Best scope for a lightweight AR

[joel]

Well I went to a LGS with a wide selection of optics and after looking through a good number of options referenced in this thread, including a few options 2-3X the $, I went with the Leupold 6HD 1-6X with the CMR2 reticule. My example doesn’t dim very much after 15 min (but it does admittedly dim) but far less than other scopes I played with including Gen III Razor and an Elcan. The Elcan was very nice though - and for me it was a runner up - but I really wanted at least a 1-6X and the 1-4X felt too restrictive to me, and the weight of the Elcan was a big turn off. The Leupold seemed to be a really good balance of close quarters efficacy - long distance capable and fast/light handling. Build quality was also stellar, but not excessive - the Elcan felt excessively overbuilt. If I was a war fighter heading over to the sandbox, that certainly would have been my pick. I also found the optics of the Leupold to be quite noticeably better than less expensive options… but I do have very good eyesight.

One note - the gentleman helping me was former SFODD who served three tours in Afghanistan and two in Iraq, and he cautioned against a fully lit reticule. He claimed it’s too bright in very low light conditions and will be harder to get on target - and any situation it’s so dark out you’d need the lower reticule for distance calculations - you wouldn’t really be able to see what you were shooting at anyway, and should be using thermal or other specialized equipment. @OkieStubble - this is not my opinion, I’m ignorant and merely parroting what I heard. It seemed reasonably logical.

I didn’t know what to do for the mounting hardware though - and think I may have made a mistake. I went with 30mm medium matte open range cross slot Leupold rings. Not sure if they’re too short, or if I should have gone with something taller, quick release, etc. Thoughts?

 

[litework]

View attachment 1633221

Well I went to a LGS with a wide selection of optics and after looking through a good number of options referenced in this thread, including a few options 2-3X the $, I went with the Leupold 6HD 1-6X with the CMR2 reticule. My example doesn’t dim very much after 15 min (but it does admittedly dim) but far less than other scopes I played with including Gen III Razor and an Elcan. The Elcan was very nice though - and for me it was a runner up - but I really wanted at least a 1-6X and the 1-4X felt too restrictive to me, and the weight of the Elcan was a big turn off. The Leupold seemed to be a really good balance of close quarters efficacy - long distance capable and fast/light handling. Build quality was also stellar, but not excessive - the Elcan felt excessively overbuilt. If I was a war fighter heading over to the sandbox, that certainly would have been my pick. I also found the optics of the Leupold to be quite noticeably better than less expensive options… but I do have very good eyesight.

One note - the gentleman helping me was former SFODD who served three tours in Afghanistan and two in Iraq, and he cautioned against a fully lit reticule. He claimed it’s too bright in very low light conditions and will be harder to get on target - and any situation it’s so dark out you’d need the lower reticule for distance calculations - you wouldn’t really be able to see what you were shooting at anyway, and should be using thermal or other specialized equipment. @OkieStubble - this is not my opinion, I’m ignorant and merely parroting what I heard. It seemed reasonably logical.

I didn’t know what to do for the mounting hardware though - and think I may have made a mistake. I went with 30mm medium matte open range cross slot Leupold rings. Not sure if they’re too short, or if I should have gone with something taller, quick release, etc. Thoughts?

Congratulations. It's weird because I was coming on here to suggest this exact scope based on your comments earlier. I didn't like Leupold's "fire dot" because it's just too small for me. I only recently found out about the CM-R2 reticle and it looks pretty good to me. I hope it serves you well.

 

[joel]

This looks like it would match the rifle well…

 

[nortac]

Congrats on your new optic. Let us know how it performs for you once you get it mounted up!

 

[OkieStubble]

I can honestly say I have zero practical application for it.

1. This is pretty much all of us.

2. Not yet anyway.

It’s mainly to have a “really cool AR setup” and that’s really it.

Group hug.

The Leupold Patrol 6HD caught my eye due to the light weight, and the fact that it’s made in America - both characteristics match the rifle.

It really does. Loved the Patrol 6HD. I’m sure Leupold is pretty pissed at me, because I was supposed to buy it and send them a review on my thoughts, but I just couldn’t do it.

It makes no damn sense to me, that a great American scope company like Leupold who I have loyally bought at least a dozen scopes from in my lifetime. Without question, great glass quality, awesome construction and ruggedness, the lightest weights in the industry.

Bit I’m sorry, there is just no excuse in my mind, for them to be behind the times, in reticle designs and illumination when Primary Arms has been doing it for a while now at much lesser costs.

