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Best Finishing Stone and Reliable Source: advice for newbie

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
If you expect a natural stone to give you a SHARPER edge than the 12k Nanny, that's gonna be tough. JUST the RIGHT Jnat and nagura might do it but it is hard to beat the N12k for sharpness with a natural stone. However, if you want a more comfortable edge, there are some likely choices. If you are patient and don't mind taking a while to learn, I would suggest a nice Jnat setup. A bit less involved, less mystical mumbo jumbo zen honing kabala stuff would be a nice big coticule. The Jnat and Coti are used as slurried stones mostly. The various slates and novaculites are usually used with no slurry, just oil or sometimes water. For finer finish the honing liquid should be more viscous. For faster cutting, thinner. As a general rule.

It could be that your ideal stone is not a stone at all. It is possible to get a very kind but still very sharp edge using pasted balsa if you follow The Method. So far, nobody who has made a genuine effort to do it according to The Method has been disappointed.

You can also up your game on the Naniwa by using a buffer such as shave lather or dish soap. Hone normally to your normal finish. If you like, give it a few licks on the strop, or a few pull strokes on the stone. Now the magic comes in. Wash the stone and your hands and razor clean of all swarf and slurry. Lather the stone. Hone and gradually lighten the pressure to essentially zero over the course of a couple hundred laps so that at the end it seems like the blade is just floating above the stone on a film of lather, not even in contact anymore. Relather as needed. When you get that technique nailed, you will amaze yourself with how much more you can get from the stone. Especially if you add the pull strokes and sprinkle a couple more sets of them among the lathered laps. You can repeat all you want, as long as pressure is very light.
 
Thanks Seveneighth

Slash, "magic" is right. I would never think of these techniques, but I will give them a go. I have a few razors that need some work.

I think that I am using "sharp" and "comfortable" almost as synonyms, but they are two different concepts. I haven't entirely figured out the relationship between the two.
 
But I am really hoping that for my first stone (for razors) that I can find something at the 12K level or slightly above. ...but which type of stone do you think might do this for me?

I mentioned a couple of stones in my initial post.
 
This might help you a little bit.

Japanese naturals are not that different or difficult to use when compared to synthetics.
Alex
 
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At the end, all this one or two stone thing is in reality a rabbit hole. As grama pointed out earlier, what ever you get, you will always wonder what that other stone could have done for you... and so on.

I started thinking 2 razors and the rigth stone, a coticule, would cover all my shaving needs. I probably have 50 stones left, more razors than I know, and still wondering if that other stone...

As I try diferent edges, I know if I like them or not, and move on. I may later revisit the stone, or put it for sale. Slowly develop my skills and narrow my choice. At the moment all my sharpening is done on two stones that work for me.

So get one, try it, and no mater what you will probably get another, and so on until you find your perfect edge. It could be a coticule, a Jnat, an arkansas or any other. The road is interesting and fun... so no regrets, and the best shaves.
 
Probably JNats are my favorite, just like buca. They aren't super easy for beginners though. As far as vendors, I'd talk to Alex Gilmore. He is a good guy and knows his stuff - and has buckets of awesome stones. He can point you in the right direction.

+1
 
Alex,

Thank you for the link. The teaching and precision in your video takes honing to a level I hadn't imagined. I am trying to take it all in.

Rob
 
Paul,

I thought I was up to my ears in razors with 17, and stones -- three Naniwa and a Black Arkansas I just purchased from a member, but I'm just a piker. 50 stones, and you have downsized!

"The road is interesting and fun." Yes, indeed.

Rob
 
Gamma has a great Etsy page with good Japanese natural stones on it. He knows his stuff. He and Alex are both trust worthy in my opinion. Every one else...well I will keep my opinion to myself.

Japanese naturals are the easiest to use IMO. You basically just do X strokes until you feel you are done. Coticules are more difficult to master..my opinion though.


I also think that a good Japanese Natural is near impossible to beat for a finishing stone...that includes high end synthetic stones, pastes, Eschers ETC.
 
Seveneighth, do hijack the thread! Your questions will be better than mine.

The rabbit hole gets bigger and bigger.
 
Yes, 50 seems like a lot. Coticules, PDSO and some others are not too dificult to find arround here. I used to buy everything I could find. Many have a story, and is harder to let them go, even if i dont use them much. I hope to reduce futher...

I've always gone back to the tomonagura Web site. Is an exelent reference in some of the overseas stones. Razorlovestones is another one for the more European flavours.
 
Since you have a black arkie, read what he says about the stone. I have almost the same shaving experience with my vintage buterscotch. After the 12k, you may not "need" anything else... just to learn how to get there.
 
That is what I was thinking when I bought it, but the world of honing stones is opening up to me. Paul, like you, I don't think I will be able to stop at one. . ..
 
Be aware it is a dificult stone master. Mine requires:
-glass like surface finish on the arkansas.
-trop finish on my best super fine coticule for the razor.
-halve passes with pressure util I feel the pull. If I've been good on the coticule it can go very fast, 40 passes or so.
-with the pull you take control of the edge, you feel in contact. So I do x passes until everything is smooth and even, while dropping the pressure to nothing, but still keeping in contact with that pull. Can take a couple hundreds in a 8" stone, sometimes more.

Easier if you start with as narrow bevel as possible. A fila barbas duras was my fist succès. Wedges are not yet there...
 
Seveneighth, do hijack the thread! Your questions will be better than mine.

The rabbit hole gets bigger and bigger.
I won't hijack.

Just pose this question. Does the stone dictate the technique or the honer?

I have adapted my approach since using 2"wide vintage naturals going from bench to hand, and my x stroke has changed across all my stones.

Do certain stones fit certain honing styles? Should @Moots take that into account when choosing?
 
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