rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
I read that some who have tried Feather DE blades say they are too sharp for their liking. This got me thinking.
Can a SR edge be too sharp?
Can a SR edge be too sharp?
Can a SR Edge be Too Sharp?
- Thread starter rbscebu
- Start date
Imo, it's more about the quality of the edge, if you got scratches down to the apex its going to feel rough and be prone to cut skin.
Going from my 8k synthetic straight to my ark gets me a very sharp edge but can be rough (meaning I still have 8k scratches down to the apex). Still cuts better and feels better on the skin than a feather blade.
The way I see it atleast.
Going from my 8k synthetic straight to my ark gets me a very sharp edge but can be rough (meaning I still have 8k scratches down to the apex). Still cuts better and feels better on the skin than a feather blade.
The way I see it atleast.
You might notice a lot of the people who’ve been doing this for a while end up going for natural finish stones that yield edges with certain qualities as opposed to just aiming for maximum keen. That doesn’t necessarily signal that “too keen” is a problem, but it signals that other characteristics are more important for most experienced users.
Everyone’s face/beard is different though so there are also people who stay chasing the keenest edge possible.
I think the most bang for the buck is an Arkansas finisher... keen enough for almost anybody, forgiving enough for almost anybody, relatively dirt cheap per square inch.
Everyone’s face/beard is different though so there are also people who stay chasing the keenest edge possible.
I think the most bang for the buck is an Arkansas finisher... keen enough for almost anybody, forgiving enough for almost anybody, relatively dirt cheap per square inch.
I don't find Feather blades to be too sharp
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Very much a YMMV thing, but as for me, no, the sharpest edge that can possibly be put on steel is not too sharp. I like sharp. I revel in sharp. Especially if it is sharp and smooth. I am always chasing that dragon, seeking ever sharper edges. I like when a single WTG pass gives me a nice shave. With very sharp edges, shave technique has to be a little different from using a more mainstream edge. Skin tighter. Shave angle lower. No slicing strokes. It is a bit different, and those who don't quickly adapt to an extremely sharp edge right away, will have problems.
Funny you should mention Feathers. My favorite DE blades. I very rarely shave with a DE razor but I am prone to picking up one of my half DE blade shavettes now and then, and Feathers are my go-to blade. I love the effortless way they glide through my beard, even ATG on the one and only pass, under the chin. So nice, when used properly. Low angle, spine practically dragging, nice tight skin. And Feathers have for a long time been my honing benchmark. When I can match a Feather, I walk a little prouder, stand a little taller. When I don't, well, try harder next time. I don't know if I can say I have surpassed a Feather in cutting power, but I can definitely say that sometimes I can match it, with The Method, on a good razor. With the typical 12k kit, you won't get there. With green and red paste, you won't get there. Nice edge, yeah, but not the crazy sharp that guys are talking about when they say an edge is too sharp.
You don't NEED an edge like that to shave. Hey, back in the day, a Norton 8k was for many shavers a very good finisher, and before that, a barber hone was considered perfectly satisfactory. With good shave technique a hyper sharp edge is not needed just to get a good three pass shave. But the dragon is out there for the chasing. On the way, you can pick up some nice single pass shaves with zero irritation. 12k or 1u is not a speed limit. It is a takeoff point.
Objectively speaking; no
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
No. A SR edge can feel too sharp, irritating, easy to nick, etc, but those are symptoms of ‘not sharp enough’.
Personally, I prefer a wicked sharp edge. Feather DE blades are they only blades I buy. And yes, I occasionally use my AS-D2, Fatboy, Slim, or Tech. I've found that shaving with a straight makes my DE shaves absolutely effortless and perfect. A nice side effect when my morning is too rushed for a straight razor shave. Again - YMMV
Well, I think it's probable. Depends on the definition of "sharp".
A member here by the handle of Fuzzy Chops has postulated that, yes, straights are as sharp BUT they are not as keen. His definitions of sharp and keen are the crux of his argument. He backs up his argument with SE microscope pictures.
For me I want keen and smooth. I've gotten there so I'm happy.