Leupold should be ashamed of themselves for making the Patrol 6HD 1. Not fully illuminated. 2. No dots for windage or moving targets. 3. Reticles are too small to identify and see in first focal. Even in highest magnification. 4. Get rid of the damn old skool fire dot Leupold and give us a tactical donut already! Geez!

I guess I could have been one of the very first in the country to have purchased one for $1600! And given them a possibly published review, but my momma told me, if I didn’t have anything nice to say, then don’t say nothing.

I'm seeing some neat options in this thread though!

I will probably upgrade my $400 PA, for one of their more expensive Japanese models with better glass. Hell, Leupold’s years ago Discontinued MK6 was better then the Patrol 6HD. I wish I would have never sold mine.

 

[OkieStubble]

$8k?!? What are you lusting after Rob? I am truly curious. Right now I’m looking at the iRay Micro. $5K at my LGS.

You’ll find out soon enough….

 

[OkieStubble]

View attachment 1633221

Well I went to a LGS with a wide selection of optics and after looking through a good number of options referenced in this thread, including a few options 2-3X the $, I went with the Leupold 6HD 1-6X with the CMR2 reticule.

Congrats Noel, it’s a great scope and a far cry better then many other models and variations that Leupold has taken forever to come out with just to disappoint many with their behind the times reticles.

Please, do not get me wrong, I am and will always be a die hard, loyal Leupold fan boy. Just as I am with Glock. But both of those companies have plenty enough of my money, which gives me the right to ***** & complain when they don’t listen to me about trying to upgrade some of their old, stale ways. I absolutely love both of them, but it’s a hard, cold, competitive world out there and by golly, they need to keep up.

My example doesn’t dim very much after 15 min (but it does admittedly dim) but far less than other scopes I played with including Gen III Razor and an Elcan.

While I said 10 minutes on the one I played with, I didn’t have an official stop watch timing it, while the sales clerk was staring me down and making sure my black *** didn’t run off with it.

The Elcan was very nice though - and for me it was a runner up - but I really wanted at least a 1-6X and the 1-4X felt too restrictive to me, and the weight of the Elcan was a big turn off.

I agree. ELCAN performance is out of this world, but it’s big, heavy and f’ugly. It’s looks and aesthetics, are one only a Borg mother could love.

But please, don’t let my personal gripes and diatribe of my long standing Love/Hate relationship with Leupold sour your new purchase. Me and the wife go at it like this also; and neither one of us is going anywhere.

One note - the gentleman helping me was former SFODD who served three tours in Afghanistan and two in Iraq, and he cautioned against a fully lit reticule. He claimed it’s too bright in very low light conditions and will be harder to get on target - and any situation it’s so dark out you’d need the lower reticule for distance calculations - you wouldn’t really be able to see what you were shooting at anyway, and should be using thermal or other specialized equipment.

And with all due respect and honor for his military service and I’m sure, knowledge and experience. I will say, he is 200% correct.

However, one must fully understand. Iraq and Afghanistan are both, third world countries. Their electrical power grids, even in their cities are nothing like ours. It is pitch *** black over there and thermal or night vision is definitely preferable.

But I will humbly suggest, even with just my lowly and meek experiences of my LE years. The excellent light gathering abilities of Leupold glass? Is probably the best in the business? And while it might not be enough in the darkest nights of the war torn regions of Iraq or Afghanistan? It will be plenty capable of gathering the ambient light from even our smallest towns that have only a post office, lawn mower and a billy goat.

I would never say he is wrong with his experiences on fully illuminated reticles and truly thank him for his service to our country and his sacrifices for the personal freedoms I enjoy.

But I can guarantee you, a fully illuminated reticle is just fine. Why? Because:

1. We just discussed, how the reticles dim after some time of being on.

2. All reticles and illuminated scopes, have adjustment knobs on the side where you can click the level and power of light up or down. My fully illuminated reticle can be clicked down so low, it can barely be seen, which is perfect for the darkest of moonless nights.

3. Many will make the mistake and think, that there isn’t a difference between red dots like EoTech and Aimpoints, whose power, glare and brightness may just wash out a target picture in black darkness, but an illuminated reticle in an LPVO? Is a completely different animal altogether. They can not only be adjusted really low, but also very dull and not bright at all in its power and glare production.

4. That non illuminated lower reticle on your very expensive scope is going to be absolutely worthless and a waste of money if you need it to make a long shot at night? My fully illuminated reticle will be turned down with it’s dial to the lowest setting necessary in order to make that shot at night with ambient low light or not.
Again, not saying he’s wrong In his experiences over in the black nights in the sandbox, but I’m not wrong with for the US urban infrastructure I have experience in. Just sayin.

