Brands and where to buy?

[dmatcuk]

Hi Everyone,
I have been reading through a bunch of threads trying to get an idea of where to start with hones. I tried lapping film out and have had some success with it. I would like to move on from the films though to something more durable. My goal is to move on from sharpening and maintaining my own razors, to doing restorations on vintages as a hobby. I am still new to honing and with limited time(I have two very young boys who take up most of my time ), I don't think that learning with a natural would the best idea for me right now. Although I would like to at some point give them a try.

My questions are:

Is one brand better than the others? I have seen a few different brands mentions (Naniwa, Sharpton, etc). Would it be best to buy all the same brand? I saw some posts mention that grits vary from brand to brand. So for the sake of maintaining a proper progression, sticking with one brand might be best?

Where are some good places to consider purchasing from? I know I can get them from amazon, but if I can support members or smaller businesses I would much rather do that. Even if it will cost me a couple extra bucks. I found a set from Straight Razor Design that would be great rather than piecing something together. But I am open to whatever. 10 Stones may be overkill at this point, so if I could come in under that price buying fewer on their own that would be great.

Thanks!

 

[alpster]

If you have this kind of budget, I would go with something like this to do grunt work and spend the rest on a great finisher.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shpro3pcset1.html

Do some research and think about the myriad of options for a finishing stone. Thuri, J-nat, Coticule, Synthetic, Arkansas, etc.

 

[dmatcuk]

I would probably like to stick with Synthetic at this point. Just to get used to honing. From what I have been reading, it seems the natural stones take a little more time and acquired skill to use. That Naniwa set is very top of my budget. I would much rather spend less and I was thinking from what I have read I can probably get away with 4 stones rather than 10. My bigger concerns are what brand people like the most and where people recommend buying them from. Thanks for the response!

 

[lightfoot]

Shapton Pro 1k & 5k, Naniwa snow white flake 8k. Leather strop, done!

 

[dmatcuk]

Here are the options that I am looking at right now. Is going from 1k to 5k ok? It seems that most of the threads I have read, people go 1k to 4k. They are in order of top choice, down.

1.) Naniwa Super Stones 1k, 5k, 8k, 12k - $300 These are the 3/4 inch thick stones. I am thinking that the extra thickness might be worth the $75 since I should have them for a very long time. Just in case of an accidental drop or bang into something.

2.) Shapton Pro 1k, 5k, 8k, 15k - $325 For the extra $25 this is a close 2nd. I will be reading some more reviews and what not to make a final decision between Naniwa and Shapton.

3.) Naniwa Special Stones 1k, 5k, 8k, 12k - $225 These are the same as the Super Stones, but only 3/8 inch thick. It would be nice to save the money, but for something that should last years and years an extra $75 for thicker stones seems worth it.

4.) Shapton Glass 1k, 4k, 8k, 16k - $405 While I am sure these are awesome, for my purposes I do not think that I need this high end of a stone. If I was going to drop that much money, I should just go a head with the 10 stone Naniwa set and have everything that I could ever need.

 

[buca3152]

Naniwa pro 600 1 and 5k. I say this because if your doing restores you will need stones that will last and dont require frequent lapping. then for finishing you can go 10k.suehiro gokumyo , or.any.number of nats. Personally a shubodani 100 size at 6 inch x 2 inch or so is perfect.and a diamond.plate to.raise.slurry. preferably an atoma 1200.

 

[dmatcuk]

Naniwa pro 600 1 and 5k. I say this because if your doing restores you will need stones that will last and dont require frequent lapping. then for finishing you can go 10k.suehiro gokumyo , or.any.number of nats. Personally a shubodani 100 size at 6 inch x 2 inch or so is perfect.and a diamond.plate to.raise.slurry. preferably an atoma 1200.

Do I really need a stone under 1k though? From the other threads I have been reading, it would seem that I can get away with wet sand paper on a piece of glass for any serious blade issues. I'd be doing restores just for myself as a hobby, so not a high volume by any means. Would that change your answer? Everyone seems to be pushing towards Naturals for finishing. I think that I am still kind of wary of them, because of time/skill required. Having minimal honing experience a synthetic might be a better first step for me. Thanks for the reply.

