BIC Chrome Platinum

[mbb703]

Ouch! It doesn't look like the surveys that I conducted with B&B members were garbage. The results seem reasonable. You and others can focus on sharpness, but if you want ratings for smoothness, longevity, and consistency, then surveys are the best that you're going to get.



You're right that blind testing is best. If anyone would like to attempt such a feat, then I would wish him good luck and look forward to reading about his methodology and results.



He's got some odd results that might stem from a flawed methodology. Here are just two examples:

1. A Derby Extra is almost as sharp as a Feather after both have been used once
2. After one use, a BIC becomes just about as sharp as a new Feather



What is being measured in that testing is "the maximum force required to cut the test media." Putting aside the issue of whether tension is being consistently applied to the test media before cutting and how much tension is being applied, the author states, "The logic is that the lower the force required, the sharper the blade." That's the thinking, and it's not bad, but it might not be totally true. Who's to say that those forces involved with cutting the test media in a perpendicular manner directly relate to the forces involved with cutting hair from skin at different angles? There may be screwy things going on here. It's very possible that cutting edge roughness, not sharpness, can cause premature fracture in the test media, leading to lower measured forces and the appearance of more sharpness. It's also possible that there are nonlinear effects going on here with respect to the magnitude of forces in cutting the test media versus the magnitude of forces in cutting hair. Who knows? I don't, but I know that some of those quantitative results are odd, as I mentioned above.

I actually find a Feather to be no sharper than most other blades after one shave. We know that Feathers dull fast even from forum opinions. I never take a Feather pasr two shaves anymore. For me, it is a first shave star in my slant, and a regret on shave number 3. There is an electron scanning microscope analysis of blades out there. Feather has way more carbon in its steel than any other blade. This would lend itself to a great ability to take an edge and lose it due to hardness.

I find the bic is sharp and stays sharp on 2nd shave and beyond. I also find that 7 o clock blacks evolve in increasing sharpness from 1 to 2nd shave as the data shows. Blacks are my favorite blade overall but from even before I saw his data, I was always underwhelmed by 1st shave and have been close to getting more Nacets because of this.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I apologize for the language. I don’t think your survey is garbage. I think that humans, myself included, stink at determining subjectively an objective trait. I think things like “smoothness”, “forgiveness”, “how many shaves you get” are better for a person to answer and I enjoy reading opinions about that. Having a bunch of blades all measured one way versus recollection of people who all shaves differently to tell me an objective attribute is a better way in my opinion. Shy of suspecting foul play, if you ask me what blades are relatively sharp, I’ll take the measurement data.

Now I think it was you that brought up the question of test revelance. This is an absolute important concept. What is being measured here is truly simple, however. You can have an irrelevant test for sure, but you can also have an irrelevant attribute. With this in mind, it is possible that completely objective sharpness might be irrelevant to perception of sharpness in terms of how sharp it “feels.” Perhaps the length of bevel, number of bevel surfaces, etc plays a role and isn’t measureable. The interesting point to remember we are guaging the sharpness feel with our skin, which we are purposely trying not to cut.

It's no problem. I figured that you didn't mean anything bad. You were just focused on objectivity vs. subjectivity. Thanks for acknowledging that those objective measurements might not relate so perfectly to how we perceive sharpness of razor blades. Yes, the bevels might matter. I was thinking that, too. They are measurable, but only with the right equipment.

 

[mbb703]

It's no problem. I figured that you didn't mean anything bad. You were just focused on objectivity vs. subjectivity. Thanks for acknowledging that those objective measurements might not relate so perfectly to how we perceive sharpness of razor blades. Yes, the bevels might matter. I was thinking that, too. They are measurable, but only with the right equipment.

I’ve run across bevel measurements here and there,but not extensively. I’d imagine it’d be crazy work to do it for 30-50 blades.

As for the applicability of force required to cut through a media a certain amount; it is actually what the blade manufacturers use as a Qc check,so the guy did have a basis for it.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

As for the applicability of force required to cut through a media a certain amount; it is actually what the blade manufacturers use as a Qc check,so the guy did have a basis for it.

For quick QC, sure, it's a fine test of manufacturing consistency.

 

[turkish]

I've been wanting to try them. I like the Sharp's which also don't get a lot of love.