@OkieStubble - this is not my opinion, I’m ignorant and merely parroting what I heard. It seemed reasonably logical.

I agree. Everything he said seems logical to me. For over there?

I didn’t know what to do for the mounting hardware though - and think I may have made a mistake. I went with 30mm medium matte open range cross slot Leupold rings. Not sure if they’re too short, or if I should have gone with something taller, quick release, etc. Thoughts?

I think for the excellent lightweight fighting carbine you have acquired, not only do you want the lightest weight accessories for it, but you also want it to be as rigid as possible. Having a separate individual, forward scope ring and a separate, individual, rear scope ring, on a, separate, individual, tactical picatinney rail mount? While it will work and be just fine, because as you said; “it’s just for looks” grins & giggles?

If you wanted my opinion I would say, you should just go ahead and go ‘Mall Ninja’ on it and get a better, lightweight, full mount that will be much stronger, more reliable if it gets knocked around or dropped in order to maintain zero under real life conditions.

Regardless if you have a better chance of spending the rest of your life just range shooting it. Just for that one in a million chance of “ what if”? Then it will have been worth it.

My suggestion would be to mount that wonderful Leupold Patrol 6HD in a Scalarworks LEAP 08 QR mount as @nortac suggested in an earlier post. It’s a $500 mount but they don’t make a better quality lightweight mount anywhere; and your very expensive Leupold Patrol 6HD deserves to rest inside that kind of quality mount.

Very important. Your mount height should be the taller 1.93 and not the standard 1.57. Trust me, even though I have never spent a day over in the sandbox.

 

[nortac]

@OkieStubble , did the Leupold that you looked at in your LGS have the CMR2 reticle or just the firedot? If they sent you the firedot to evaluate, that was just shtoopid on their part!

 

[OkieStubble]

@OkieStubble , did the Leupold that you looked at in your LGS have the CMR2 reticle or just the firedot? If they sent you the firedot to evaluate, that was just shtoopid on their part!

Considering I waited over a year and conversed with them in emails about how excited I was for the product design and the availability of the 6HD and their CMR2, they sent me the damn PIG-PLEX with fire dot instead. But I have handled several CMR2’s since then.

I have also spent enough time researching the 6 HD thru forums, videos and Leupold themselves, enough to still have formed a personal opinion on the CMR2 without owning it.

But now that @joel actually has one of his own, I don’t want to knock or play down his wonderful purchase, because of my old man gripes and critiques. It is subjectively, an awesome scope. Especially considering, our purpose of use for it in our current real lives.

But my individual and personal opinion and perspective remains.

1. In my opinion, Leupold should make their CMR2 donut and reticle look bigger in 2nd focal. While the reticle doesn’t change in size in 2nd focal, it just seems to small to me, compared with other brands reticles like the PA or your Shepherd.

However, in saying this, I have old eyeballs and Joel said he has great vision. His perspective and experience with it can be totally different then mine. But all I can give is mine?

2. The light gathering ability of Leupold’s glass is second to none. I love the quality and clarity of Leupold glass. Joel may be just fine, using the darkened lower BDC portion of the reticle in ambient light. But again, in my personal opinion and perspective for my personal wants and desires from a tactical retical?

I want the ability of a fully illuminated BDC for when my old eyeballs are shooting at night and I don’t have the luxury of NV, thermal or ambient light. Again, that’s just me, ymmv and all that stuff.

But in the big picture of things and life, it’s all just individual perspectives and doesn’t buy any of us a cup of coffee at 7-11.

Think about this, if not for PA’s fully illuminated ACSS and if they never existed? I would probably own and have Leupold’s Patrol 6HD sitting on top of my LWRC right now. Even after all of my whining and diatribe. Why?

Because after spending a year and a half of exhaustive research thru many brands of LPVO’s? And months and months of patiently waiting to top off my rifle with the lightest and brightest of modern scope technology that could be found? PA’s ACSS and Leupold’s CMR2 are the only two unicorns I found to fill that role.

While I initially chose the PA to only hold me over until I could get my hands on the Patrol 6HD, in the end, I just simply chose to stay with my ACSS that’s all.

Trust me, Leupold secretly follows me around and spies on me. They will probably end up reading this sooner or later and will eventually make me a dream scope with a fully illuminated reticle. But knowing how long it takes for them to make decisions and move on them, I just Hope I’m still alive to see them do it.

 

[KW Driver]

Group hug.

yup. that about covers it. and don't tell the womens that don't need to hear it.