blade grinders for FP or aeropress?

[gurana]

I've got another thread posted looking for good suggestions on a bur grinder for home with the intention of also getting a french press brewer in the near future. I'm also contemplating getting either a french press or aeropress for work... we've got a coffee club here, which I've not really been participating in for the last several months for no other reason than general snobbery. I feel that if I had an FP or AP (<-- are these generally accepted acronyms?) I'd take less trips to :::sigh::: starbucks and save a little cash.

Problem: I don't envision myself purchasing another good grinder for work. The club has been making use of a bodum blade grinder, so I would have access to that (fyi, part of the reason I don't participate in the club anymore is that I don't get in early enough to make the coffee, and nobody seems to know how to use it properly for auto drip coffee... nor do they seem to use a proper amount of beans ). So, what I'm in search of then are some tips for using a blade grinder for FP. I understand that this something I'll refine myself over time, but I'm looking for a starting point.

I guess another alternative is to coordinate the purchase of a "real" grinder... which I may try. I just don't know if anybody else in my office cares enough to go in on this type of purchase. In any case, I'm still interested on tips for using a blade grinder for FP, as this would be at least a couple of months out.

 

[Cray]

Self-proclaimed coffee geek here. The general rule with blade grinders is "don't." It's literally impossible to get a consistent grind from them, and with a french press (which needs a relatively coarse grind), that means your coffee will be absolutely FULL of powdery grounds.

I would just grind up to a week's worth of coffee with the burr grinder at home, and bring it to work in a sealed container.

If you were using a drip maker, I'd say put up with the blade grinder, but with a french press I think you'll be disappointed with the results.

 

[xillion]

I second Crays statement. Blade grinders have never been consistent enough for me even for FP. Here are some lower priced burr grinders the first is a disk burr second is a cone.

http://www.amazon.com/Capresso-580-...5?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1261505391&sr=8-5

I have one of these and it is one of the better lower priced cone burr grinders. Leaves a bit of static in the grounds but a jiggle of the bin loosens them right up.

http://www.amazon.com/Capresso-560-...1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1261505391&sr=8-1

I would grind it at home and store it in a ceramic jar or storage tin at work. Coffee releases nitrogen when stored, if it cannot then it goes stale, that is why coffee bags have one way valves. Airtight canisters are not the greatest thing for storing beans or grounds. Also, I think I have seen a Mr.Coffee disk burr as low as $20 at target of wallyworld.

 

[gurana]

Self-proclaimed coffee geek here. The general rule with blade grinders is "don't." It's literally impossible to get a consistent grind from them, and with a french press (which needs a relatively coarse grind), that means your coffee will be absolutely FULL of powdery grounds.

I would just grind up to a week's worth of coffee with the burr grinder at home, and bring it to work in a sealed container.

If you were using a drip maker, I'd say put up with the blade grinder, but with a french press I think you'll be disappointed with the results.

I had considered that, but wasn't sure which would be the "lesser of two evils": less than adequately ground coffee, or pre-ground coffee.

I second Crays statement. Blade grinders have never been consistent enough for me even for FP. Here are some lower priced burr grinders the first is a disk burr second is a cone.

http://www.amazon.com/Capresso-580-...5?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1261505391&sr=8-5

I have one of these and it is one of the better lower priced cone burr grinders. Leaves a bit of static in the grounds but a jiggle of the bin loosens them right up.

http://www.amazon.com/Capresso-560-...1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1261505391&sr=8-1

I would grind it at home and store it in a ceramic jar or storage tin at work. Coffee releases nitrogen when stored, if it cannot then it goes stale, that is why coffee bags have one way valves. Airtight canisters are not the greatest thing for storing beans or grounds. Also, I think I have seen a Mr.Coffee disk burr as low as $20 at target of wallyworld.

Thanks for the tips... I'll run those by the club, such as it is. My concern is though, if not everybody in the club goes in on it, then what do I do about monitoring its use? Right now, we're on an honor system for beans. If we're low, and it's been a while since you've bought beans, go ahead and buy some. Some people that participate don't do this, and it's yet another reason I'm not all that thrilled about our informal club. If there's a new, better, grinder in the breakroom, I'm sure it will be seen as communal, even though they were asked to chip in and did not... not really fair to those that did.

