Bourbon Distilleries / Complanies

[Edcculus]

When you look at the major players in the Bourbon world, it seems like most of the labels you see on the shelf are really controlled by a few major players.

Heaven Hill produces a large variety including Evan Williams, Elijah Craig, Henry MeCkenna, Heaven Hill, Fighting **** and about 12 others. Most of those seem to all be produced in their Bardstown KY facility.

Beam Suntory produces Jim Beam, Makers Mark, Old Grandad, Old Crow, Basil Haydens, Bookers and Knob Creek. A good handful of theirs are produced at the Clermont KY facility (Knob Creek, Jim Beam, Old Grandad).

My question for the bigger Bourbon aficionados, is what is the major differences between some of the labels produced out of the same facility? Do they all have slightly differing recipes? Age and blend others differently?

Just for comparison, a 750mL bottle of Elijah Craig 12 year is 31.49 on BevMo's website (24.99 for Club Bev, whatever that is). A 750mL of Evan Williams Black is $13.99 (11.99 for club bev). Now the EJ has the "12 year old" on its label. I know from some reading I've done that 12 year old does not necessarily mean that ALL of the whiskey in the bottle is that old. Some 12 year old is blended with newer stuff.

Now, I've never done a side by side either, so I couldn't tell you whether EJ deserves a markup over EW. Are we fooling ourselves with a lot of these labels though? Specifically for labels produced by the same parent company out of the same facility? Devi's advocate side - yes aging takes up space and a lot of time, so having some 12 year old blended in WILL drive up the price.

Chime in with your thoughts or insights!

 

[emwolf]

wow, very interesting!!! When I smoked, cigarettes were dwindling down to just Phillip Morris and they all ended up tasting like Marlboro's with different labels.

 

[langod]

It's my understanding that most distilleries work within a kind of family "mashbill" -- the mashbill being the basic ratios of wheat, corn, rye, etc in the recipe. In taste, I've noticed a "family resemblance" inside those distillery lines, too. It appears that I'm quite partial to the Buffalo Trace basic mash bill -- since I like Buffalo Trace, Blantons & George T Stagg, etc.

There seems to be a bigger variation in the Suntory/JB line since I don't particularly like JB, but I really like Makers, Bakers and Basil Hayden's....

Are some of these distilleries playing a marketing game? Sure, I'm sure that there's a few of these company's lesser bourbons dressed up in a fancier label, with maybe a slight amount of more aged bourbon in there for advertising's sake, more than flavor.


Here's an interesting graphic

 

[SteveWY]

My question for the bigger Bourbon aficionados, is what is the major differences between some of the labels produced out of the same facility? Do they all have slightly differing recipes? Age and blend others differently?

Short answer is yes to those questions. Everything is different. The mash bill (whatever that is), age varies, and mostly how they blend or don't blend barrels.

 

[captp]

The age listed on bourbon is the YOUNGEST whiskey, so 12 yo MAY have older whiskey, but nothing younger. Same holds for scotch

 

[August West]

I'm allergic to bourbon.

It makes me break out in felonies.

 

[Tim_McD]

I bookmarked this link awhile back; this gent does an admirable job at keeping up on producers

http://recenteats.blogspot.com/p/the-complete-list-of-american-whiskey.html?m=1#KY

 

[ackvil]

My brother-in-law worked many years for Wild Turkey and other distillers is the source for my bourbon info.

He said that there are only three or four bourbon recipes with the only real difference being in the percentage mixture of corn, rye,wheat, or malt.. This is what is called the mash bill: the bourbon recipe. Interestingly, he said that the mash bill is the least important factor in the taste of bourbon! He said, for example, a .5% or 1% difference in the amount of corn in the recipe will not be detected in the taste. Rather he said the following are the factors that make a real difference in the taste:

• the kind of yeast that is used. Some distillers use a dry yeast and some use a jug yeast: a recipe that has been handed down and is a well kept secret. My brother-in-law said that Wild Turkey has a yeast recipe that is closely guarded. The yeast is what starts the fermenting process and can result in distinct tastes.
• The proof is also important. There are different periods of time when the proof may vary. The proof in the still, when it leaves the still, when it is barreled, and when it is bottled all make a difference.
• How it is filtered is another factor.
• How long is it stored is another factor.
• The water that is added to the mix.
• The amount of mix (different ages of the liquor) involved.
• The barrel used.
• The location of the barrel.

