Blood makes poor lather

[Dzaw]

And I could also wish for a sharper blade...

Finished my first SR shave this morning. None of the cuts were anything but my own stupid fault - including a trio of crisscross slices from the toe of the blade where I have his hollow under my jaw that tug, pull, press, or stretch how I may, I can't make this spot flat enough to do anything with.

However, my real question is about sharpness and angle - in many places it was very plain that the blade was having trouble cutting - I could feel tugging like with a DE blade that was past its useful life. Is this strictly technique, or should I be thinking honing thoughts? I try to keep the spine of the blade between 1/2 spine width to 1 spine width from the skin because I read that having it further gets into scraping rather than shaving territory...

The razor came from a member here who honed it before he sent it my way, so I have every reason to believe it is quite sharp. I can treetop -some- hairs at 1/8" from my forearm, though it pushes more out of the way than it treetops.

I do have quite tough facial hair. I used to shave in the shower, and I used to let it go for three or four days at a time - on more than one occasion, I've had family members come out of the shower thinking they had splinters in their feet, only to find out one of my whiskers had pierced the bottom of their foot.

 

[Dzaw]

Follow up question for mods / members;

Is it cool to use this thread as an ongoing shave journal, (daily) or will the daily bumping of the same thread get too old too quick / in the way of others who also need help?

 

[Fortran]

My first dozen of SR shaves was quite horrible. So was my first dozen of DE shaves.
It's mostly just technique. I'm sure your razor is good. If not I'm sure you'll get an offer from someone else.
Just stick with it and you'll learn.

 

[Dzaw]

Oh, I’ve no doubt it’s all me... just a wee frustrated. I’ve climbed steeper learning curves, but I always like to complain along the way.

I would really like to know, though, why in some spot the razor would just stop. Like it had hit something harder than the previous whisker it had just cut. This was especially annoying trying to start the ATG pass on my upper lip, I had to settle for a steeply XTG pass there, because every time I tried to start an ATG stroke anywhere on my moustache area, the blade would stop and I could tell trying to make it cut would have resulted in cutting skin more than hair.

 

[Fortran]

I've been SR shaving for almost two years.
I still can't shave my upper lip ATG.

What razor are you using?

 

[Slash McCoy]

If it treetops some hairs at 1/8" then it should be sorta good enough for a shave. A sharper edge could be a very welcome thing or it could be an unwelcome thing, just starting out. You might just give yourself more cuts LOL! Work on your stretching, and your prep. One spine thickness is a good standard shave angle. A half spine thickness is a bit too flat for anything but a seriously crazy sharp edge.

With tough whiskers you really need to hydrate them fully so they will be at their softest. Also try soaps and creams that have a very high PH, which will soften the keratin coating on the hair. Godrej Rich Lather (in the red tube) is excellent for softening tough whiskers. I think it has a bit of Sodium Hydroxide in it, actually. Great cream, nice and slick. Make your lather and let it stand for a few minutes, then refresh the lather and shave. Dynomite. Outtasight.

I say give that razor a few more chances. and remember the definition of insanity... "performing the same actions in exactly the same manner repeatedly, and each time expecting a different result". Watch out for that toe. Skin that is in a bad spot for shaving can be pulled a bit to put it in a more favorable position relative to your facial bones. STRETCH IT! If doing it one way cuts you, don't do it that way. You will get it. Good technique will get a shave out of a razor that is not all that fantastically sharp. Get a few more shaves in, then maybe send it to someone for some quality honing. Or you might decide that it was actually plenty sharp in the first place. Happens that way a lot.

Once you have mastered shaving, you can take the razor's edge to the next dimension with The Method. Won't cost much, not hard to learn, and gives crazy science fiction sharp edges. But learn to shave first, preferably with more than one razor honed by more than one honer, if practical.

Most any member of this board who says he can hone, can hone. We do care about our reputations on the board, after all. But then again, everyone has an off day now and then, too. So it is always possible that you have a substandard edge. Give it a few more tries, though. If I were betting on it, my money would be on you eventually getting a more or less successful shave out of the edge you got.

Another thing you could try is to go to Sallys and pick up a "Magic Razor" brand shavette and a pack of Personna blades. I can absolutely guarantee that a blue pack Personna blade in this shavette will not fail to shave you due to being too dull. I actually use this for travel and work, but with Feather blades. Just remember, only a few honers will hone a straight to the level of a good DE blade, so don't expect the average edge to match a good DE. If you want to consistently match or beat a DE for sheer cutting power, you gotta learn to do it yourself.

