Cal's "I don't do journals" Journal
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- #562
I'll be tuning in Mike.- Thread starter
- #563
I was just doing an initial skim through The Barbers' Manual by A. B. Moler (©1911 revised January 1, 1928). The main part of the book has a "Things to Remember" sidebar running through it. I had to post the one I've just come to in the chapter on "Shaving":
"Cutting strokes like cutting remarks, penetrate if not handled skillfully."
"Cutting strokes like cutting remarks, penetrate if not handled skillfully."
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- #564
The woes of "non shave ready" SRs. Part 2
So I cleaned and dried my HT and parked it up. I completed the shave with the DX resulting in a DFS.
My 12K whetstone arrived today so I intend becoming a honemeister over the next few days.
That's plan A.
If the outcome isn't as planned, the bold Douglas @Somerled will be contacted.
Well (in fact not well at all), this evening's shave told me for sure that my Hoshi Tombo is NOT shave ready. I started by DXing a small area then HTing a small area just beside it. The DX cut the whiskers easily but the HT only "caught" them, taking a little off some of them and sliding off the rest. I did this in several areas with exactly the same results. I had hoped that my stropping might have helped a little (it certainly made the blade edge look shinier still), but the outcome was no different than my first attempt.
So I cleaned and dried my HT and parked it up. I completed the shave with the DX resulting in a DFS.
My 12K whetstone arrived today so I intend becoming a honemeister over the next few days.
That's plan A.
If the outcome isn't as planned, the bold Douglas @Somerled will be contacted.
Do you have any paste?The woes of "non shave ready" SRs. Part 2
Well (in fact not well at all), this evening's shave told me for sure that my Hoshi Tombo is NOT shave ready. I started by DXing a small area then HTing a small area just beside it. The DX cut the whiskers easily but the HT only "caught" them, taking a little off some of them and sliding off the rest. I did this in several areas with exactly the same results. I had hoped that my stropping might have helped a little (it certainly made the blade edge look shinier still), but the outcome was no different than my first attempt.
So I cleaned and dried my HT and parked it up. I completed the shave with the DX resulting in a DFS.
View attachment 934199
My 12K whetstone arrived today so I intend becoming a honemeister over the next few days. [emoji23]
That's plan A.
If a razor is not shave ready from a vendor, in my experience it is generally one of two things:
1) they have stopped around the 8k/12k mark. If this is the case you may still need paste to get it to the sharpness you are used to with the DX.
To do this you can:
a) You can go down The Method route: diamond pastes from eBay and you can get balsa packs from Cass Arts. Cheapest support is pieces of glass from a local glaziers.
b) If you want to save on the hassle, I have just used leather paddle strops for years. They don't have to be anything special. 3 pastes: a Chromium Oxide paste specified as 0.5 micron from eBay, and the little red box of two crayons from Amazon - often branded as Dovo.
After a few X strokes on the 12k, follow up with the same on CrOx, FerOx (red) and then black, then plain leather. Wipe the razor well after each paste.
2) they have messed up everything. In which case you'll need to set the bevel yourself or get someone else to.
How are you intending to lap the 12k stone?
The best way I have found is with Silicon Carbide wet and dry on one of these: Veritas Glass Lapping Plate
I don't bother to glue it, just soak it to the glass plate with water.
Yeah, around 2.02 in the video he strums the edge with 3 fingers.
It might have been a video of his contraversial way of honing straight razors when I first saw this test.
Jim @Chan Eil Whiskers posted a few of his videos in his thread a while back.
I restored an old frameback yesterday and used this test all the way through honing and finished up with a nice shave at the end. I can tell it's not as sharp as it might be, but it's not far off.
It's like everything else, YMMV.
Exactly what I thought when I first read it
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- #569
Nope. Thank you for your post Seveneighth. Here's what I did yesterday:
My sharpening stone came lapped on both faces and looks good to me and my straight edge. I permanent markered both sides of my Hoshi Tombo then started honing on the slurried stone (using distilled water). I took pics after 50 laps and 100 laps (where I finished honing) then gave it 50 laps on my leather strop and took final pics.
Below is that sequence on the front of the blade:
Then the back of the blade:
I was testing as per the video Seveneighth posted above and it was definitely getting sharper. The acid test was earlier this evening.
I continued with my side-by-side DX and HT testing. The HT was MUCH sharper, but only about halfway there. Moving forward my plan is to re-hone my HT exactly as I did yesterday which (in theory) should bring it to the sharpness I'm looking for. I was surprised that I quite enjoyed the honing and stropping experience, but I have no intention of making it any more complex.
