Howdy! Hoping I can get some direction on a new Boker factory straight razor. I just received a 'Celebrated Wenge' and need to know if I need to set the bevel or if I should skip and move to 5k -- > 8k --> 12K Naniwa Super Stones. The edge from the factory is undoubtedly sharp but needs some love and refinement. Thanks in advance for your insights.
Bevel set from the factory?
- Thread starter chugmo
- Start date
Try the 12k and work backwards if you need to.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Set the bevel, refinement begins after the bevel planes meet in a straight, even line.
If I understood the question correctly, in the case of a new Boker razor, I believe that you will not need to adjust the bevel. Coming shave ready, I suggest you use it first and if you don't feel comfortable shaving use a 12k.
I believe that the Boker factory bevel is much more correctly than a chinese razor, and don´t need a repair.
I believe that the Boker factory bevel is much more correctly than a chinese razor, and don´t need a repair.
The factory edges from Böker is quite good. The grind is also quite thin and flexible. This mean that you don’t need to do allot of work.
There usually is a few micro chips that will not be removed with your 12k without causing a weak edge.
I would lightly joint the edge on the side of your 8k. This step is optional.
I would then bring the edge back on the 5k. Verify with a test you are comfortable with (thumb pad, tomato, etc)
Then use your 8k and 12k to finish.
You can always go below 5k afterwards if it did not work well.
In theory you need to remove the same amount of steel, but that is if you do it right.
My last three Böker razors was just honed on a midrange jnat followed by a jnat finisher. It did not take much work. Your 5k is much faster then what I used for my first step.
This is quite representative of how all my factory Böker edges came to me.
I only shaved with a factory edge once. I did not need to repeat that experience.
This is the same edge after a natural finish. Your 12k edge should look better then this.
Edge pictures don't mean much, but I can assure you this edge will shave completely differently then the factory edge.
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Do a sharpie test on the 5k and have a look under magnification.
I have been quite impressed with how the overall geometry of these new Böker razors came from the factory.
To me it seems like they have managed to grind the primary edge to a straight line. Maybe they have machines to do that, and only need to do some manual honing on stones afterwards.
All my böker razors passed the first sharpie test.
So as Legion said, start with the sharpie test on your 5k.
Congratulations with your new nice razor. Being a shoulderless razors it should be quite easy to get I honed.
To me it seems like they have managed to grind the primary edge to a straight line. Maybe they have machines to do that, and only need to do some manual honing on stones afterwards.
All my böker razors passed the first sharpie test.
So as Legion said, start with the sharpie test on your 5k.
Congratulations with your new nice razor. Being a shoulderless razors it should be quite easy to get I honed.
I am on the same line with Wid here, try 12k and work backwards if it’s necessary.
I bought (I think) 8 new Bokers and only one of them had to go to 5k. On another one I had to use 8k first then move up and all the other razors just needed finishing.
But if you really want to make sure, then I suppose you can do the sharpie test on 5k and move up afterwards.
I bought (I think) 8 new Bokers and only one of them had to go to 5k. On another one I had to use 8k first then move up and all the other razors just needed finishing.
But if you really want to make sure, then I suppose you can do the sharpie test on 5k and move up afterwards.
My advice was based on the use of Naniwa Super Stones.
These stones will probably just truncate the deeper micro chips from the factory. If you start at 12k you might actually make it more difficult then it needs to be.
If you had something like a 8k Naniwa Snow white or a different stone, you could probably avoid the 5k in the progression. The stones you have is still grate razor stones.
So the type of stones used makes a difference.
These stones will probably just truncate the deeper micro chips from the factory. If you start at 12k you might actually make it more difficult then it needs to be.
If you had something like a 8k Naniwa Snow white or a different stone, you could probably avoid the 5k in the progression. The stones you have is still grate razor stones.
So the type of stones used makes a difference.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Depends a lot on your skill/experience level. I always without fail set the bevel on a brand new razor, and run a film progression. If you are fairly new to honing then I suggest start with your finisher, with a sharpie test. First give it just a couple of careful laps and see where you are making contact and where you are not. That will tell you a lot about how much work the bevel will need. Also examine carefully under a single bright point of light, so you can walk the reflection across and along the bevel, and along the upturned edge. A good loupe such as the Belomo 10x triplet is MOST HIGHLY recommended for this. The Belomo 10x (not the 20x, different instrument altogether) has a very long focal length so you do not risk contact with the edge, unlike other hand loupes both cheap and more expensive. Same for USB microscopes. Most require getting perilously close to the edge, for focus. You might also use a very strong magnifying glass, but the Belomo makes honing much easier.
