Thanks, Cal. This is all useful to me, as I ponder whether to try these highly touted soaps myself. I could calculate my soap cost per shave with my soaps in regular rotation . . . but I think the result would bug me if I did. 
Cal's "I don't do journals" Journal
- Thread starter Cal
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #42
And they say "it's only shaving."I could calculate my soap cost per shave with my soaps in regular rotation . . . but I think the result would bug me if I did.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
If I ponder very long the cost per shave calculations it puts me in territory I don't like.
It's not the cost per shave which is my issue. Mine is the cost of not shaving.
You probably know what I mean if you think about it. I have all these shaving soaps which I've purchased. Every container has enough soap for a certain number of shaves. Some, like MdC have maybe 200 shaves. Some might have maybe 60 shaves. Obviously that number is important, but it is not the most important number. The most important number is 1.
I shave once a day. I already have enough soap to last more days than I'm likely to live, and I'm likely to buy more. Thus the cost per shave is meaningless compared to the cost of not shaving.
Happy shaves, regardless of cost,
Jim
It's not the cost per shave which is my issue. Mine is the cost of not shaving.
You probably know what I mean if you think about it. I have all these shaving soaps which I've purchased. Every container has enough soap for a certain number of shaves. Some, like MdC have maybe 200 shaves. Some might have maybe 60 shaves. Obviously that number is important, but it is not the most important number. The most important number is 1.
I shave once a day. I already have enough soap to last more days than I'm likely to live, and I'm likely to buy more. Thus the cost per shave is meaningless compared to the cost of not shaving.
Happy shaves, regardless of cost,
Jim
Precisely. I knew this is what I meant even when I didn't know what I meant.
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
You shopaholics do amuse me 
I use Mitchell's Wool Fat for nearly every shave, and I estimate I get around 450-500 shaves from a puck. When it's nearly finished I'll buy another. I do have a few spare Palmolive sticks which I use for travel, but I seem to keep giving these away. I haven't finished one yet.
I'll be keeping my eye on your adventures, Cal
I use Mitchell's Wool Fat for nearly every shave, and I estimate I get around 450-500 shaves from a puck. When it's nearly finished I'll buy another. I do have a few spare Palmolive sticks which I use for travel, but I seem to keep giving these away. I haven't finished one yet.
I'll be keeping my eye on your adventures, Cal
Thank you Cal for posting your findings. I do find this fascinating because it is commonly held that Mdc is actually less expensive because it uses less product. It did load almost half less than you did of the Proraso, but that comes to 12.7p and Proraso 2.3p with Mdc costing 5 1/2 times more. I also find it fascinating, though not surprised, that you found both soaps to be similar performance wise. I think there may be a savings when it comes to more expensive triple milled soaps in the high end scale, not sure, but when you factor the cost it's probably a minimal savings at best. What I take from this is; buy Mdc because you enjoy everything about it. I do want to try it at some point.Following my delightful MdC Citrus experience I've just completed my seventh Proraso Red shave (and will be moving on to MWF next).
View attachment 881185
OVERVIEW:
I could happily use MdC Citrus only. It just has the edge (albeit only slightly) over my beloved Proraso Red. Both soaps have subtle scents which please my nose and which I could happily sniff ad aeternum.
As the MdC costs ~5½ times more per shave than the Proraso Red... I'll be sticking with my original love.
Performance wise I found both to be very similar. Lather making, although easy, does need dialing in for each (don't we all have our little idiosyncracies?). The main plus point I give to MdC is the way that it generates hardly any soap scum in the water compared to good ol' scumbag Proraso Red.
NUMBER CRUNCHING:
Here in the UK, MdC Citrus costs £38.50 for 200g (19.25p per gram) and Proraso Red costs £3.50 for 150g (2.33p per gram).
My average use per shave for the MdC was 0.66g (= 12.7p cost) and for the Proraso Red was 1.00g (= 2.3p cost).
MOVING ON:
My next shave will be with Mitchell's Wool Fat (completely new to me [as was MdC]). I'll report back with comparisons after seven shaves.
FOOTNOTE:
In general I find it takes me ~3 to 4 shaves to dial any soap in properly, that includes soaps that I know when changing from one to another. It can be tempting to change soaps daily (which many people do) but if I did that I'd never get the best performance (and satisfaction) out of my stuff... so a week on any soap is (currently) my minimum.