Chris
A member here by the handle of Fuzzy Chops has postulated that, yes, straights are as sharp BUT they are not as keen. His definitions of sharp and keen are the crux of his argument. He backs up his argument with SE microscope pictures.
For me I want keen and smooth. I've gotten there so I'm happy.
Chris
Not in my opinion.
Makes sense. You may get the apex of the edge just as small on both but it would be near impossible to get the width of the bevel on an SR as small as a DE. It would not be able to support the edge like a coated DE blade in a clamped DE razor.
Sharp is sharp, keen is smooth. I'd prefer a slightly wider apex but a narrower bevel vs a smaller apex and wider bevel.
It's when you go for the zero apex edge you end up with a wire edge that is sharp as the dickens but...no mas for me
I think it’s a little silly to put the feather blades on some kind of unattainable pinnacle...
They’re around 19* included angle, hum drum mass produced steel, and not ground or polished to any degree I would expect to compete with a straight razor honed to perfection by a pro.
I’ve got plenty of straights with much better steel and angles down into the 13s while still being a better supported edge IMO... just doing some surface level objective analysis it’s not hard to imagine there are plenty of straights out there right this instant with objectively better edges on them than any manufactured blade.
Call it sharp, call it keen, call it whatever you want- I firmly believe there are plenty on this forum with straight edges that are superior to a feather. I think those individuals don’t jump in on these threads anymore because this seems to be a recurring discussion with the masses always deciding the feather edge is somehow better despite with no measurements tests or indications.
They’re around 19* included angle, hum drum mass produced steel, and not ground or polished to any degree I would expect to compete with a straight razor honed to perfection by a pro.
I’ve got plenty of straights with much better steel and angles down into the 13s while still being a better supported edge IMO... just doing some surface level objective analysis it’s not hard to imagine there are plenty of straights out there right this instant with objectively better edges on them than any manufactured blade.
Call it sharp, call it keen, call it whatever you want- I firmly believe there are plenty on this forum with straight edges that are superior to a feather. I think those individuals don’t jump in on these threads anymore because this seems to be a recurring discussion with the masses always deciding the feather edge is somehow better despite with no measurements tests or indications.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Obviously not unattainable. Pretty hard act to beat, though. Talking about pure whisker cutting power, not numbers. You can engineer an edge with whatever numbers you want, and certainly a 19 degree bevel angle can easily be beat. But remember also that a DE blade is meant to be used for several shaves without stropping. It is a different set of requirements.
Sharp to me, in my imprecise way of looking at things. is ability to shave quickly, smoothly, closely, comfortably, in any direction desired, with a practical edge lifespan.
Keep in mind also that DE razor is not the best showcase of sharpness for a DE blade. That would be a shavette, which gives you much fuller control of the shave angle. Put half of a Feather in a shavette and get used to shaving with that, and I think you will agree that a Feather is a pretty darn sharp edge. Matching it with a straight is difficult. Beating it is more difficult. Nearly impossible, given the requirement that the razor end the shave at least nearly as sharp as it began the shave.
Most professionally honed edges fall well short of the mark. I have only ever had ONE professionally honed edge astonish me with its cutting power, and only a couple that satisfied me enough to not want to touch up after the first shave. A pro can't fuss over an edge for half a day the way a dragon-chasing hobbyist honing his own razor can. The pro has to justify the time spent for the dollars earned. Dragon-chasing is inherently illogical and so it does not have an economic factor.
Im kind of new here but I expect this is a topic that has been discussed oh so many times already. Still...
How do you assess sharp?
You have the HHT and Treetopping. I feel these tests somewhat lies. I can produce a SR edge clearly outperforming a slightly used FAC blade in treetopping, but clearly not in shaving.
You may asses edge geometry with your hightech electronmicroscope. Sadly, most of us dont have access to such tools.
What about the shavetest?
I am guessing most people here can ”feel” the sharpness within a second of using it. I am not there yet.
I see it like this. Perfect blade would shave everything off with first stroke. Second stroke would be silent and not catch anything. FAC blades are close to this, with my SR I need to keep scraping a few times before it shuts up. With a blunt blade you can keep on scraping the wiskers will never shut up.
How do you assess sharp?