This evening's shave started (as above) with the DX and HT sharpness comparison. I was getting a little gung-ho with the DX and gave myself a cut on my jawline. At this point I got my RazoRock GC84 out (to shave round the cut) and completed the shave with it. I'm not into shaves with more than one razor but actually quite enjoyed this one.
Experimental SOTD
Brush: Tiny Shavemac Silvertip D01
Soap: CRS Classic Almond Cream
Razor 1: Hoshi Tombo 8000 Kamisori
Razor 2: Feather Artist Club DX
Blade 2: Schick Proline (15)
Razor 3: RazoRock GC84
Blade 3: Polsilver SI (10)
ASL: Proraso Red
My CRS Shaving Cream arrived today (thanks to @Esox Mike's enablement) so I HAD TO trial it. I've never used a cream that comes in other than a tube before, so dipping my brush gingerly into the tub I ended up with sufficient lather for myself and the rest of the shavers in the street. But I have to agree with Mike, it's THE SLICKEST, wonderful. Thanks Mike. I'm pleased that I chose the Almond, a very pleasant aroma.
I must say that I'm enjoying my little journey to getting my Hoshi Tombo SHAVE READY. The seller who said he'd made it shave ready (and hadn't) actually did me a favor.
Sounds like you had fun there Cal
Honing can be very theraputic, puts you into the Zen zone.
Try this next time.
Lap your razor very gently with only the weight of the razor on the stone.
Do that back and forth until you feel a change in the feedback - might take a few minutes.
This usually manifests as the razor being sucked into the stone. It starts to feel sticky.
Very gently mind, just make sure you keep the spine and edge flat on the stone.
Once you feel the suction both sides then stop and strop the razor.
No need to paint the edge and spine with a sharpie this time.
We'll make a honemiester out of you yet.
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- #571
I did Doug.Sounds like you had fun there Cal
We'll make a honemiester out of you yet.
Of course! 
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Interesting stone, Cal. It's a stone I've heard very little about. The vendor seems pretty clear in stating it's a 12K stone. Of course, natural stones are not really a grit per se and it's all about how they work for you.
Are you saying, Cal, that you ended up with a SR sharper than the Proline? Sounds like you are. Amazing.
Good job of it, sir.
Good luck with that.
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- #573
No Jim. On my first shave the SR was blunt (dull) compared to the Proline. On the second shave (above) after honing the SR was halfway to as-sharp-as the Proline. So with another similar (or more likely Doug's suggested) honing I expect it to be roughly on par with the Proline.
Thank you.Only just checked out what stone your using Cal.
I have one of those, Welsh Purple Slates.
Mine is 8"x3", I think is the only difference.
Only used it once, I prefer my Naniwa to it.
Naniwa gives a much finer edge, at least it seems that way to me.
I bought mine from the same vendor, AJ, he's well known on these forums.
He states that it's an "equivalent" 12k.
Anyway, if it works for you then thats all that matters.
Think I should revisit mine and give it another try.
I have one of those, Welsh Purple Slates.
Mine is 8"x3", I think is the only difference.
Only used it once, I prefer my Naniwa to it.
Naniwa gives a much finer edge, at least it seems that way to me.
I bought mine from the same vendor, AJ, he's well known on these forums.
He states that it's an "equivalent" 12k.
Anyway, if it works for you then thats all that matters.
Think I should revisit mine and give it another try.
Don't want to sound pessimistic here.
But getting your edge on par with a proline is a big ask at this stage.
Hopefully you'll get it sharper than it is, enough to make it an easy and comfortable shave.
You'll need to go the extra mile with balsa strops and diamond paste to get it closer.
At least thats what I used for mine.
Maybe with the help of CrOx on your strop it will get it closer.
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- #576
I'm an optimist Doug.
Those stones are amazing. I love mine - I have two sets - a set of three I use with water and a set of two I use with oil.
The Llyn Melynllyn that you have is the mid grit stone in the set of three that the vendor sells. He also sells a Dragon's Tongue, which is coarser and an unnamed Welsh slate which I've seen referred to as a yellow lake which is finer.
WELSH SLATE TRI SHARPENING STONE SET 3 HONES RAZOR HONE IDEAL GIFT | eBay
I have never finished on the Llyn Melynllyn always moving up to either the "yellow lake" or a Charnley Forest from the Llyn Melynllyn. If I were to finish on the Llyn Melynllyn I think I would follow with Chromium Oxide paste.
There are a number of guys using these stones and I picked up some really good advice from them which helped me with the stones.
1) I switched to honing with the stone in hand - it improved the feedback and really helped control the pressure in the later stages of the progression.
2) I watch the slurry carefully. The travel of the slurry up the blade also helps show the evenness and progress of the edge.