I'm wondering if my "3-to-4-shaves-dial-in" will still be the case with the notorious MWF.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Rave, I have and use both Proraso Red in a tub and MdC.
I want to make sure I don't say anything bad about Proraso Red. It is a very, very good shaving soap for me. I like just about everything about it, and would be very hard pressed to say anything bad about it, or even remotely bad.
That said, MdC is a superior shaving soap.
I'm not saying MdC is the soap everyone should use. I'm not saying MdC is the only superior soap. I'm sure there are people who have tried it and haven't like it, or haven't liked it as much a they liked another soap.
If I had to use Proraso Red in a tub every day forever it wouldn't be that I'd think about growing a full beard. I like the soap, but every time I use MdC I find myself thinking the same thing.
Using MdC, I think to myself, "Why use any other shaving soap but this one?"
The only disadvantage of MdC is the entry fee. The cost per shave is a lot more than the cost per shave of Proraso (and thanks to Cal for going to the trouble to demonstrate that; it is much needed information on every soap and sorely lacking on most).
Still, we're talking what, a few cents per shave for MdC? There are other soaps I consider in the superior category, and a few right on the cusp of that category, but one other thing which really impresses me about MdC is the consistently good shaves I get with it. It is the only soap I use where I almost always find my shave to be closer than I thought during the shave it would turn out to be. For me, that is a big deal.
I enjoy everything about both soaps.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Following my delightful MdC Citrus experience I've just completed my seventh Proraso Red shave (and will be moving on to MWF next).
View attachment 881185
OVERVIEW:
I could happily use MdC Citrus only. It just has the edge (albeit only slightly) over my beloved Proraso Red. Both soaps have subtle scents which please my nose and which I could happily sniff ad aeternum.
As the MdC costs ~5½ times more per shave than the Proraso Red... I'll be sticking with my original love.
Performance wise I found both to be very similar. Lather making, although easy, does need dialing in for each (don't we all have our little idiosyncracies?). The main plus point I give to MdC is the way that it generates hardly any soap scum in the water compared to good ol' scumbag Proraso Red.
NUMBER CRUNCHING:
Here in the UK, MdC Citrus costs £38.50 for 200g (19.25p per gram) and Proraso Red costs £3.50 for 150g (2.33p per gram).
My average use per shave for the MdC was 0.66g (= 12.7p cost) and for the Proraso Red was 1.00g (= 2.3p cost).
MOVING ON:
My next shave will be with Mitchell's Wool Fat (completely new to me [as was MdC]). I'll report back with comparisons after seven shaves.
FOOTNOTE:
In general I find it takes me ~3 to 4 shaves to dial any soap in properly, that includes soaps that I know when changing from one to another. It can be tempting to change soaps daily (which many people do) but if I did that I'd never get the best performance (and satisfaction) out of my stuff... so a week on any soap is (currently) my minimum.
I'm wondering if my "3-to-4-shaves-dial-in" will still be the case with the notorious MWF.
@Cal: Are you still using the citric acid added to your sinkful of water?
If there wasn't any citric acid added, I think that could make a significant difference in the way that the soaps perform. Proraso Red has additives that help the soap lather in hard water that appear to be missing from MdC. Proraso Red could easily then perform as well, or even better, than MdC in the setting of hard water.
I do dislike the scum Proraso Red leaves everywhere though. That is my only real issue with Proraso's products. Makes it lather well in my hard water, but difficult to keep my razors clean...
- Thread starter
- #50
Definitely Joel!
And I'm now using it in my bathtub and washing machine too. The results are nothing short of wonderful for me. I don't itch any more after having a bath; my clothes and other washed items are softer and feel nicer in general; I hardly use any bathroom cleaner any more (stuff just doesn't get that dirty)... I could go on.
Tell me about it!
- Thread starter
- #51
SOTD
Brush: Shavemac D01 2-Band
Soap: MWF
Razor: Fatip Tortoise
Blade: Bic (16)
ASL: Proraso Red
This was my first MWF experience. I don't know if it was beginner's luck, but my lather was very nice (I face lather). So that was slick'n'thin lather for each of my two passes (1. XTG/Freestyle; 2. ATG/Freestyle) followed by a post-shave Santa Claus lather while I tidy up.* The result was my usual BBS, and feeling my face now I'd say it's a tad closer than my regular BBS (like feeling a freshly clayed, polished, and waxed car through a polythene bag).
