made a pot of stovetop on my home made alcohol stove.
a quick and dirty version of this
a quick and dirty version of this
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Bought my first Moka Pot! Mornings will change!
- Thread starter Shantytownbrown
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Anyone have any experience with a Bialetti Venus? 4 or 6 cup? Just checking out the options, and that seems like a happy medium of price for a stainless. Or if on a budget, should I just stick with an aluminum to see how I like the Moka first? Seems everyone is either talking about a Moka Express, or a Brikka.
Good to know. I'll go for a cheapo aluminum and see how it goes. Thanks Eric.
I have much love for the Moka Pot and have posted before on its benefits.
Recently I was playing aound with water temperature in the resovoir before brewing. I always use cold water from the tap which will take around 5 minutes to finish my brew. I decided to try the hottest water straight from the tap which cut the brew time in half. However, it was more acidity and made me way more wired. I tried this way for a week. Went back to cold water and the rest is history.
My advice for low acid, less caffiene, use cold water.
Recently I was playing aound with water temperature in the resovoir before brewing. I always use cold water from the tap which will take around 5 minutes to finish my brew. I decided to try the hottest water straight from the tap which cut the brew time in half. However, it was more acidity and made me way more wired. I tried this way for a week. Went back to cold water and the rest is history.
My advice for low acid, less caffiene, use cold water.
- Thread starter
- #46
was going to try room temp water, but now no...i have been getting my water from the in door filter of my refrigerator...??too cold?? i do a medium (plus) heat for 5 then turn down to very low simmer for about 1-2 min then its done...
Nice avatar.
I just posted this question a few days ago: I use a stainless steel moka pot from Alessi. I always use cold water. The coffee that comes out tends to be low in acidity, just the right amount of caffeine, but .... it's not warm. It's room temperature, or hand temperature at the warmest. Every experienced this? Any advice on what to do?
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- #48
that seems strange, given that i would imagine you would need a certain temp to create the right pressure to make the brew(from my college physics 25 years ago: "pv=nrt")...so the cooling must happen once the brew gets to your reservoir, right? now, i am not a metal expert, but the stainless must either not convey heat from the bottom to the top, or not retain heat well enough to keep your coffee hot once it comes out...my aluminum Bialletti gives me piping hot coffee every time...
try heating the top reservoir ahead of time with hot water, then empty and attach to the bottom and brew away, see what happens
you may want to pre-heat your drinking cup/mug/vessel as well
just my best guess, will follow to see if you get a solution, lukewarm coffee not a great morning makes
or both
Aluminum holds more heat and conducts better than steel, so the top part is plenty hot before the water comes up. With steel, the top won't get as hot even while the bottom heats faster and to higher temperatures. It's why Bialetti uses aluminum, and why I've always stayed away from the stainless ones.
Aluminum holds more heat and conducts better than steel, so the top part is plenty hot before the water comes up. With steel, the top won't get as hot even while the bottom heats faster and to higher temperatures. It's why Bialetti uses aluminum, and why I've always stayed away from the stainless ones.
I just tried heating the whole thing up before I put it on the stove, in addition to the espresso cup. Still no joy. It's really very strange. Is it possible for the coffee to percolate before it's warm enough? It just doesn't make any sense. I have the Richard Sapper "snap-on" pot, which has a very wide bottom to let the water warm faster. It percolates, but comes out hand temperature. Bizarre.
That makes sense. If you want to understand it, wrap your head around thermal diffusivity. It's basically a measure of how quickly something gets up to temperature. So it takes 21 times as much energy to get the stainless moka pot up to temperature compare to aluminum. (Not quite, because the stainless steel is thinner. These numbers are related to volume, not weight.) The problem is, the bottom has to get really, really hot before the heat starts to move through the metal to the rest of the pot. (Because of its low conductivity.) That's why steel gets hot spots. The wide bottom probably helps to heat the water faster by spreading that heat around more metal, which only prevents the rest of the pot from heating up. Basically, aluminum's going to conduct through the metal a lot easier, so the pot gets hot easier than the water inside, and you end up with a nice hot top before the water comes up. I think the reason the top won't stay hot when you preheat it is mostly because the steel's really thin--it's not so much because of anything to do with it being steel. If anything, steel should cool slower, just as it heats slower.
stainless steel = 4 (or 4)
iron = 23 (or 23)
aluminum = 84 (or 94)
copper = 255 (or 116)
OTOH, it might be the pressure: pv=nrt
stainless steel = 4 (or 4)
iron = 23 (or 23)
aluminum = 84 (or 94)
copper = 255 (or 116)
OTOH, it might be the pressure: pv=nrt
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So, if I understand Steve's explanation correctly... Aluminum transfers heat better therefore, the top half of an aluminum pot will receive more heat than the top half of a steel pot if both pots are heated over the same period of time.
Just some speculation... If the flame/heating element is too high, the bottom half of a steel pot could heat too fast, sending the coffee into the top, before the top has had a chance to absorb enough heat to stay warm?