 

[lightfoot]

I suggested the setup I did for a very specific reason. The Naniwa 8k snow white flake is a surprisingly good finisher. I've had better luck with it than my 12k or Shapton Pro 15k. Many prefer to go a bit further though. Folks can and do what the will but I'm not a huge advocate of synths past 10k. At that point I would go with a whatever-nat. Also keep in mind that many that do restorations still have someone else do the honing. That's always an option as well. Also you'll need to know if the blade its self is free of geometry issues before you really get going with ANY work.

 

[buca3152]

Do I really need a stone under 1k though? From the other threads I have been reading, it would seem that I can get away with wet sand paper on a piece of glass for any serious blade issues. I'd be doing restores just for myself as a hobby, so not a high volume by any means. Would that change your answer? Everyone seems to be pushing towards Naturals for finishing. I think that I am still kind of wary of them, because of time/skill required. Having minimal honing experience a synthetic might be a better first step for me. Thanks for the reply.

Imo a nani pro 600 for what its worth will save you loads of time. And its ''cleaner" grit. Leaves a very smooth finish for a 600 that is easily removed by the 1k. I think they are about 70 bucks or so. Your call of course. But imo well worth it when your dealing with geometry issues or hard steel. Not the only.option of course. Jmo.

 

[dmatcuk]

I suggested the setup I did for a very specific reason. The Naniwa 8k snow white flake is a surprisingly good finisher. I've had better luck with it than my 12k or Shapton Pro 15k. Many prefer to go a bit further though. Folks can and do what the will but I'm not a huge advocate of synths past 10k. At that point I would go with a whatever-nat. Also keep in mind that many that do restorations still have someone else do the honing. That's always an option as well. Also you'll need to know if the blade its self is free of geometry issues before you really get going with ANY work.

Thanks for the elaboration. I got a chance to take a look at that stone you mentioned and it may be another option for me. I would like to take it past the 8k though. The shave ready blades that I have received have been taken to another step, so that is what I am used to. Maybe I should just dive into the naturals.

 

[dmatcuk]

Imo a nani pro 600 for what its worth will save you loads of time. And its ''cleaner" grit. Leaves a very smooth finish for a 600 that is easily removed by the 1k. I think they are about 70 bucks or so. Your call of course. But imo well worth it when your dealing with geometry issues or hard steel. Not the only.option of course. Jmo.

Thanks for the suggestion. It seems like most threads I read people start with the 1k and go up. Granted that has been honing threads and not restoration threads. So it's good to have a different perspective on the situation. To be honest, the first 3 blades I have to restore are already good shavers. So unless I seriously mess up the blade while cleaning them up, I really just need to maybe set a bevel and refine from there.

 

[lightfoot]

Thanks for the elaboration. I got a chance to take a look at that stone you mentioned and it may be another option for me. I would like to take it past the 8k though. The shave ready blades that I have received have been taken to another step, so that is what I am used to. Maybe I should just dive into the naturals.

Please don't let the number fool you. As I stated its outperformed every synth I've owned at 8k or above! It's been pointed out that it's micron size is closer to 10k and it's a rather hard hone as well. But of course you'll have to follow your intuition when zeroing in on a finisher.

 

[dmatcuk]

Please don't let the number fool you. As I stated its outperformed every synth I've owned at 8k or above! It's been pointed out that it's micron size is closer to 10k and it's a rather hard hone as well. But of course you'll have to follow your intuition when zeroing in on a finisher.

That is why I was wondering about whether or not I should stick to one brand if buying multiple stones. I know a lot of people mentioned that the numbers are not a standard across the board. I wish I could find these in a store near me just to see what I am actually dealing with. Thanks!

 

[lightfoot]

I don't mean to run this point into the ground but a lot of people actully have brand preferences at each grit. So you may have brand A as your favorite 1k, brand B for the mid grit, and so on. It is frustrating not being able to demo hones prior to purchasing.

 

[dmatcuk]

Ah, I was wondering about that. I wish I could get anything shave related around me. My main choices are an AoS 45 minutes away or online. Thanks for your help on this.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Lightfoot got to the crux of the matter well.

Generally there are fairly broadly held opinions about brands and lines within the brands, even ranges and individual grits within the lines, and even generations of these individual stones (some companies change their stones every so often). Your best bet is to read peoples opinions on the specific stone you want to buy.