The only thing that I find unusual about MWF is that it smells like... SOAP.
* It was Rudy @rudyt that suggested the post-shave lather to me, and I've been using it ever since.
Thanks Rudy!
Brush: Shavemac D01 2-Band
Soap: MWF
Razor: Fatip Tortoise
Blade: Bic (16)
ASL: Proraso Red
This was my first MWF experience. I don't know if it was beginner's luck, but my lather was very nice (I face lather). So that was slick'n'thin lather for each of my two passes (1. XTG/Freestyle; 2. ATG/Freestyle) followed by a post-shave Santa Claus lather while I tidy up.* The result was my usual BBS, and feeling my face now I'd say it's a tad closer than my regular BBS (like feeling a freshly clayed, polished, and waxed car through a polythene bag).
The only thing that I find unusual about MWF is that it smells like... SOAP.
* It was Rudy @rudyt that suggested the post-shave lather to me, and I've been using it ever since.
Thanks Rudy!
Lovely shave. But why does this post-shave feel not sound attractive to me?
- Thread starter
- #53
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
SOTD
Brush: Shavemac D01 2-Band
Soap: MWF
Razor: Fatip Tortoise
Blade: Bic (16)
ASL: Proraso Red
View attachment 881488
This was my first MWF experience. I don't know if it was beginner's luck, but my lather was very nice (I face lather). So that was slick'n'thin lather for each of my two passes (1. XTG/Freestyle; 2. ATG/Freestyle) followed by a post-shave Santa Claus lather while I tidy up.* The result was my usual BBS, and feeling my face now I'd say it's a tad closer than my regular BBS (like feeling a freshly clayed, polished, and waxed car through a polythene bag).
The only thing that I find unusual about MWF is that it smells like... SOAP.
* It was Rudy @rudyt that suggested the post-shave lather to me, and I've been using it ever since.
Thanks Rudy!
The purple label is nice, too.
I can't face lather if worth a hoot. I've not given up forever though. I used to really like it when I bowl lathered, but now it won't work for me. They say it's difficult, but I found it easy until I didn't.
I sometimes use the extra lather post-shave. Like today with the amazing Wholly Kaw. That stuff feels great. Like a pre-balm balm.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Like you, I'm a recent MWF convert and regret not trying it sooner. I have no trouble lathering it either, and find the lanolin in the post-shave really agrees with my leather-like hide. The post-shave lather pass on this soap is better than most because of the lanolin. Proraso Red's Shea butter and anything with Argan Oil also shine in the post-shave.This was my first MWF experience. I don't know if it was beginner's luck, but my lather was very nice (I face lather). So that was slick'n'thin lather for each of my two passes (1. XTG/Freestyle; 2. ATG/Freestyle) followed by a post-shave Santa Claus lather while I tidy up.* The result was my usual BBS, and feeling my face now I'd say it's a tad closer than my regular BBS (like feeling a freshly clayed, polished, and waxed car through a polythene bag).
The only thing that I find unusual about MWF is that it smells like... SOAP.
* It was Rudy @rudyt that suggested the post-shave lather to me, and I've been using it ever since.
Thanks Rudy!
I have a puck of Haslinger that will go in the Old Spice mug once the MWF is gone, but the MWF isn't eroding at all.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
What makes a really good shaving soap?
You'll notice that one of the ingredients of Wholly Kaw is lanolin. I'd guess that lanolin improves the soap's post-shave feel. I've used a lot of soaps with good post-shave feel. None surpass WK in that department (for me). MWF is widely acclaimed for its post-shave feel and it too has lanolin.
The problem I have with my amateur soap chemistry is there is such wife variation in the ingredients of some of the soaps I like the most. A number have various animal or vegetable oils or butters which may be the magic ingredients.
Some seem very much loaded with butters.
The ingredient list of one of my favorite soaps seems simple and relatively devoid of oils and butters.
