have a plethora of razors but tend to use just one 90 percent of the time. On average I’d say you could get a good 15-20 years out of a straight The is used daily with the occasional weeknight touch up. Bout 400 shaves a year. You can stretch it further if minimize your honing and rely more on leather and pastes, saving a fine hone for those occasions to true up all the facets once maybe twice a year. Ymmv and all that.

You could push a razor further but once you are honing into the belly it loses its mojo to me. I can feel a pronounced difference.


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^^^this is first hand knowledge @Twelvefret . This man himself used blades start to finish. Our reading this and accepting it as real is second hand knowledge.

 

[dundak]

^^^this is first hand knowledge @Twelvefret . This man himself used blades start to finish. Our reading this and accepting it as real is second hand knowledge.

No it’s just an opinion. I think certain grinds have inherent lifetimes. You can always find razors that people used from 6/8 and honed them down to 3/8 over time. Guess necessity required them to.


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[steveclarkus]

I do 50 laps on .1u paste balsa after every shave and can’t imagine wearing one down in only one lifetime.

 

[Twelvefret]

I do 50 laps on .1u paste balsa after every shave and can’t imagine wearing one down in only one lifetime.

Me either.

 

[Twelvefret]

^^^this is first hand knowledge @Twelvefret . This man himself used blades start to finish. Our reading this and accepting it as real is second hand knowledge.

The grandfather was the primary source. The grandson took the first person testimony from the primary source. Second hand testimony is taken from someone who did not witness the primary source but depended upon repeated testimony. Given post #58, we know the account was given as first hand experience of the primary source.

In order to be respectful, I am assuming the grandfather provided a true and accurate account of his use of a SR his entire life. That he had a second razor is no more spectacular than we having three pocket knives that I carry from day to day. Had he a week set, you might have more of a point.

Ironically, today some members here might not be able to obtain a life of use because of excessive honing. I'd say going forward that unless someone of us begin to respect the ancient razor more there will be no non abused razors for our posterity.

 

[Namkcakram]

The grandfather was the primary source. The grandson took the first person testimony from the primary source. Second hand testimony is taken from someone who did not witness the primary source but depended upon repeated testimony. Given post #58, we know the account was given as first hand experience of the primary source.

You’re off by one still. First hand account is an actual legally important definition, and only us hearing the account directly from the grandfather himself as the razor user would qualify as a first hand account. What we have is an account of an account of a lifetime of use NOT observation of that lifetime of use which is second hand, or in legal terms dismissible as “hearsay”. It’s also worth noting that even first person testimony doesn’t meet any type of scientific measurement criteria. Nobody has ever won a Nobel prize or NSF prize based on eye witness testimony. This thread really is worthless without any data for or against 70+ years of razor use, and that data doesn’t exist because when razors were in widespread use they were considered consumable tools.

If you really don’t understand the definitions at play here it’s ok, but it’s not a first hand account meaning we could be missing key details still and since the razor user is not the forum member we lack the ability to ask any direct questions and fill in any blanks.

 

[Twelvefret]

You’re off by one still. First hand account is an actual legally important definition, and only us hearing the account directly from the grandfather himself as the razor user would qualify as a first hand account. What we have is an account of an account of a lifetime of use NOT observation of that lifetime of use which is second hand, or in legal terms dismissible as “hearsay”. It’s also worth noting that even first person testimony doesn’t meet any type of scientific measurement criteria. Nobody has ever won a Nobel prize or NSF prize based on eye witness testimony. This thread really is worthless without any data for or against 70+ years of razor use, and that data doesn’t exist because when razors were in widespread use they were considered consumable tools.

If you really don’t understand the definitions at play here it’s ok, but it’s not a first hand account meaning we could be missing key details still and since the razor user is not the forum member we lack the ability to ask any direct questions and fill in any blanks.

In post #58 the member says he heard his grandfather directly. That's a first hand account. It fits the legal definition as you say. Please don't dive under a rock suggesting I don't understand something. You're better than that I trust.

 

[Namkcakram]

In post #58 the member says he heard his grandfather directly. That's a first hand account. It fits the legal definition as you say. Please don't dive under a rock suggesting I don't understand something. You're better than that I trust.

It’s not a first hand account except by the person who used the razor all his life. The chain of custody here goes:

The razor used-> grandfather-> witness who is a forum member

Note that’s 2 degrees of separation from the item in question. Therefore the grandfather who used the razor witnesses the razors use day after day over time is the first hand account. The forum member here who discussed with his grandfather limited details of that razor and witnessed the razor only late in its life cycle is now the second hand account. The life and use of the razor is the object of interest here. This is cold hard math 1 + 1 = 2. I’m not sure why this is a difficult concept. If our forum member were asked difficult questions about this razor he would not be able to answer because the razor is not his and he was not the user who witnessed its long life every day. Legally second hand testimony amounting to hearsay. There is no wiggle room in these definitions or the nature of this story.