Startting with your finisher, you only remove minimal steel and risk minimal damage if your skill set is not quite there yet. I like the Naniwa SuperStone 12k, but I like 3M type 261x or 262x plain backed lapping film, 1µ grit, much better. If you do not have a great edge after 50 laps or so, or at least get good stiction which tells you that you are nearly there, then you may as well dig a little deeper into the progression and try it the. 8k stone, or 3µ film. If that still doesn't do it, either send it out, or set the bevel yourself. If you are an old hand at this, then I suggest you set the bevel anyway. You only need to do it once if you do it right and never damage the razor. A 1k SuperStone would work nicely for a bevel setter. It leaves a much more nicely formed edge than the more commonly used 600 or 1k Chosera, and the cutting power of the Chosera should not really be needed here. Always verify, of course, that it is set, before you move up into the progression, or you are wasting your time. While you COULD use the burr method, in light of the usual quality of the Boker factory edge, I would just hone, regular alternating x stroke laps, and pay attention to your feedback cues. If no joy by about 20 laps, examine visually and see where you are at. Then go a few laps at a time and re-examine as you go. You should not need to remove much steel at all, so keep your pressure pretty light, about the weight of your hand, reducing as the bevel comes in.
Startting with your finisher, you only remove minimal steel and risk minimal damage if your skill set is not quite there yet. I like the Naniwa SuperStone 12k, but I like 3M type 261x or 262x plain backed lapping film, 1µ grit, much better. If you do not have a great edge after 50 laps or so, or at least get good stiction which tells you that you are nearly there, then you may as well dig a little deeper into the progression and try it the. 8k stone, or 3µ film. If that still doesn't do it, either send it out, or set the bevel yourself. If you are an old hand at this, then I suggest you set the bevel anyway. You only need to do it once if you do it right and never damage the razor. A 1k SuperStone would work nicely for a bevel setter. It leaves a much more nicely formed edge than the more commonly used 600 or 1k Chosera, and the cutting power of the Chosera should not really be needed here. Always verify, of course, that it is set, before you move up into the progression, or you are wasting your time. While you COULD use the burr method, in light of the usual quality of the Boker factory edge, I would just hone, regular alternating x stroke laps, and pay attention to your feedback cues. If no joy by about 20 laps, examine visually and see where you are at. Then go a few laps at a time and re-examine as you go. You should not need to remove much steel at all, so keep your pressure pretty light, about the weight of your hand, reducing as the bevel comes in.
The craftsmanship of factory grinding and honing varies greatly. I have had some razors that were expertly ground and expertly honed. I have had some that were expertly ground, but poorly honed. I have had a few that had a wonky grind.
I have only one Boker razor. It is an extra hollow ground razor with a super thin blade. I got it years ago from Straight Razor Designs back when Lynn Abrams was honing their razors before they were sold. It was ready to go when I got it.
Dovo razors are another issue. Although they claim their razors are shave ready from the factory, I never found that to be the case, but I have a very coarse beard and am very particular about my edges. Dovo used to hone razors by hand on convex radius Coticules. I have yet to find a Coticule edge that works for me, although they are great for many shavers.
The Thiers Issard factory is known for varying levels of craftsmanship. I had to reset the bevel on both of my TI razors.
I have only one Boker razor. It is an extra hollow ground razor with a super thin blade. I got it years ago from Straight Razor Designs back when Lynn Abrams was honing their razors before they were sold. It was ready to go when I got it.
Dovo razors are another issue. Although they claim their razors are shave ready from the factory, I never found that to be the case, but I have a very coarse beard and am very particular about my edges. Dovo used to hone razors by hand on convex radius Coticules. I have yet to find a Coticule edge that works for me, although they are great for many shavers.
The Thiers Issard factory is known for varying levels of craftsmanship. I had to reset the bevel on both of my TI razors.
I would do this because then I would know the answer to your question. If you do end up resetting the bevel, this method will, however, take longer.
I am going through the same thing with a NOS Filarmonica 13 Medallon Taurino. The factory edge shaved but was not quite there. My initial thought was to just send the razor to Alfredo for a bevel reset but then I got to thinking that 1) this is the perfect chance to really get to know this razor, and 2) how else will I learn how to set the bevel on a NOS Filarmonica? How did Alfredo learn to set the bevel on a NOS Filarmonica - by doing it, right?
To date, I have only put the Medallon Taurino on a Naniwa 12k and Coticule with water. I am just taking my sweet time
.
To date, I have only put the Medallon Taurino on a Naniwa 12k and Coticule with water. I am just taking my sweet time
.
Dunno what stones you have, or what the blade's edge looks like or what it was honed on originally
"Needs love' can mean a lot of things.... so mostly this is guesswork.
A 12k touch up might fix it, as Rick noted. If not then reverse engineering works too.
Long ago an 8k, 12k, process would be the 'go-to'. Or a few passes on a charged linen strop.
Me, I usually just hone any blade from scratch so I am done with it.
But if I was to assume the bevel is ok, then a 5k, 8k, 12k, progression takes like 10 minutes or less and it pretty much removes most doubts.
I don't usually do full synth progressions though, so for me I'd prob just do a modified Nagura progression on a Jnat.