It has been said that Martin de Candre shaving soap is just soap, that Martin de Candre is trying only to get one thing exactly right, and that is the shave itself. The expectation is you'll use a balm or a moisturizer if you need one, and the shaving oil is not designed to do more than facilitate a great shave.
In my experience MdC does just that. It delivers an excellent, very close shave. I also experience it as having an excellent post-shave feel. Not the same as the post-shave feel of Wholly Kaw or other soaps very rich in butter, but still excellent.
I know shaving soap manufacturing is not an arcane enterprise dominated by alchemists. It's been a long time since my days as a chemist; about all I remember from chemistry is Columbus discovered America in 1492. Even though I've read articles galore on the process of shaving soap making and the chemistry involved and the ingredients considered essential I have no idea what in the ingredients and manufacturing separates the very best soaps from the rest.
Aside from my ignorance, there's the question of what is causation and what is correlation. A truly knowledgeable shaving soap professional would certainly laugh at me and my foolish fumbling about with soaps. Some family business/secret family recipe/secret family tricks of the trade enterprises are now run by sons and daughters who were sent off to college to get a chemical engineering degree and an MBA, but I don't know it that has penetrated into the shaving soap world. I wouldn't be surprised.
What makes a really good soap? I have no idea.
Happy shaves,
Jim
You'll notice that one of the ingredients of Wholly Kaw is lanolin. I'd guess that lanolin improves the soap's post-shave feel. I've used a lot of soaps with good post-shave feel. None surpass WK in that department (for me). MWF is widely acclaimed for its post-shave feel and it too has lanolin.
The problem I have with my amateur soap chemistry is there is such wife variation in the ingredients of some of the soaps I like the most. A number have various animal or vegetable oils or butters which may be the magic ingredients.
Some seem very much loaded with butters.
The ingredient list of one of my favorite soaps seems simple and relatively devoid of oils and butters.
It has been said that Martin de Candre shaving soap is just soap, that Martin de Candre is trying only to get one thing exactly right, and that is the shave itself. The expectation is you'll use a balm or a moisturizer if you need one, and the shaving oil is not designed to do more than facilitate a great shave.
In my experience MdC does just that. It delivers an excellent, very close shave. I also experience it as having an excellent post-shave feel. Not the same as the post-shave feel of Wholly Kaw or other soaps very rich in butter, but still excellent.
I know shaving soap manufacturing is not an arcane enterprise dominated by alchemists. It's been a long time since my days as a chemist; about all I remember from chemistry is Columbus discovered America in 1492. Even though I've read articles galore on the process of shaving soap making and the chemistry involved and the ingredients considered essential I have no idea what in the ingredients and manufacturing separates the very best soaps from the rest.
Aside from my ignorance, there's the question of what is causation and what is correlation. A truly knowledgeable shaving soap professional would certainly laugh at me and my foolish fumbling about with soaps. Some family business/secret family recipe/secret family tricks of the trade enterprises are now run by sons and daughters who were sent off to college to get a chemical engineering degree and an MBA, but I don't know it that has penetrated into the shaving soap world. I wouldn't be surprised.
What makes a really good soap? I have no idea.
Happy shaves,
Jim
- Thread starter
- #57
I've just completed my first week (seven shaves) with Mitchell's Wool Fat and I must say that I like it very much. I do love and prefer the compelling scents of MdC Citrus and Proraso Red compared to the simple "soapy" scent of MWF though.
Here's my SOTD:
Brush: Shavemac D01 2-Band
Soap: Mitchell's Wool Fat
Razor: Fatip Tortoise
Blade: BiC Chrome Platinum (22)
Post-shave: More lather @rudyt style
ASL: Proraso Red
Excellent!
I intend continuing with "The Fat" for a further three weeks (to discover more of its nuances).
NUMBER CRUNCHING UPDATED to include MWF:
Here in the UK MdC Citrus costs £38.50 for 200g (19.25p per gram), Proraso Red costs £3.50 for 150g (2.33p per gram), and Mitchell's Wool Fat costs £6.95 for 125g (5.56p per gram).
My average use per shave for the MdC was 0.66g (= 12.7p cost), for the Proraso Red was 1.00g (= 2.3p cost), and for the Mitchell's Wool Fat was 0.33g (= 5.1p cost).