Also, thanks for the info about storage... I knew that bags had the one-way valve for this reason, but figured if you kept them in an air tight container, opening them up once a day (or more!) would be enough venting to prevent the coffee from going stale... if this isn't the case, do they make storage containers that have a similar one-way valve?

 

[Commander Quan]

Maybe the best solution would be to make your coffee at home in the morning and take in in a insulated thermos like the Nissan Large Vacuum Bottle HERE. If you used the pour over cone and a gold filter you can make coffee just as good as in a press, and you won't have to deal with the other people at work.

 

[danek]

As discussed in your previous thread, beware of cheap burr grinders; they may not be much more consitent than that whirly blade of yours.

I like the idea of bringing your own coffee in; that way, no one will Bogart your good beans and you could make it the way you like. I don't know about grinding an entire week's worth, though. Maybe a two or three day supply...

 

[gurana]

Well let me run this one by you guys. I did some extra research (see, I'm not just depending on the awesome advice here ) and the opinions on this are somewhat mixed... well, kind of.

Now, what I've been looking for, in essence, are tips on how to grind with a blade when one has no alternative. Information on this is sparse, to say the least, leading me to go along with the suggestion of, "don't".

I did see at least one source that advised using a blade grinder above pre-grinding... but there weren't really any tips on how it should be utilized... and most of this advice was along the lines of... "use blade grinder above pre-grinding if you must, but consider ditching the french press and using a filter cone until you can have access to a good grinder."

 

[Commander Quan]

If you your going to use the blade grinder your going to get a lot sediment in the bottom of the cup unless you use a paper filter. Period. That's the way it works. I've gotten decent results by shaking the grinder like a cocktail shaker while it's grinding, but your still going to get an inconsistent grind.

IMO unless you are roasting those beans yourself, and then resting them for 48 hours and then grinding them each morning, you really are not going to notice a difference between coffee that has been ground today, and coffee that has been ground 4 days ago.

 

[gurana]

If you your going to use the blade grinder your going to get a lot sediment in the bottom of the cup unless you use a paper filter. Period. That's the way it works. I've gotten decent results by shaking the grinder like a cocktail shaker while it's grinding, but your still going to get an inconsistent grind.

IMO unless you are roasting those beans yourself, and then resting them for 48 hours and then grinding them each morning, you really are not going to notice a difference between coffee that has been ground today, and coffee that has been ground 4 days ago.

That's pretty much been my assessment too

I'm mostly onboard for pre-grinding... one problem though is that I don't yet even have the good one for my home yet Now... also need to find a good container to transport them in.

 

[Jasonian]

I would use the blade grinder, and do as fine of a grind as possible (on average) to minimize the difference in extraction rates between the larger particles and the fines (which are inevitable.. no matter how fantastic your grinder may be).

Just reduce the dwell time to match the average grind particle size that you end up with.

I'd also grind in spurts rather than just keeping the motor on until it's done (which is a great way to make sure that the grounds are thoroughly heated before used for brewing.. not such a great thing).

You may also consider getting a nylon filter for the french press if sediment is a problem. I usually just leave the press alone for a few minutes before pouring so they have time to settle. (just don't pour the last bit.. just like you wouldn't drink the last bit in a cup of FP that hasn't been allowed to settle before being served)

That's my $.02 and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Cray]

Also, thanks for the info about storage... I knew that bags had the one-way valve for this reason, but figured if you kept them in an air tight container, opening them up once a day (or more!) would be enough venting to prevent the coffee from going stale... if this isn't the case, do they make storage containers that have a similar one-way valve?

That was my thinking, actually. If you're using the coffee (and therefore opening the container) 1-2x a day, and storing no more than a week's worth (and that's a work week, so, 5 days), I think you'll be fine. Granted I haven't tested this.

I have, however, gotten coffee that was roasted 48 hours prior, and honestly didn't notice a significant difference in flavor over the next 1-2 weeks with it, stored in a proper coffee bag and still in bean form. Could just be me (I have a terrible sense of smell). By 30 days there's a noticeable difference, but it's still better than Folgers.

The advice to use a blade and do as fine a grind as possible is OK (though not great) for drip, but will leave you with a ton of sediment in your cup with a French Press unless you get a finer filter. So basically, what Jasonian said.

You could always try for Turkish coffee

 

[Jasonian]

That was my thinking, actually. If you're using the coffee (and therefore opening the container) 1-2x a day, and storing no more than a week's worth (and that's a work week, so, 5 days), I think you'll be fine. Granted I haven't tested this.