"Needs love' can mean a lot of things.... so mostly this is guesswork.
A 12k touch up might fix it, as Rick noted. If not then reverse engineering works too.
Long ago an 8k, 12k, process would be the 'go-to'. Or a few passes on a charged linen strop.
Me, I usually just hone any blade from scratch so I am done with it.
But if I was to assume the bevel is ok, then a 5k, 8k, 12k, progression takes like 10 minutes or less and it pretty much removes most doubts.
I don't usually do full synth progressions though, so for me I'd prob just do a modified Nagura progression on a Jnat.
He mentioned that he had Naniwa Super Stones 5, 8 and 12k.
My experience with these stones is that doing allot of work on either the 8k or the 12k is a not good experience. For me these stones worked best in a progression.
In the only honing video I have seen from böker they finished with a Naniwa 10k. The edge inspection I have done on my new böker also supports this. They probably only used one coarse stone, followed by a 10k.
So my best guess is that this is a 10k super stone edge.
Hmm, I never wrote about spending a lot of time on the 8k or 12k. I did write that 5k, 8k, & 12k sessions go quickly. Actual time spent wasn't mentioned. If the 5k work is on-point, then the 8k and 12k work would be minimal.
At a Las Vegas trade show I attended, while viewing blades in Boker's booth, one of the straights I handled was honed/finished on a Coticule, I was told other sharpening options were available in-house also, seems that a few sharpening progressions are available to their staff.
Yes, I see Superstones referred to, maybe those are not the only stones in the house. Maybe my mention of me rarely doing a full synth progression wasn't clear enough. It's not really important though, given what followed.
Guessing is fun, often inaccurate though. Sometimes vendors hone blades before sending them out, so what happened with the edge at the factory may be a moot point in that situation. I realize the edge is called out as factory, could be, but if bought from a vendor maybe not. I don't know for sure either way, it's not really important to be honest, but I really have no need to guess one way or another. Maybe it was honed on 2 stones, finished on a 10k. Maybe not though.
Which leads me to the point I was trying to make originally.
The point was, for those that missed it, is that there are several ways to skin this cat, and several methods of perceiving the situation. None wrong, none right. Just possibilities that may or may not suit someone's preferred method of operations. Me, I just hone my edge my way so I am done with all possible speculation. Others do things other ways. Whichever way someone goes, is what is right for them. Assessing the playing field accurately, based on facts, helps in making decisions.
That's my point.
Without an accurate evaluation of the edge's condition, or a verified honing sequence prior to delivery, there's little go on so all there is, is guessing. I can guess the edge is ok, or is one way or another, or that it only needs a brief stint on the 12k. Honestly, 12k is not a finish for me but that is another subject. Guesswork is a waste of time for me, so I just hone from bevel to finish so I know for sure whats what. Not everyone goes that route though.
In cases like this, options present themselves; users choose what the best courses of action for them are. Some people like to guess and gamble, others want a sure thing. Whatever's clever.
Op was looking for suggestions to help hone a razor, not grind an axe.
I think the razor honing help is what most people were shooting for with their responses.
At a Las Vegas trade show I attended, while viewing blades in Boker's booth, one of the straights I handled was honed/finished on a Coticule, I was told other sharpening options were available in-house also, seems that a few sharpening progressions are available to their staff.
Yes, I see Superstones referred to, maybe those are not the only stones in the house. Maybe my mention of me rarely doing a full synth progression wasn't clear enough. It's not really important though, given what followed.
Guessing is fun, often inaccurate though. Sometimes vendors hone blades before sending them out, so what happened with the edge at the factory may be a moot point in that situation. I realize the edge is called out as factory, could be, but if bought from a vendor maybe not. I don't know for sure either way, it's not really important to be honest, but I really have no need to guess one way or another. Maybe it was honed on 2 stones, finished on a 10k. Maybe not though.
Which leads me to the point I was trying to make originally.
The point was, for those that missed it, is that there are several ways to skin this cat, and several methods of perceiving the situation. None wrong, none right. Just possibilities that may or may not suit someone's preferred method of operations. Me, I just hone my edge my way so I am done with all possible speculation. Others do things other ways. Whichever way someone goes, is what is right for them. Assessing the playing field accurately, based on facts, helps in making decisions.
That's my point.
Without an accurate evaluation of the edge's condition, or a verified honing sequence prior to delivery, there's little go on so all there is, is guessing. I can guess the edge is ok, or is one way or another, or that it only needs a brief stint on the 12k. Honestly, 12k is not a finish for me but that is another subject. Guesswork is a waste of time for me, so I just hone from bevel to finish so I know for sure whats what. Not everyone goes that route though.
In cases like this, options present themselves; users choose what the best courses of action for them are. Some people like to guess and gamble, others want a sure thing. Whatever's clever.
Op was looking for suggestions to help hone a razor, not grind an axe.
I think the razor honing help is what most people were shooting for with their responses.
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