 

[Minniegoon]

Got three shaves on one, they aren't for me guys. First shave was in my standard test razor, a gillette tech. After the first pass I thought wow this is quite a nice blade then I rinsed & looked in the mirror, weepers all over my neck, had to stop at two passes. Second shave was in my black beauty on setting 3 Same thing again loads of weepers but with added irritation this time. Third shave was in my wilkinson sword classic, same thing, weepers & irritation galore. It got binned after this one. This might have been a dud blade but for now I'll move onto my next ones. Finally got my hands on some Med preps & nos polsilvers.

 

[mbb703]

Got three shaves on one, they aren't for me guys. First shave was in my standard test razor, a gillette tech. After the first pass I thought wow this is quite a nice blade then I rinsed & looked in the mirror, weepers all over my neck, had to stop at two passes. Second shave was in my black beauty on setting 3 Same thing again loads of weepers but with added irritation this time. Third shave was in my wilkinson sword classic, same thing, weepers & irritation galore. It got binned after this one. This might have been a dud blade but for now I'll move onto my next ones. Finally got my hands on some Med preps & nos polsilvers.

I’m not totally surprised. When people complain about them it’s two things; duds and unforgiving. Maybe you got a dud or just a Bic being a Bic. Verdict for me is still out. I’d like to get through another tuck. I’m trying to decide on my “sharp” blade. Feather work for me, but only 2 shaves. At $0.23 a blade that makes me at least look elsewhere. Bic is now at $0.15 a blade but 3+ shaves. But if I end up binning 10% or 20% of blades, after a crap pass, I’m not going to be happy. The other blade in contention is Perma-Sharp.

 

[Minniegoon]

I’m not totally surprised. When people complain about them it’s two things; duds and unforgiving. Maybe you got a dud or just a Bic being a Bic. Verdict for me is still out. I’d like to get through another tuck. I’m trying to decide on my “sharp” blade. Feather work for me, but only 2 shaves. At $0.23 a blade that makes me at least look elsewhere. Bic is now at $0.15 a blade but 3+ shaves. But if I end up binning 10% or 20% of blades, after a crap pass, I’m not going to be happy. The other blade in contention is Perma-Sharp.

I like to try a new blade every week, its part of the fun but as you know not every blade suites every person. Perma-Sharp is in my top 5 along with Polsilver, Feathers, Nacets & GSB's. I do like the St Petersburg blades, others have a hard job matching their performance for me.

 

[eaglesgift]

He's got some odd results that might stem from a flawed methodology. Here are just two examples:

1. A Derby Extra is almost as sharp as a Feather after both have been used once
2. After one use, a BIC becomes just about as sharp as a new Feather

I would think his methodology is sounder than personal reviews with no scientific basis at all. Also, and I say this respectfully, I don’t think you have read the reviews thoroughly. For example, you say he rates the Derby Extra almost as sharp as the Feather after one shave but the figures are 40 and 44 - that’s a 10% difference, which is not in the realms of almost to my mind. Furthermore, the Derby Extra comes in at 51 after the second shave has been completed while the Feather remains at 40. This means that after a certain point during the second shave, possibly for much of it, the Feather is over 20% sharper than the Derby.

Given that we are talking about razor blades here, which are all pretty sharp by anyone’s definition, I think that a 20% difference is significant.

EDIT: Although, if I apply that same hypothesis to the first shave figures, I guess his data could be saying that at some point during the first shave, the Feather is only 10% sharper than the Derby Extra, which I wouldn’t agree with based on my own qualitative experience. So maybe I didn’t read the reviews thoroughly either!

 

[mbb703]

I would think his methodology is sounder than personal reviews with no scientific basis at all. Also, and I say this respectfully, I don’t think you have read the reviews thoroughly. For example, you say he rates the Derby Extra almost as sharp as the Feather after one shave but the figures are 40 and 44 - that’s a 10% difference, which is not in the realms of almost to my mind. Furthermore, the Derby Extra comes in at 51 after the second shave has been completed while the Feather remains at 40. This means that after a certain point during the second shave, possibly for much of it, the Feather is over 20% sharper than the Derby.

Given that we are talking about razor blades here, which are all pretty sharp by anyone’s definition, I think that a 20% difference is significant.

EDIT: Although, if I apply that same hypothesis to the first shave figures, I guess his data could be saying that at some point during the first shave, the Feather is only 10% sharper than the Derby Extra, which I wouldn’t agree with based on my own qualitative experience. So maybe I didn’t read the reviews thoroughly either!

One use for him is between 3 and 6 passes as he 3 passes head and face. I buy it. To me, Feathers are don’t after 4 passes.