 

[Twelvefret]

It’s not a first hand account except by the person who used the razor all his life. The chain of custody here goes:

The razor used-> grandfather-> witness who is a forum member

Note that’s 2 degrees of separation from the item in question. Therefore the grandfather who used the razor witnesses the razors use day after day over time is the first hand account. The forum member here who discussed with his grandfather limited details of that razor and witnessed the razor late in its life cycle is now the second hand account. The life and use of the razor is the object of interest here. This is cold hard math 1 + 1 = 2. I’m not sure why this is a difficult concept. If our forum member were asked difficult questions about this razor he would not be able to answer because the razor is not his and he was not the user who witnessed its long life every day. Legally second hand testimony amounting to hearsay. There is no wiggle room in these definitions or the nature of this story.

The forum member is providing a first hand account of a primary source aka the person who experienced the event.

First person testimony - the account of a person who actually participated in an event. Examples are oral history interviews, diaries, letters, photographs and drawings of events, and court testimony of an eyewitness.
What is a Primary Source? | Smithsonian Institution Archives
siarchives.si.edu/history/featured-topics/stories/what-primary-source

 

[steveclarkus]

Whatever, I can’t imagine honing a razor to uselessness in a lifetime. Our granddads didn’t go out and buy razors by the handful and hone them obsessively like we do. They probably had two at most. Most of their money went to food and housing. A razor was a necessity and two would have been a luxury. Many of us could probably stock a normal hardware of the time. My barber showed me his old razor and except for the tarnish,’it looks just fine.

 

[Twelvefret]

Whatever, I can’t imagine honing a razor to uselessness in a lifetime. Our granddads didn’t go out and buy razors by the handful and hone them obsessively like we do. They probably had two at most. Most of their money went to food and housing. A razor was a necessity and two would have been a luxury. Many of us could probably stock a normal hardware of the time. My barber showed me his old razor and except for the tarnish,’it looks just fine.

Very well said, Steve. I’m here because my grand mother gave me her fathers SR. The blade was tarnished, but well preserved. Nothing like the clippers abuse on eBay.

 

[steveclarkus]

Very well said, Steve. I’m here because my grand mother gave me her fathers SR. The blade was tarnished, but well preserved. Nothing like the clippers abuse on eBay.

You are very fortunate. My dad asked his dad for his razor when he went DE and granddad refused to give it to him saying dad wouldn’t be able to sharpen it. He was a fussy old dude. I never saw it. No idea where it went. I do faintly remember a strop in the bathroom. Common people back then just didn’t have many “things” like we do. Come to think of it, there weren’t many “things” to have in the first place.

 

[Namkcakram]

The forum member is providing a first hand account of a primary source aka the person who experienced the event.

First person testimony - the account of a person who actually participated in an event. Examples are oral history interviews, diaries, letters, photographs and drawings of events, and court testimony of an eyewitness.
What is a Primary Source? | Smithsonian Institution Archives
siarchives.si.edu/history/featured-topics/stories/what-primary-source

Exactly!!! It’s a primary account of a conversation with the actual user and witness of the actual straight razor’s full life cycle... the witness who knew and talked to the witness of an event or series of events is a second hand witness. This is fundamentally a secondary account when the issue at hand is the full life and use of the razor. You’re basically trying to rule out the grandfather completely by saying the member saw a razor once and now knows everything about it’s use over 70 years, which obviously is not the case. He’s literally removed from being a first hand witness by a full 2 generations. If he were to try and answer literally any specifics about that razors use, could he? How often was it honed? He wasn’t there. Where was it purchased? He wasn’t there. How often was it shaved with? He wasnt there. How many passes per shave? He wasn’t there. A witness to one of a whole series of events in question is not a witness, it’s a witness who met the witness we need to speak with and discussed the events in question once or twice. Second hand account- this is not a difficult concept. You need to understand what the issue at hand here is: the lifecycle of a razor. Lifecycle does not mean “have you ever seen a razor that was verifiably old with no proven complete history of use?”

The definition you quoted defines the grandfathers role as the only person in this story who participated in the full life cycle of this razor. Grandpa is the first hand witness and the only first hand witness. Anyone else hearing a partial testimony from him and repeating it has limited knowledge and is a second hand witness with their testimony being hearsay as they were not actually there for the events in question. Events in question here are pre-dating the birth of the person you are insisting is a first hand witness.

 

[Twelvefret]

You are very fortunate. My dad asked his dad for his razor when he went DE and granddad refused to give it to him saying dad wouldn’t be able to sharpen it. He was a fussy old dude. I never saw it. No idea where it went. I do faintly remember a strop in the bathroom. Common people back then just didn’t have many “things” like we do. Come to think of it, there weren’t many “things” to have in the first place.

So true and they knew how to take care of the tools they had so they would last.

I’ve got a Boker Barlow from the ‘40’s that has a custom blade for detail work.

The man who made my fiddle used cross cut saw blades to make custom carving blades for specific purposes. Folks used, but respected their tools. That’s why for me it’s not surprising the gentleman’s grandfather was able to use his razor his adult life.