If you would pay for the shipping I would gladly do so. But what I'd like to find is some local youth group that could use them.
Black Bear and Hog with a 30-30?
- Thread starter Raissermesser
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Better off with the youth group I’d guess. Nice gesture...
I've been searching all day with no luck. Contacted the local Boys & Girls club but they "once had a shooting club but no more". Called local Boy Scouts but got answering machine that was filled and not taking messages. Contacted three dealers that also have ranges and Instruction but sadly they too had no ideas but one did say they thought they new of a kids club associated with a rifle range so left the ammo with them.
I have Marlin centerfires in numerous calibers, from the little 32-20 up to 45-70, but none in 30-30. My first was Dad's old 336 SC in 35 Remington, probably as close to 30-30 as we can get. If 30-30 is good for deer i see no reason for not using it for black bear and hogs. I don't think I would want to go after a big brownie or grizzly with it unless I absolutely had to. The 45-70 is another thing altogether, I would tackle anything on this continent with it with no reservations.
A friend of my nephews that just shot a bear, his second, with a .300 Win Mag is about to buy a .30-30 as his bear gun.
Another good one is the Savage 99 in .300 Savage. My father shot a M99 in .250 Savage with a tip off scope mount for years. It's an excellent brush gun and still being carried by my nephew that also has a Marlin Guide Gun .45/70.
A .30-30 with a 170 grain Nosler Partition will settle any black bear.
Another good one is the Savage 99 in .300 Savage. My father shot a M99 in .250 Savage with a tip off scope mount for years. It's an excellent brush gun and still being carried by my nephew that also has a Marlin Guide Gun .45/70.
A .30-30 with a 170 grain Nosler Partition will settle any black bear.
Bears are heavy boned. I'd only use a tough bullet for a bear hunt, but with any bullet its all about placement. I'd have more confidence in a Partition on a shoulder shot than I would a more fragile bullet intended for deer. On a broadside rib shot any bullet would do the job but how many times does the ideal shot present itself when hunting and are you willing to pass on a less than ideal shot? I'm confident that with the ideal shot I could kill a 300lb black bear with a .22-250 but it sure wouldnt be my first choice. I've seen a .22-250 kill a big Whitetail buck like it got hit by lightening. Deer dont have big teeth and claws though.
For me it all comes down to the hunt. I was never willing to risk a wounded animal or a hunt on a 'maybe'. The 350lb blackie I shot with my .338 Lapua at 40 yards took 100% of the energy from that bullet, no exit, to the lungs and heart at 40 yards and would have outrun any jackrabbit alive in the 75 yards he covered before he was finished. Going into 8 foot tall red willows after a wounded bear I'd want a tough bullet. Even in that .338 Lapua, a 200 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip at 3500fps isnt my idea of an 'ideal' bear load.
In the grand scheme of things, ammo and bullets are cheap. Shoot the right bullet for the job.
For me it all comes down to the hunt. I was never willing to risk a wounded animal or a hunt on a 'maybe'. The 350lb blackie I shot with my .338 Lapua at 40 yards took 100% of the energy from that bullet, no exit, to the lungs and heart at 40 yards and would have outrun any jackrabbit alive in the 75 yards he covered before he was finished. Going into 8 foot tall red willows after a wounded bear I'd want a tough bullet. Even in that .338 Lapua, a 200 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip at 3500fps isnt my idea of an 'ideal' bear load.
In the grand scheme of things, ammo and bullets are cheap. Shoot the right bullet for the job.
I hunt Black Bear in northern Minnesota near the Canadian border every Fall. In fact I'll be in my favorite tree doing just that tomorrow morning. The largest bear I took was back in 1986. A 320 pound male. I used a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 Mag with handloads. It did the job just fine.
I've also taken Black Bear with a .30-06 Springfield and .308 Win. I used handloads in both of those rifles using 180 Nosler Solid Base Ballistic tip rounds. Both rifles did a better job than the wheel gun.
This year I am using a Winchester Trapper in .44 Mag. The Trapper is basically a 94 with a 16 inch barrel. Better velocity out of my handloads than the shorter barreled revolver. I'm once again using bullets I cast myself. I've shot many whitetail with this set up and am 100% confident in the round, the rifle, and the riflemans ability to make a one shot humane kill.
The question was if the 30-30 is enough gun for Black Bear. The answer is yes, but. The But being that the correct round is being used and the shooter can hit a vital area. Another consideration is what type of hunting is taking place. In Minnesota Black Bears are hunted from tree stands over bait piles. Our neighbors in Wisconsin use dogs to tree bears. Not sure how other States do it, but I would factor the type of hunting, terrain, etc into the equation. Hunting from a tree over a bait pile I can generally take the time to get the best shot on the critter.
Several of my friends archery hunt bears with great success but that isnt my cup of tea. The bears often come into the bait pile 5 minutes before dark so of course shooting a black bear with an arrow 5 minutes before dark almost always results in my soon to be former friends calling me and asking for help following a blood trail...in the dark...after a bear thats been stuck by an arrow. That chore always makes the hair on the back of my neck stand at attention.
I've also taken Black Bear with a .30-06 Springfield and .308 Win. I used handloads in both of those rifles using 180 Nosler Solid Base Ballistic tip rounds. Both rifles did a better job than the wheel gun.
This year I am using a Winchester Trapper in .44 Mag. The Trapper is basically a 94 with a 16 inch barrel. Better velocity out of my handloads than the shorter barreled revolver. I'm once again using bullets I cast myself. I've shot many whitetail with this set up and am 100% confident in the round, the rifle, and the riflemans ability to make a one shot humane kill.