3) Soapy water or glycerin. One experienced honer just uses soapy water with no slurry and runs a progression of: synthetic bevel setter, Dragon's Tongue, Llyn Melynllyn, yellow lake. What I have found that works for me is slightly different. I run a full progression : thick slurry diluting with straight water gradually until I am just using water. Once I get stickiness I repeat the whole process but this time with soapy water. I will then add some more ultra light strokes on my finishing stone with water and glycerin.
The stones do come lapped and are nicely flat, however the surface of my yellow lake improved considerably after I lapped it on fine wet and dry.
In terms of matching a DX edge I went through a period of trying to do that. My own experience was that it depended as much on the steel of the razor which effects the feel and edge retention. I found that there was no point in trying to get a vintage Sheffield to that level of sharpness but that they shave just as well, if not better with a softer edge off a natural stone. The razors I maintain with a DX level of edge are stainless razors and I have used paste to do that.
I don't know if any of this is helpful.
@Seveneighth
Thats some great info on those stones, thanks.
When I got my slate from AJ, I had been thinking about getting the tri set instead.
Now that I know better, I should have done just that.
Might still do, at some point.
I've seen you, and others, talk about Charnley Forest stones.
Need to look into them.
I have a hard black Ark and a small Thuringian.
Think I've got the Ark where I want it, but, still learning on the Thuringian.
I'm a noob at all this, so any info is very helpfull.
One thing at a time though. Don't want to overload on coticules and jnats just yet
Just need to get Cal's lovely Hoshi Tombo to a shaveable state first.
Thats some great info on those stones, thanks.
When I got my slate from AJ, I had been thinking about getting the tri set instead.
Now that I know better, I should have done just that.
Might still do, at some point.
I've seen you, and others, talk about Charnley Forest stones.
Need to look into them.
I have a hard black Ark and a small Thuringian.
Think I've got the Ark where I want it, but, still learning on the Thuringian.
I'm a noob at all this, so any info is very helpfull.
One thing at a time though. Don't want to overload on coticules and jnats just yet
Just need to get Cal's lovely Hoshi Tombo to a shaveable state first.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Those stones are amazing. I love mine - I have two sets - a set of three I use with water and a set of two I use with oil.
The Llyn Melynllyn that you have is the mid grit stone in the set of three that the vendor sells. He also sells a Dragon's Tongue, which is coarser and an unnamed Welsh slate which I've seen referred to as a yellow lake which is finer.
WELSH SLATE TRI SHARPENING STONE SET 3 HONES RAZOR HONE IDEAL GIFT | eBay
I have never finished on the Llyn Melynllyn always moving up to either the "yellow lake" or a Charnley Forest from the Llyn Melynllyn. If I were to finish on the Llyn Melynllyn I think I would follow with Chromium Oxide paste.
There are a number of guys using these stones and I picked up some really good advice from them which helped me with the stones.
1) I switched to honing with the stone in hand - it improved the feedback and really helped control the pressure in the later stages of the progression.
2) I watch the slurry carefully. The travel of the slurry up the blade also helps show the evenness and progress of the edge.
3) Soapy water or glycerin. One experienced honer just uses soapy water with no slurry and runs a progression of: synthetic bevel setter, Dragon's Tongue, Llyn Melynllyn, yellow lake. What I have found that works for me is slightly different. I run a full progression : thick slurry diluting with straight water gradually until I am just using water. Once I get stickiness I repeat the whole process but this time with soapy water. I will then add some more ultra light strokes on my finishing stone with water and glycerin.
The stones do come lapped and are nicely flat, however the surface of my yellow lake improved considerably after I lapped it on fine wet and dry.
In terms of matching a DX edge I went through a period of trying to do that. My own experience was that it depended as much on the steel of the razor which effects the feel and edge retention. I found that there was no point in trying to get a vintage Sheffield to that level of sharpness but that they shave just as well, if not better with a softer edge off a natural stone. The razors I maintain with a DX level of edge are stainless razors and I have used paste to do that.
I don't know if any of this is helpful.
Terrific post and very helpful for me.
I have several questions.
First, what are the sizes of your stones?
Second, I assume from your username that you were shaving with a SR before coming to B&B. Is that right? If so, it explains much.
I'm a tad interested in the origins of some usernames. However mine was the product of very little thought, and is merely related to shaving, and my ancestry, and was translated by Mr. Google.
My main question is this. Are you saying you run the full progression - thick slurry, dilution, water, thick slurry with soapy water, dilution, soapy water - with each of the three stones?
It is very interesting to hear so much about these slates. I've seen slates mentioned but yours is the first post I've run across describing them in detail and explaining exactly how to use them, so I'd like to have your method described even more exactly if that's possible.
Oh, one more thing. What role do the stones you use with oil play? How do you use them with razors?
Thanks.
Happy shaves,
Jim