 

[eaglesgift]

One use for him is between 3 and 6 passes as he 3 passes head and face. I buy it. To me, Feathers are don’t after 4 passes.

Ah yes, I’d forgotten about the head shaves as well.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I would think his methodology is sounder than personal reviews with no scientific basis at all. Also, and I say this respectfully, I don’t think you have read the reviews thoroughly. For example, you say he rates the Derby Extra almost as sharp as the Feather after one shave but the figures are 40 and 44 - that’s a 10% difference, which is not in the realms of almost to my mind. Furthermore, the Derby Extra comes in at 51 after the second shave has been completed while the Feather remains at 40. This means that after a certain point during the second shave, possibly for much of it, the Feather is over 20% sharper than the Derby.

Given that we are talking about razor blades here, which are all pretty sharp by anyone’s definition, I think that a 20% difference is significant.

EDIT: Although, if I apply that same hypothesis to the first shave figures, I guess his data could be saying that at some point during the first shave, the Feather is only 10% sharper than the Derby Extra, which I wouldn’t agree with based on my own qualitative experience. So maybe I didn’t read the reviews thoroughly either!

Surveys can be quite valuable, and the ones that I ran gathered ratings for sharpness, smoothness, consistency, and longevity, which goes well beyond a test for sharpness, however the results may relate to user perceptions of sharpness with respect to actually shaving with those blades.

I read those test results and understood their meaning, and I interpreted the difference of 4 g out of 40 g (10 %) as "almost as sharp" and 1 g out of 32 g (3 %) as "just about as close". It was a subjective use of language. Bear in mind that the values presented at that website are not solid. They come from testing a very small number of samples well below what would be needed for high confidence. The eight S1 (after shave 1) raw data scores for Feather range widely from 33 g to 56 g, for example. There still are those odd results with that test data, and I'm sure that some of it is because of the low sample numbers.

 

[eaglesgift]

Surveys can be quite valuable, and the ones that I ran gathered ratings for sharpness, smoothness, consistency, and longevity, which goes well beyond a test for sharpness, however the results may relate to user perceptions of sharpness with respect to actually shaving with those blades.

I read those test results and understood their meaning, and I interpreted the difference of 4 g out of 40 g (10 %) as "almost as sharp" and 1 g out of 32 g (3 %) as "just about as close". It was a subjective use of language. Bear in mind that the values presented at that website are not solid. They come from testing a very small number of samples well below what would be needed for high confidence. The eight S1 (after shave 1) raw data scores for Feather range widely from 33 g to 56 g, for example. There still are those odd results with that test data, and I'm sure that some of it is because of the low sample numbers.

I think you’ve read the test results and I read the individual reviews, which is why we’re not exactly on the same page. He does score the blades for smoothness and longevity in the reviews.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I think you’ve read the test results and I read the individual reviews, which is why we’re not exactly on the same page. He does score the blades for smoothness and longevity in the reviews.

I think that I forgot about his smoothness and longevity scores because the focus was on his objective sharpness tests.

 

[eaglesgift]

I think that I forgot about his smoothness and longevity scores because the focus was on his objective sharpness tests.

Either way, as mbb703 reminded me, he's shaving his head as well when doing the tests so the figures are not really representative of what the average shaver might experience. It would have been better if he'd just shaved his beard with the blades he tested - I'm not sure why he didn't do that. I am thinking that the majority of wet shavers don't shave their heads as well. While it's fine to say that one of his shaves might equal two of mine or most other people's, it would have been nice to see the figures after one normal shave and two normal shaves.

In summary: please ignore most of what I posted before as it was rubbish.

Back on topic (!) I have a tuck of BiC Chrome Platinum waiting for me to try so I'll find out how they perform on my face soon. The first time I tried a Feather blade I loved it but the second time, which was some time later with another fresh blade, I made a bit of a mess of my face, which really put me off them. I should revisit them as well, to see if that bad experience was just a one off.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Either way, as mbb703 reminded me, he's shaving his head as well when doing the tests so the figures are not really representative of what the average shaver might experience. It would have been better if he'd just shaved his beard with the blades he tested - I'm not sure why he didn't do that. I am thinking that the majority of wet shavers don't shave their heads as well. While it's fine to say that one of his shaves might equal two of mine or most other people's, it would have been nice to see the figures after one normal shave and two normal shaves.

In summary: please ignore most of what I posted before as it was rubbish.