You have the HHT and Treetopping. I feel these tests somewhat lies. I can produce a SR edge clearly outperforming a slightly used FAC blade in treetopping, but clearly not in shaving.
You may asses edge geometry with your hightech electronmicroscope. Sadly, most of us dont have access to such tools.
What about the shavetest?
I am guessing most people here can ”feel” the sharpness within a second of using it. I am not there yet.
I see it like this. Perfect blade would shave everything off with first stroke. Second stroke would be silent and not catch anything. FAC blades are close to this, with my SR I need to keep scraping a few times before it shuts up. With a blunt blade you can keep on scraping the wiskers will never shut up.
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Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
The shave test is both the most relevant and at the same time the most subjective test. HHT and Treetopping are an effort at (1) Standardization, and (2) testing without waiting for whiskers to grow back out for a shave. You can really only shave test maybe two edges in a day. And you can't very well have another shave or even a half shave between stages of a progression. As for standardization both leave a little to be desired, since hair texture varies wildly between samples, and the actual technique is somewhat individualized. Nevertheless that is what we got.
The shave test depends a LOT on the razor. The very sharpest blade will take hair off the quietest, but only within a particular grind, hardness, and alloy. And hair texture. If you have an extra full hollow it will make a lot more noise than a quarter hollow. But if you compare only extra full hollows of the same steel and the same hardness on the same face, a sharper blade will be quieter. So it is a thing, but it depends on many other factors. What really matters is whether or not a razor will cut every whisker before it, closely, with the least trauma to the skin, and the fewest passes. Even that is subjective. The only truly objective measure is actual dimensions of the edge, but that isn't always as relevant to THE SHAVE as it logically ought to be.
Bottom line is simply assess edge performance in whatever way suits you, but it is good to understand how others judge an edge as well.
I like sharp blades, both DE and SR. The problem is not with the sharpness of the edge, but with the smoothness. When you hone a straight razor, you are using ever finer abrasives to make the edge thinner. The thinner the edge, the sharper it will be. However, at some point, the edge will be so thin that the steel is no longer mechanically stable and the edge will begin to crumble, a phenomena often called micro-chipping. This type of edge can be very irritating to the skin.
The point at which micro-chipping begins to occur depends upon the quality of the steel used in the razor and the quality of the heat treatment. It also depends upon the way the blade is honed. If too much pressure is applied when using finer grit abrasives, the edge is likely to crumble.
I have one razor that has poor quality steel (either composition or tempering). I have tried a dozen different methods in honing that razor and have yet to find a way to make the blade sharp enough to shave my coarse beard and yet be smooth enough for my sensitive skin.
With most blades, I have no issue achieving that result. However, in order to be sharp enough for my beard, the blade becomes so thin that it deteriorates quickly in use. Thus, I have to rehone my blades every 5-6 shaves. Fortunately, I only need to use high-grit finishing hones to restore the edges. Some folks can use a DE blade for dozens of shaves. Some folks can use a straight razor for months with nothing but stropping. Unfortunately, I cannot do either.
Hmm.. Shavettes are quiet souls compared to full hollows. So this clearly gives them an edge in the subjective sharpness competition. They will also keep more quiet when skipping a whisker or two.
I am glad you gave this complex answer rather than ”when you have SR shaved for halv a century you immediately can tell ...”
For me a feather in a DE razor is fine wtg for me but for atg on my upper lip it tugs very badly and I get cut even if I try to attempt it, feathers for me feel like a SR with microchips in it.
Maybe the shavette is better with feather blades, I dont know, but what I do know is that a DE with a feather blade in it comes not even close to a nice SR edge in sharpness, keenness and smoothness for me.
All our experiences, techniques and skin are different so none can tell anyone that they are wrong, just what works for them.
I love that we all can share experiences on this forum. Merry Christmas to you all!
Maybe the shavette is better with feather blades, I dont know, but what I do know is that a DE with a feather blade in it comes not even close to a nice SR edge in sharpness, keenness and smoothness for me.
All our experiences, techniques and skin are different so none can tell anyone that they are wrong, just what works for them.
I love that we all can share experiences on this forum. Merry Christmas to you all!