 

[seattleshaver]

If the blade is sharp then the issue is likely your angle. It needs to be shallower than you might expect. It also just takes time to gain the necessary experience. Just concentrate on the cheeks. If you get that down, then a least you know it's just your technique that needs to improve.

Regarding ATG on the lip, I'll never do that with a straight.

The thread title should be "Blood makes red lather".

With straight razor shaving the problem, IMO, is never anything subtle. It's not hydration, not soaking your brush enough, face prep. It's either a dull blade or not having the blade at the proper angle (or both). It's not your soap.

 

[stitch]

I've been SR shaving for almost two years.
I still can't shave my upper lip ATG.

What razor are you using?

Uh, this. I've been traditional wet shaving for 10 years and I never go atg on upper lip. In fact it used to be common advice not to. Just 3 wtg usually.

 

[Dzaw]

Thank you all for the advice - I'm going to take it.

that being said, this is very much like starting with a DE razor - not that I've mastered that by any stretch, but some of the stumbles feel familiar, but maybe just a bit amped up from last time.

I've been playing around with my face skin most of the day (is that weird?) and I think I might have a way to flatten out that hollow I cut three times - by pinching a bunch of skin around it, and forcing it to bulge up.

It's strange, because my first pass went so well, I was like "What's the big deal - this is easier than a safety razor". A little light tugging on some hairs, but not really that big of a deal. Then my crossgrain pass was a bit iffy - roughly equivalent to where I am currently with a third pass with a safety razor. Maybe a bit more tugging, but controllable. I could have called it quits there, with a passably close, fairly comfortable two pass shave, but no... Not me... I had to get all ambitious.

It's that third pass giving me a real headache - just like with the safety razor but worse.

Overall, I should feel fortunate I suppose - I've learned enough with a DE that I can feel it when the razor is about to bite, and more than half the time I have the presence of mind to back off and start again.

I will be trying a slightly steeper angle - 1 to 1.5 spine widths from my face tomorrow, to see if that goes any smoother.

Prep - I set my brush to soak in hot water (bottom 3/4 or so of bristles, but not up to the handle) while I took a hot shower. I also lightly bloom my soap (it's Arko August, but my Arko is in a cup) I wash my face with ivory soap while in the shower. After shower, a couple light shakes to get the biggest drips out of the brush, then I brush the warm water onto my face, load up on the bloomed soap, and face lather on the wet / thin side. The lather was thick enough to stay on my face without running off, but would drip off the blade without rinsing if I held the razor up for it to do so - running water would instantly rinse the blade clean.

 

[Dzaw]

So - no ATG on the upper lip. Glad to know that now and won't be repeating that mistake.

I am betting at this point it is an angle problem. I've read so many threads where people have too steep of an angle, and are told to go shallower that I might have overcompensated, and could have the blade too parallel to the skin.

Also - I know the problem isn't the soap - the thread title is a reference to the old Charlton Heston ten commandments movie - the line was "Blood makes poor mortar".

 

[Slash McCoy]

So - no ATG on the upper lip. Glad to know that now and won't be repeating that mistake.

I am betting at this point it is an angle problem. I've read so many threads where people have too steep of an angle, and are told to go shallower that I might have overcompensated, and could have the blade too parallel to the skin.

Also - I know the problem isn't the soap - the thread title is a reference to the old Charlton Heston ten commandments movie - the line was "Blood makes poor mortar".

"WE don't stop the stone for an old grease woman!"

 

[Dzaw]

Second shave in the bag.

I decided to not make a third pass. I ended up making a half ish of a pass after the second to touch up a bunch of rough spots.

I was definitely riding the spine too close to my face yesterday - steeper today did seem to help a lot. A couple of nicks and weepers, but nothing as bad as yesterday, with one notable exception... On my left cheek, there is a scratch from yesterdays shave - just a tiny hair thin line that looks almost like a kitten scratch. Today, the blade encountered that scratch hidden by a bunch of lather, at exactly parallel, and bit deeper, turning that tiny scratch into an actual cut that the alum didn't close, and I needed my styptic pencil for. I even remember telling myself to be careful of that scratch as I lathered up... I was just so caught up in angle control and short, no pressure strokes that I forgot it was there.

Going to take tomorrow off to let the skin have a break and heal up, then back at it. I was really able to see glimpses of some really nice shaves to come - I just need a lot of practice. The one real downside to this hobby, I can only really viably practice once a day.