Back on topic (!) I have a tuck of BiC Chrome Platinum waiting for me to try so I'll find out how they perform on my face soon. The first time I tried a Feather blade I loved it but the second time, which was some time later with another fresh blade, I made a bit of a mess of my face, which really put me off them. I should revisit them as well, to see if that bad experience was just a one off.

Good luck with the BICs! I understand what you said about the head-shaving issue. It was something that I encountered with my blade surveys. The issue was resolved by asking experienced users for relative ratings on a scale from 0 to 10. For longevity, 0 was for "shortest performing blades" and 10 was for "longest performing blades". It didn't matter whether the user shaved the face, head, legs, or some combination. All that mattered was the relative value. Then, anyone can take that relative value and apply it to himself to get an estimate of how many shaves he might get with the blade.

 

[Capisco Capisce]

Either way, as mbb703 reminded me, he's shaving his head as well when doing the tests so the figures are not really representative of what the average shaver might experience. It would have been better if he'd just shaved his beard with the blades he tested - I'm not sure why he didn't do that. I am thinking that the majority of wet shavers don't shave their heads as well. While it's fine to say that one of his shaves might equal two of mine or most other people's, it would have been nice to see the figures after one normal shave and two normal shaves.

In summary: please ignore most of what I posted before as it was rubbish.

Back on topic (!) I have a tuck of BiC Chrome Platinum waiting for me to try so I'll find out how they perform on my face soon. The first time I tried a Feather blade I loved it but the second time, which was some time later with another fresh blade, I made a bit of a mess of my face, which really put me off them. I should revisit them as well, to see if that bad experience was just a one off.

Concerning Feathers, I wonder if it's possible you focused & concentrated on technique during your first try due to Feather's reputation? Then on the next shave, you let your guard down a bit?

Feathers do demand a more exacting technique and good concentration, but in my opinion they are well worth it. I love the shaves I get with Feathers. But while I don't have to be highly focused, I do find I can't be sloppy. Feathers, at least in my hands, won't tolerate sloppiness or a lack of focus that some other blades may.

 

[eaglesgift]

Concerning Feathers, I wonder if it's possible you focused & concentrated on technique during your first try due to Feather's reputation? Then on the next shave, you let your guard down a bit?

Feathers do demand a more exacting technique and good concentration, but in my opinion they are well worth it. I love the shaves I get with Feathers. But while I don't have to be highly focused, I do find I can't be sloppy. Feathers, at least in my hands, won't tolerate sloppiness or a lack of focus that some other blades may.

Yes, I was thinking that maybe I was more focused the first time I tried a Feather but the second attempt was so bad, it just didn’t make sense. Maybe it was a bad blade...or maybe I was very sloppy. I will give them another go but I’m not highly motivated to make Feathers work for me, I must admit. They’re one of the more expensive blades available and they have a reputation for losing their edge quite quickly. Having said that, I can get 100 of them for $14 here.

 

[mbb703]

Concerning Feathers, I wonder if it's possible you focused & concentrated on technique during your first try due to Feather's reputation? Then on the next shave, you let your guard down a bit?

Feathers do demand a more exacting technique and good concentration, but in my opinion they are well worth it. I love the shaves I get with Feathers. But while I don't have to be highly focused, I do find I can't be sloppy. Feathers, at least in my hands, won't tolerate sloppiness or a lack of focus that some other blades may.

I’ve used them quite a few tries. To me, they are quite a different blade on shave 3 than shave 1. In addition to the refinedshave.com info, there is scanning electron microscope data on blades. Feathers are extremely unique metallurgically. They are in a completely different realm when it comes to carbon content of the steel used. If I remember they are at 17% when no one else gets past 14%. When it comes to alloys, that’s a huge difference. High carbon means hard. Hard means capable of easily taking an edge. Easily taking an edge equals easily losing an edge. So when people consistently say Feathers dull fast, I would say that it appears to be the design trade-off consciously made by the manufacturer.

 

[mbb703]

Concerning Feathers, I wonder if it's possible you focused & concentrated on technique during your first try due to Feather's reputation? Then on the next shave, you let your guard down a bit?

Feathers do demand a more exacting technique and good concentration, but in my opinion they are well worth it. I love the shaves I get with Feathers. But while I don't have to be highly focused, I do find I can't be sloppy. Feathers, at least in my hands, won't tolerate sloppiness or a lack of focus that some other blades may.

I don’t think Feathers demand any more care shave 1. On the contrary, they are a very easy driver. If your hone is good, sharper is always better/safer. That is why in work places with cutting tools they stress keeping tools sharp. Less effort equals less goof-ups.