I have, however, gotten coffee that was roasted 48 hours prior, and honestly didn't notice a significant difference in flavor over the next 1-2 weeks with it, stored in a proper coffee bag and still in bean form. Could just be me (I have a terrible sense of smell). By 30 days there's a noticeable difference, but it's still better than Folgers.

The advice to use a blade and do as fine a grind as possible is OK (though not great) for drip, but will leave you with a ton of sediment in your cup with a French Press unless you get a finer filter. So basically, what Jasonian said.

You could always try for Turkish coffee

Well.. thanks. That's not exactly in-line with what I said.

If you grind as fine as possible with drip, the dwell time will be prolonged to the point of over-extraction. This means a bitter cup of coffee.

You will have sediment NO MATTER WHAT YOUR GRIND SETTING IS when using a french press, so you may as well minimize the extraction rate difference by grinding as fine as possible (because similar-sized particles will extract at similar rates), and just reduce the dwell time to match the average particle size.

Then let the press sit there for a couple of minutes so the sediment (there WILL be sediment.. no matter your grind setting) will settle. Then pour, and just don't pour the last ounce or three that tends to be full of sediment.

 

[Cray]

Well.. thanks. That's not exactly in-line with what I said.

Er...true. I was rambling a bit and edited a few times, and my post didn't end up exactly the way I'd envisioned it. Sorry!

I stand by the "what Jasonian said" part.

 

[danek]

...just reduce the dwell time... Then let the press sit there for a couple of minutes...

Jasonian, these two steps seem contradictory to each other. How do you reduce dwell time and let the press rest? I've 'decanted' coffee from the press into a thermal carafe to allow sediment to settle, but you're suggesting to let it settle in the press? Wouldn't that cause over-extraction?

 

[_JP_]

I've used a blade grinder with my French press in the past with decent results. As far as sediment goes, I was just careful not pour out every drop from the French press. And then also careful to leave the sediment in the bottom of the cup as a drank it.

 

[Jasonian]

Jasonian, these two steps seem contradictory to each other. How do you reduce dwell time and let the press rest? I've 'decanted' coffee from the press into a thermal carafe to allow sediment to settle, but you're suggesting to let it settle in the press? Wouldn't that cause over-extraction?

Yes.

Plunge first. Then let it settle for no more than 5 minutes.

Will it over-extract? Possibly.

Is it better to decant? Absolutely.

Do most people have an empty carafe to decant into for said purpose? Probably not.

Do the fines that have been decanted cease to continue to contribute to the still-extracting solvent just because it was decanted? Probably not.

Is this in any way better than pouring straight off? It depends. If you like mud in your cup, then no. If you like your cup to be as clean as possible, then absolutely.

 

[gurana]

FYI, I've been using the blade grinder for FP at work... kind of a necessity thing. I'm not the most exacting coffee critic, but the results have been generally better than the auto-drip everyone else has been making. I've also learned, I think, what is meant by a "clean cup" as opposed to whatever the opposite of that is.

In the future, I will be grinding my own beans at home and transporting them in until I can convince others at work that we need a better grinder for general use.

As a side note... we've got these large water filter dispensers in our break room (little larger than a bottled water dispenser) that has an option for hot water. My suspicion is that the water doesn't get all that hot. I'm going to bring in a food thermometer to verify how hot it is exactly, but should it prove to be less than the recommended 195-205 F (I think that's right), what would be a good course of action? Longer extraction time? Or just get a hot water kettle for my own use?

 

[Commander Quan]

The electric kettle is the way to go. However give the hot water at work a try even if the temp is a little off it may still made a decent cup.

 

[Jasonian]

I second the notion for an electric kettle.

 

[gurana]

The electric kettle is the way to go. However give the hot water at work a try even if the temp is a little off it may still made a decent cup.

I have actually been using it. And it works in the sense that I can successfully make coffee and I feel safe classifying it as "decent"... I was just wondering if a few extra degrees worth of temp is worth the expense (probably not the right group of folks to ask ) or if there's something I could do, such as let it dwell longer, to compensate...

Who am I kidding, though? I know I'll end up getting one for office use. Just like I'm going to get one for home. I'll end up with a FP at home and work, an aeropress at work as well as one of those clever pour over coffee brewers...