The instructions, that came along with my pots, recommend a medium heat. A medium cooker temperature may allow the top half to receive more heat before the coffee gets perked up to the top?
Biyiksiz, do you heat your moka pot on the highest heat setting? If so, perhaps a medium heat may work better?
Just some speculation... If the flame/heating element is too high, the bottom half of a steel pot could heat too fast, sending the coffee into the top, before the top has had a chance to absorb enough heat to stay warm?
The instructions, that came along with my pots, recommend a medium heat. A medium cooker temperature may allow the top half to receive more heat before the coffee gets perked up to the top?
Biyiksiz, do you heat your moka pot on the highest heat setting? If so, perhaps a medium heat may work better?
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Thanks for your feedback, guys. I always set it on medium heat, my thinking being exactly what AjaxLapinski says. And now I've also begun heating the top part up with hot water before I assemble the pot. I even let hot water flow through the top part of the pot to make sure it is warm on the inside too. So the pot doesn't get piping hot by the time the coffee flows through, but it is definitely not cold or even room temperature. Nevertheless, the coffee is lukewarm. I do believe it has something to do with the material and/or design of the pot. Never had this problem with an aluminum bialetti. I'm going to try pouring actual boiling water into the top part before I assemble it next, and see if that helps.
You may be right about it being a design issue. Which model Alessi do you have?
My steel, 10 cup (approx 3ea 12oz servings) Cusinox Milano takes a few minutes longer to brew than my old aluminum pot but, it does keep the coffee hot in the top half. The bottom half is very heavy so, the heat in the bottom keeps the coffee in the top warm while I'm having my first two cups.
My steel, 10 cup (approx 3ea 12oz servings) Cusinox Milano takes a few minutes longer to brew than my old aluminum pot but, it does keep the coffee hot in the top half. The bottom half is very heavy so, the heat in the bottom keeps the coffee in the top warm while I'm having my first two cups.
It's the 3-cup 9090 Richard Sapper model, here: http://www.alessi.com/en/3/517/coffee-machines/espresso-coffee-maker
I just tried something new: I heated the top part up with boiling water, assembled the coffee maker with cold water in the bottom half, and set it on a very low setting. It helped a little - the coffee was warmer than usual, but not as warm as it should be. Next time I'll do the same, but on an even lower setting, the lowest, and see if that helps.
I just tried something new: I heated the top part up with boiling water, assembled the coffee maker with cold water in the bottom half, and set it on a very low setting. It helped a little - the coffee was warmer than usual, but not as warm as it should be. Next time I'll do the same, but on an even lower setting, the lowest, and see if that helps.
I see a reviewer on Amazon writes about the Alessi 9090: "You really don't need high heat for this. I thought that was such a weird part of the instruction book until I realized that, as the water heats, the base becomes a pressurized chamber and it's the buildup of pressure from the heat that forces the water through the coffee, and not whether the water is boiling. It really should take only 5 or 6 minutes for the coffee to be done -- you'll hear the water spluttering to let you know it's done brewing."
He/she seems to be arguing that the water does not necessarily have to be warm for it to be forced through the coffee filter. Is this correct? If it is, it would imply that I am essentially brewing with lukewarm water. Mine doesn't even take 5 minutes to heat up, even on a low setting, it takes about 3 minutes to start brewing. Maybe I should try pouring boiling water into the lower part and then assemble it!
He/she seems to be arguing that the water does not necessarily have to be warm for it to be forced through the coffee filter. Is this correct? If it is, it would imply that I am essentially brewing with lukewarm water. Mine doesn't even take 5 minutes to heat up, even on a low setting, it takes about 3 minutes to start brewing. Maybe I should try pouring boiling water into the lower part and then assemble it!
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Other people have steel ones they're happy with.
Anyway, also play around with the amount of water, and different grinds. It also matters a lot whether the grounds are fresh, moist, oily, or old and dried out. Maybe you don't have enough back pressure (or too much air in the chamber that expands too much) so the water comes up through the grounds too easily.
Anyway, also play around with the amount of water, and different grinds. It also matters a lot whether the grounds are fresh, moist, oily, or old and dried out. Maybe you don't have enough back pressure (or too much air in the chamber that expands too much) so the water comes up through the grounds too easily.
I think they meant that the stove doesn't have to be at the hottest setting. A low setting will take longer to heat the water and will give the top more time to warm while the water is getting hot. The water in the bottom has to be hot enough to produce steam to create pressure to force the water up to the top.
You have a really nice looking pot and I hope that a low stove setting works for you!
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- Thread starter
- #59
How much (by weight) in beans are you using...? I use 21-24grams in my 6 cupper (12oz) Bialletti, seems to be the right amount...are you filling the water chamber enough? Are you trying to make only 1 demitasse (2oz) cup in a 6 oz device? I am sure i am not telling you something you dont already know, but in case, you have to make the "full" serving...
just some thoughts to help troublshoot
just some thoughts to help troublshoot
Good point Scott, it makes sense. Less water takes less time to heat and with less water, there will be less hot coffee in the top to hold any heat that made it's way up.
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