So compared to my benchmark soap (Proraso Red) the cost of MdC Citrus is ~5½ times more expensive per shave, and the cost of Mitchell's Wool Fat is ~2⅓ times more expensive per shave.
AND TALKING ABOUT SOAPS, WELL, LATHER ACTUALLY:
As half of the shaving world appears to be watching/contributing-to Grant's @ShavingByTheNumbers new thread "Time/Agitation Is Also an Ingredient When Building Lather" I thought I'd mention my own (current) lathering system (which appears to be pretty close to what Grant is doing, I think).
I don't like mess and I don't get it.
Here's my SOTD:
Brush: Shavemac D01 2-Band
Soap: Mitchell's Wool Fat
Razor: Fatip Tortoise
Blade: BiC Chrome Platinum (22)
Post-shave: More lather @rudyt style
ASL: Proraso Red
Excellent!
I intend continuing with "The Fat" for a further three weeks (to discover more of its nuances).NUMBER CRUNCHING UPDATED to include MWF:
Here in the UK MdC Citrus costs £38.50 for 200g (19.25p per gram), Proraso Red costs £3.50 for 150g (2.33p per gram), and Mitchell's Wool Fat costs £6.95 for 125g (5.56p per gram).
My average use per shave for the MdC was 0.66g (= 12.7p cost), for the Proraso Red was 1.00g (= 2.3p cost), and for the Mitchell's Wool Fat was 0.33g (= 5.1p cost).
So compared to my benchmark soap (Proraso Red) the cost of MdC Citrus is ~5½ times more expensive per shave, and the cost of Mitchell's Wool Fat is ~2⅓ times more expensive per shave.
AND TALKING ABOUT SOAPS, WELL, LATHER ACTUALLY:
As half of the shaving world appears to be watching/contributing-to Grant's @ShavingByTheNumbers new thread "Time/Agitation Is Also an Ingredient When Building Lather" I thought I'd mention my own (current) lathering system (which appears to be pretty close to what Grant is doing, I think).
- Dunk brush in warm water (for about one second), squeeze, then vigorously shake out (so that it's just damp and no more).
- Pick up as much water (from the sink) as I can with my fingertips and splash it on to the soap.
- Load the brush till it's hairs clump together and the puck is nearly dry again (about 30 seconds max).
- Quickly spread-on-to/work-in-to face.
- Dip brush tips into the sink water (and give the brush a vigorous shake in case I've overdone the water).
- Face lather (about 30 seconds max), then start shaving.
- If required I load more soap/water as I go, but it usually isn't required.
I don't like mess and I don't get it.
I've just completed my first week (seven shaves) with Mitchell's Wool Fat and I must say that I like it very much. I do love and prefer the compelling scents of MdC Citrus and Proraso Red compared to the simple "soapy" scent of MWF though.
Here's my SOTD:
Brush: Shavemac D01 2-Band
Soap: Mitchell's Wool Fat
Razor: Fatip Tortoise
Blade: BiC Chrome Platinum (22)
Post-shave: More lather @rudyt style
ASL: Proraso Red
View attachment 882779
Excellent!
NUMBER CRUNCHING UPDATED to include MWF:
Here in the UK MdC Citrus costs £38.50 for 200g (19.25p per gram), Proraso Red costs £3.50 for 150g (2.33p per gram), and Mitchell's Wool Fat costs £6.95 for 125g (5.56p per gram).
My average use per shave for the MdC was 0.66g (= 12.7p cost), for the Proraso Red was 1.00g (= 2.3p cost), and for the Mitchell's Wool Fat was 0.33g (= 5.1p cost).
So compared to my benchmark soap (Proraso Red) the cost of MdC Citrus is ~5½ times more expensive per shave, and the cost of Mitchell's Wool Fat is ~2⅓ times more expensive per shave.
AND TALKING ABOUT SOAPS, WELL, LATHER ACTUALLY:
As half of the shaving world appears to be watching/contributing-to Grant's @ShavingByTheNumbers new thread "Time/Agitation Is Also an Ingredient When Building Lather" I thought I'd mention my own (current) lathering system (which appears to be pretty close to what Grant is doing, I think).
This results in a very nice slick'n'thin lather and a nice "non messy" brush which never drips water. I do two multiple stroke type passes: 1. XTG/Freestyle, 2. ATG/Freestyle, and finish off (post-shave) with a Santa Claus lather (squeezed out from my little lather hogging brush).