For instance... this is JUST AN EXAMPLE of what people might say; it's not meant to be accurate.

A large group of honers might feel that King and Taidea stones are generally lower quality, While Besters low grit stones are mid-range quality but their top range can't compare to other brands, while Masohiro has the opposite problem, their higher grit stones are acceptable, but their lower grit ones found lacking. Meanwhile Naniwa SS are alright in a pinch, but don't compare to Chosera's; though the 12k SS is unusually good for the line, while the 10k seems unusually weak. Etc etc etc.
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Generally, I'd recommend figuring out what stones you think you'll need and reading reviews for specific stones in the ranges those stones cover, and then making a decision from that.


As for my opinion. I'm in the minority who swear by DMT's. I bought a 600/1200 8x2.75" combo for like $60 seven years ago (replaced it about two years later because I wanted an older model with a very minor surface difference, but that's irrelevant to this discussion), and a 8000 8x3" for maybe $80 around the same time. I use them almost exclusively. They remove chips, bevel, and take me to the point where I can jump to every single finisher I use on any razor, and far faster than any other method I've ever tested. All that for under $150. I don't use them on stones, and they show no signs of ever needing replacing due to wear from my razor use. Washing gently and drying are the only maintenance they ever need, and frankly I'm often lax about even that. This lets me spend my money of a variety of finishers. I have a collection at this point of hundreds of stones I can finish with (as well as many other low grit hones, which I often use for knives but very rarely if at all for razors).

 

[Bad_B]

I have the Shapton glass stones 4,6,8 then 16k stones. I used this system for about a year. I just picked up a 1k Chosera for addressing damaged edges as I am doing more project vintage razors that need chip removal.

The Shapton system works fine. In fact I quickly learned the 6k stone wasn't really needed, the progression from 4 to 8 removes all the scratches and leaves a mirror finish. I used to finish on the 16k glass, but purchased a Jnat for a finisher and like those edges better.

All in all its a very good system when used together. You'll want a generic stone holder and something to lap and bevel the edges for time to time, I use a DMT 1400 for that.

As the stone surfaces are pure white you can see swarf buildup very easily. They are also true splash and goes like most synthetics. I use a small plastic spray bottle to mist them while honing and a lighted x60 jewelers loop to check the edge progress. What else...they are thin and lite, don't take up much storage room and the boxes they come in are sufficient to protect them while in storage.

I hope that helps.

 

[jb27]

I'm new to honing, so take that into consideration. I did a lot of reading and ended up getting the following:

DMT D8C (325 grit for lapping stones)
DMT D8E (1200 grit for initial bevel setting)
Naniwa Professional 1k (formerly Chosera)
Norton 4/8k combo
Naniwa Superstone 12k

I ordered the DMTs and Norton from ThePerfectEdge. I liked their prices on the DMTs and Norton, and based on the reading I did, most people report having to remove a considerable amount from the Norton with the initial lapping, so I thought it best to leave that to someone who knows what they are doing. TPE offers to flatten and bevel the stones you buy from them for a small fee. I ordered the Naniwas and 2 stone holders from SRD because I've had nothing but good experience with them and they get stuff to my door very fast.

I've only honed 1 razor so far but was very happy with the results. It was a vintage I picked up on the bay and took through the entire progression from DMT 1200 through 12k. My other razors were purchased new, so they haven't gotten to the point where a diamond pasted strop won't bring them back to shaving well. I am looking forward to that though...

Check out TPE's site as they also have a few package deals with Shaptons.

Good luck and enjoy.

 

[Steve56]

Chef's Knives to Go is where I've bought my synths. Mark is a good fellow.

My current synth progesssion is Shapton Pro 320 for heavy lifts, and a Chosera 600 to bridge. Both these stones are very similar in nature right down to the color. The daily drivers are a Shapton Pro 2k and 5k, followed by a Shapton Glass HC 8k (the gray one). From there it's a jnat. I can use a koma nagura and omit the 8k Shapton. I also have the Naniwa snow white, good stone, but I like the HC Glass 8k better at this point of my experience with them.

I lap with w/d sandpaper on glass, it leaves a better finish than diamond plates IMO.

Cheers, Steve

 

[dmatcuk]

Thanks for all of the tips guys. I appreciate the suggestions as to where to buy from as well.