 

[BDWoody]

This all feels so familiar. I had a couple of areas by my chin with thin parallel cuts where I just couldn't get that turn right...

I was also amazed at how often my earlobe jumped into the blade completely unprovoked!

Keep at it, it just gets better...

Second shave in the bag.

I decided to not make a third pass. I ended up making a half ish of a pass after the second to touch up a bunch of rough spots.

I was definitely riding the spine too close to my face yesterday - steeper today did seem to help a lot. A couple of nicks and weepers, but nothing as bad as yesterday, with one notable exception... On my left cheek, there is a scratch from yesterdays shave - just a tiny hair thin line that looks almost like a kitten scratch. Today, the blade encountered that scratch hidden by a bunch of lather, at exactly parallel, and bit deeper, turning that tiny scratch into an actual cut that the alum didn't close, and I needed my styptic pencil for. I even remember telling myself to be careful of that scratch as I lathered up... I was just so caught up in angle control and short, no pressure strokes that I forgot it was there.

Going to take tomorrow off to let the skin have a break and heal up, then back at it. I was really able to see glimpses of some really nice shaves to come - I just need a lot of practice. The one real downside to this hobby, I can only really viably practice once a day.

 

[Luecke2326]

This all feels so familiar. I had a couple of areas by my chin with thin parallel cuts where I just couldn't get that turn right...

I was also amazed at how often my earlobe jumped into the blade completely unprovoked!

Keep at it, it just gets better...

+2 on the earlobe jumping out of nowhere.....


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[Clay S]

+2 on the earlobe jumping out of nowhere.....


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That, and tree's jumping out of nowhere while driving

 

[Luecke2326]

That, and tree's jumping out of nowhere while driving

Right?


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[Dzaw]

Apparently no shave today - I don't have a spare half hour for shaving this morning, and for some reason rushing seems like a bad idea. So it's 2 days of break, and a battle with the beard tomorrow...

 

[Luecke2326]

Good choice, no need to rush this!
Personally, my holy grail shaves have all been shaved with two or three days of growth. Though, that’s the thing about shaving, its individual to everyone. My beard thickness and coarseness is different from yours, which makes my preferences different. This is likely one of the most YMMV hobbies there is. Hope to hear about your next shave soon!
Matt


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[Animag771]

Let's be honest here... You were just giving me a chance to catch up lol. In all seriousness though, rushing is probably a bad idea. You made the right call.

 

[Dzaw]

Let's be honest here... You were just giving me a chance to catch up lol. In all seriousness though, rushing is probably a bad idea. You made the right call.

I hope you don't mind if I ape your organization / layout - it seems quite efficient.

Shave #3
Date: 8/23/2018
Prep: Hot Shower
Soap: Arko
Brush: Omega Boar
Razor: Dodge Judicato 5/8 Full Hollow
Post: Alum followed by Thayers alcohol free
A/S: Nivea sensitive

A much more reasonable shave today than my last couple of attempts. I used today to start teaching my left hand to get involved, so for my left cheek, and a bit near my mouth and the fine outside area of my neck on the left, I used my left hand. I was surprised by how smoothly that went, it felt awkward, but maybe because it was so awkward, I was able to shave very gently, and the areas my left hand shaved are some of the best spots from this shave.

I cut myself a lot less this time, just two tiny nicks, one of which I knew exactly what went wrong the moment it hit. The other I am still puzzling through. It seems some areas of my face really prefer if the blade is already moving forward a bit when it contacts my skin, if not then the blade seems to want to bite. Other spots that is a recipe for disaster. Telling them apart from one another seems to be a part of this learning curve?

Still, aside from two small (tiny, really) nicks, the alum was kinder today than I expected. Two and a half passes and I have a pretty decent approximation of a CCS over 80%+ of the areas I like to shave with one neat bonus: The "trouble area" on the right hand bottom end of my neck is smoother and closer shaven than I've ever gotten it with cartridges or safety razor, with no razor burn at all. If I can repeat that on anything resembling a regular basis, that one trouble spot being so nice is worth the whole learning curve.

This razor does seem to tug a bit more than the other one I use. With a couple day's growth, the first WTG pass I expected some tug feeling, however that stuck around for the second pass and touchups more than with the other razor seemed to, so I am beginning to be able to tell them apart. I may have inadvertently rounded the edge a little stropping? I thought I was being quite careful on the strop, but being new at this, it wouldn't surprise me if I messed up a bit. Even so, if I did, it still shaves pretty good so I couldn't have messed it up too much.