My brother-in-law tells an interesting story about an initiation he experienced when he started as a taster. Nobody told him you were supposed to put the liquor sample in your mouth, run it around in your mouth, and then spit it out. He said on his first day as a taster he must have consumed six ounces of bourbon before they explained to him you spit it out and then rinse your mouth out with water. Needless to say, he couldn't tell any difference in taste after drinking so much bourbon.

 

[acesn8s]

It's my understanding that most distilleries work within a kind of family "mashbill" -- the mashbill being the basic ratios of wheat, corn, rye, etc in the recipe. In taste, I've noticed a "family resemblance" inside those distillery lines, too. It appears that I'm quite partial to the Buffalo Trace basic mash bill -- since I like Buffalo Trace, Blantons & George T Stagg, etc.

There seems to be a bigger variation in the Suntory/JB line since I don't particularly like JB, but I really like Makers, Bakers and Basil Hayden's....

Are some of these distilleries playing a marketing game? Sure, I'm sure that there's a few of these company's lesser bourbons dressed up in a fancier label, with maybe a slight amount of more aged bourbon in there for advertising's sake, more than flavor.


Here's an interesting graphic

Thanks for the graphic, Jim. It is very informative.

 

[jazzguy]

If bourbon is anything like wine then the barrels can make a huge difference. Oak from different sources will impart different character, even when made by the same cooper. Age, proof and blending can all contribute to a distinctive final product and I believe I could tell apart different labels from the same distillery in a blind tasting.

 

[BlackBard]

The age listed on bourbon is the YOUNGEST whiskey, so 12 yo MAY have older whiskey, but nothing younger. Same holds for scotch

Beat me to it.

 

[Commander Quan]

This is the article that the above image came from. http://www.gq.com/story/bourbon-whiskey-family-tree

IMO it's the most informative thing I've ever read in GQ

 

[Spang]

The answer is, it depends. Most of the major distillers have at least two mashbills; some have several. Four Roses, for example, has eight different mashbills. But most have just a couple; the differences in the various bottlings are based on age and, more importantly, the place, right down to the portion of the warehouse, where the barrels are aged. These different locations experience wide ranges in temperature variation, rates of temperature fluctuation, and humidity. This all has a profound effect on how the whiskey ages and , therefore, the flavor profile of the whiskey.

The Master Distillers know their rickhouses and the characteristics of different locations, and the nature of the whiskeys they produce. So the art they practice is selecting and blending the different barrels to produce consistent flavor profiles from batch to batch, bottle to bottle. And, as noted, if the bottle has an age statement on it (like your example of E.C. at 12 years), there can be no whiskey in that bottle that is younger than the stated age, and typically there will be at least some in the blend that is older. All this has to be taken into account in the selection and blending process. The result is that basic distillate ("white dog") from the exact same mashbill can (and does) produce whiskeys of very different character and quality.

To use your example, E.C. 12 and Evan Williams Black are the same juice; i.e. the exact same mashbill. But, they are very different blends, and while there is a certain family resemblance, they are way different whiskeys. EW has no age statement, so it may contain whiskey as young as 4 years old; it's generally assumed to be mostly around 7 years old, but there is no legal standard other than the four year minumum for "straight" bourbon. It's a huge volume product but Heaven Hill has maintained a remarkably consistent flavor profile. E.C. on the other hand is all at least 12 years old, and is blended for a much bigger, deeper flavor profile.

This above applies to regular bourbons; single barrel bottlings are, as the name implies, from a single barrel and so are a uniform age. But the same principal applies: the Master Distiller has to skillfully select the individual barrels for these bottlings so as to maintain a consistent flavor profile for the particular label.