- Dunk brush in warm water (for about one second), squeeze, then vigorously shake out (so that it's just damp and no more).
- Pick up as much water (from the sink) as I can with my fingertips and splash it on to the soap.
- Load the brush till it's hairs clump together and the puck is nearly dry again (about 30 seconds max).
- Quickly spread-on-to/work-in-to face.
- Dip brush tips into the sink water (and give the brush a vigorous shake in case I've overdone the water).
- Face lather (about 30 seconds max), then start shaving.
- If required I load more soap/water as I go, but it usually isn't required.
I don't like mess and I don't get it.
Hey, Cal. You know that MWF and I didn't get along, but that was back when I was taking A LOT OF TIME building lather with it and increasing the lather volume. MWF didn't work for me and, despite all of the advice and help from others, and desipte all of my extra experiments and lather pictures with lathering times and masses, I couldn't figure out what was going on, why others---now including you---really dug "The Fat" and why people like me hated it. When I had my epiphany about lather-building time weeks ago, MWF was one of the first things that came to mind. I will be reevaluating MWF with short lather-building times. You're doing a quick lather and it's working really well for you. Maybe it will work for me, too. Thanks for the shout-out here, and congratulations with "The Fat".
@Chan Eil Whiskers (Jim): I'm definitely going to evaluate Wholly Kaw sometime. It's at or near the top of my list of soaps that I haven't tried but need to try.
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
Good to hear Mitchell's is working out so well for you, Cal. I much prefer the simple soapy scent, as it doesn't clash with anything I choose to add after, be it deo or edt.
We're using the soap quite differently. I tend to get my brush wetter to start with, and load for less time. I'm getting about 450-500 shaves off a puck, so cost here is under 2p a shave. If that technique works better for you though, then go for it
We're using the soap quite differently. I tend to get my brush wetter to start with, and load for less time. I'm getting about 450-500 shaves off a puck, so cost here is under 2p a shave. If that technique works better for you though, then go for it
- Thread starter
- #60
SOTD
Brush: Shavemac D01 2-Band
Soap: Mitchell's Wool Fat
Razor: Fatip Octor
Blade: Silver Star (1)
Post-shave: More lather @rudyt style
ASL: Proraso Red
I received my long awaited custom octagonal tortoise resin razor handle today from Shavemac. Out came my trusty caliper to check all was in order (to my drawing and specifications). Perfect. All dimensions are within 0.1mm which I thought was pretty magical for a hand made unit. Its length is 75mm (the same as the Piccolo handle) so it's a sporty little thing. I fitted my new Piccolo head to it. What a lovely fit with the weird Fatip M4.5 x 0.75mm threads.
My BiC blade was doing just fine but I decided to scrap it and Christen my new Fatip Octor with a brand new Silver Star.
The shave was great and I suspect that my new Fatip Octor is going to be another big love job. Obviously I'll be sticking with it for a while. Brush, soap, and ASL remain the same as before and I'm enjoying them all.
Thanks for your input Grant @ShavingByTheNumbers and Al @AimlessWanderer, appreciated.
Brush: Shavemac D01 2-Band
Soap: Mitchell's Wool Fat
Razor: Fatip Octor
Blade: Silver Star (1)
Post-shave: More lather @rudyt style
ASL: Proraso Red
I received my long awaited custom octagonal tortoise resin razor handle today from Shavemac. Out came my trusty caliper to check all was in order (to my drawing and specifications). Perfect. All dimensions are within 0.1mm which I thought was pretty magical for a hand made unit. Its length is 75mm (the same as the Piccolo handle) so it's a sporty little thing. I fitted my new Piccolo head to it. What a lovely fit with the weird Fatip M4.5 x 0.75mm threads.
My BiC blade was doing just fine but I decided to scrap it and Christen my new Fatip Octor with a brand new Silver Star.
The shave was great and I suspect that my new Fatip Octor is going to be another big love job. Obviously I'll be sticking with it for a while. Brush, soap, and ASL remain the same as before and I'm enjoying them all.
Thanks for your input Grant @ShavingByTheNumbers and Al @AimlessWanderer, appreciated.