The question was if the 30-30 is enough gun for Black Bear. The answer is yes, but. The But being that the correct round is being used and the shooter can hit a vital area. Another consideration is what type of hunting is taking place. In Minnesota Black Bears are hunted from tree stands over bait piles. Our neighbors in Wisconsin use dogs to tree bears. Not sure how other States do it, but I would factor the type of hunting, terrain, etc into the equation. Hunting from a tree over a bait pile I can generally take the time to get the best shot on the critter.
Several of my friends archery hunt bears with great success but that isnt my cup of tea. The bears often come into the bait pile 5 minutes before dark so of course shooting a black bear with an arrow 5 minutes before dark almost always results in my soon to be former friends calling me and asking for help following a blood trail...in the dark...after a bear thats been stuck by an arrow. That chore always makes the hair on the back of my neck stand at attention.
That is a surreal experience. Imagine going in after an angry, jaw popping brown bear lol.
The three times I helped them track resulted in a humanely dispatched black bear that had simply stumbled through the thick undergrowth after a clean heart shot. But the brush is thick where we hunt and it only has to go 20 feet to disappear. Toss in darkness and jagged nerves and it’s a whopping good time.
I have one of the Marlin 1894 cowboy rifles, 24" barrel in 44 mag. That thing is miles ahead of 44mag out of a handgun. Esox mentioned a Marlin Guide Gun, I also have one of the early ones with the ported barrel. Two problems, it will do a job on your ears and being so lightweight on your shoulder. In very early morning or late evening the muzzle flash is almost blinding, fire going everywhere.
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This focuses the issue marvelously. Not that I'd be expecting to trail a wounded bear, but the conditions. A bear/hog encounter would be close and startling, not like hunting, with a critter intent on doing you harm. This means the firearm has to be able to put it down now. The critter would be front-on.
Am starting to wonder about rifled slugs again, like we used to carry. OTOH, I'm warming to the 45-70.
Maybe I need to back up a bit here. Yes, I would be carrying it just in case. But if I'm deer hunting, I want to have enough firearm to handle both. If I'm small game hunting, then it's back to the 12 gauge with just-in-case rifled slugs.
point
Thanks for making that point. That point is not something I have considered. My rifle may be more gun than needed for deer, but there are bears in Florida.
Thanks for making that point. That point is not something I have considered. My rifle may be more gun than needed for deer, but there are bears in Florida.
Back from the stand and enjoying a cup of coffee. Cold...windy...hard rain made it fairly miserable and nothing is moving. Will go out again this afternoon.
I use to have a Ruger No 3 single shot in 45-70. The 45-70 is an excellent round if handloading, but be aware of factory rounds. Many factory rounds are loaded light for use in antique trapdoor Springfields. Their are powerful factory loads available, just saying do your research before buying.
Regarding 12 guage slug....50 yards and under its hard ot argue with the reuslts. Now that I think about it, a gentleman up here that guides balck bear hunts carrys an old Remington pump when he has to help a client track a wounded animal. He sawed the barrel off so its about 18 inches long and put a muzzle break on the end. I forget the brand of sights he installed but its fiber optic up front and a big ghost ring in the back. He stuffs slugs in the magazine. He's been hunting bears for as long as I can remember. He wouldnt carry 12 guage slugs for such work if it didnt get the job done.
Yes, projectile velocity and energy is much greater from a rifle. The longer barrel really takes the .44 mag handgun round up a couple notches and makes for an excellent northern Minnesota brush gun.
I find the .44 mag round much more comfortable to fire from a rifle than my pistols. In Minnesota, Autumn big game hunts require warm clothing so the multiple layers absorb shoulder impact nicely abd firing a .44 mag from a carbine is much more comfortable than a rifle cartridge like a .308 or '06.
The muzzle flash when firing a .44 mag from a short barreled carbine like my 16" Trapper can be an issue when hunting that last 30 minutes before dark. I solved this by loading my own ammunition. I use Hodgson H110 powder. Its a fast burning powder and results in minimal muzzle flash from the Trapper.
I'm enjoying hunting with the Trapper. With a few weeks left in Bear season followed by 3 weeks of whitetail firearms season in November I hope to find some success this Fall.
Thats the best outcome you can hope for. The adrenaline of having all your senses turned up to 11 is exciting during that time though.
For bear protection that was always my choice. Remington 11-87, rifled choke tube, with an extended mag tube loaded with seven 3" sabots.
For hunting it will sure do the job but I'd want to keep my shots to 50 yards or less on a bear and shoot for ribs only. The last deer I shot, an average size Whitetail doe, I hit it in the middle of the neck half way between the head and shoulder at 147 steps on my second shot with a Remington 3" sabot. It deflected off the spine and didnt exit. I found all 4 petals broken off the point of the slug inside the neck. When she took that slug, she turned straight away from me, took 2 steps and fell over. I saw her exhale 3 breaths into the cold air and that was that.
At most hunting ranges I wouldnt rely on a slug against a bear. Close range is another story.
I've seen some pretty large black bears here out West, some pushing 400-500 lbs... and they move very quickly. Not to mention, the browns up in Wyoming and Montana where I regularly backpacked and climbed in very remote areas.
Most of the guys and guides I've known, carry either a 12ga with slugs or .45-70 lever. Living in a remote area of Southern Colorado is a possibility for me and I'd choose to have both and probably carry the .45-70 in heavy bear country. Be safe!
Most of the guys and guides I've known, carry either a 12ga with slugs or .45-70 lever. Living in a remote area of Southern Colorado is a possibility for me and I'd choose to have both and probably carry the .45-70 in heavy bear country. Be safe!
I've taken hogs with both a Henry and a pre-64 Winchester 1894 in 30-30. It does the work if I do my part.
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