Best bevel setting stone - on a budget?

[Samon]

Yo, having a look at my old cut throat razor set up and stones which have been pretty much unused for about 4 years now I realised that my hone I used to set my bevels is much finer that I thought. In fact it's an Aloxite super fine no.200 which after doing some reading is said to be 5k+.. I assumed it was 1-2k and when finishing a razor on my Welsh dragons tongue slate I always got a comfortable and sharp edge which worked for me. The edges were however not as sharp as a 'professionally' honed razor I bought shave ready and I suspect this is due to my ignorance and less than ideal set up (rather than technique, maybe).

So, with a tight budget in mind what are the best options available to me in the UK? The shaptons and choseras in 1k are too expensive for me right now, the cheaper of the two being £60+. I was hoping to pick up a vintage stone with a relative grit suitable for bevel setting for about £20 but I'm too new to judge the estimated grits on mystery stones and keep getting outbid on the others.

Thanks for any input

 

[ables]

Id probably buy a king water stone 800, 1000 or 1200 grit. They all will set a bevel fine on a razor with practice and should be for sale everywhere. You could also look for a fine India oilstone. There aren't many vintage stones for razor bevel setting and you run the risk of an old synthetic stone being deteriorated.

 

[lightfoot]

I wouldn’t buy anything at all until you can buy the Shapton 1.5K or 2k. I have the King and it does work but the Shapton or the Chosera stones will provide a much more “precise” result IMHO…

 

[macintoshBR]

Get some 15um lapping film. 25 sheets for $10-15. You will be set for a very long time

 

[bluesman 7]

600 grit W/D will work if you're really counting pennies and only doing 1 or 2 razors.

 

[Wid]

Keep an eye out for an old Washita or get a hold of Jonathan Coe of Coe whetstones and get his coarse stone. His stones are hard to beat for the money.

 

[Samon]

Thank you all for the advice so far. Regarding grit ratings of random stones, is it safe to assume that 1k wet n dry sand paper will feel by touch the same or similar to a stone of the same grit? Is this a means of guessing the grit with little experience?

I ask because I dug out all my bench stones from my storage and checked my Norton Indias to see if any were fine (they're medium) and found another one I've never used which was a filthy synthetic of some kind. Once I pulled it out of its wooden case I could tell it's actually a duel grit stone and after I have it a bath and a scrub in the sink to remove the built up caked on slurry whoever owned it in the past left all over it the finer side is actually a fair bit finer than my pike medium grits. I put fresh bevels on all my cheap kitchen beater knives to see how it does. It cuts fast and seems alright, feels smoother to the touch than 800grit wet n dry sandpaper but I don't have much else to compare it to ATM as my polishing supplies are very low.

 

[rbscebu]

My understanding is that W&D grit ratings are not the same as whetstone grit ratings.

 

[Legion]

My first bevel setter was a king 800, and it did the job for not too much money. You need to be regular about lapping them flat.

 

[Slash McCoy]

600 grit W/D will work if you're really counting pennies and only doing 1 or 2 razors.

That.

Get a good brand, and get the red resin type sandpaper. 600 grit sandpaper will act about like a 400 grit stone. Great for a razor that is new from the Dovo factory, or a Gold Dollar, or a razor with big chips in it. You can make it work finer if you sharpen a couple of stainless steel chef knives on it, first, to knock the proud grits off. For most razors, 1k grit sandpaper will set the bevel nicely. It is important to have a FLAT FLAT FLAT plate under the sandpaper. Eyeball flat isn't good enough. Usually if you can find the sink cutout from a polished granite countertop, it will work. I use cast acrylic from TAP Plastics, and lately I have been gravitating toward 1-1/2" thick stuff. Plate (NOT FLOAT!) glass will work if it is thick enough, say 3/8", if you glue it to a thick base. Don't use wood or anything else that will swell, warp, or flex.

If your razor has ever had a good bevel set, and has not been damaged, then you don't really need to go all the way down to a standard bevel setting grit. You should only ever have to set the bevel on any given razor that you own, ONCE. So, if you only own one razor, or two or even three, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy a stone just for setting razor bevels. Except, a good bevel setter makes a good finisher for your kitchen knives, pocketknives, and work knives. And if you have use of a finisher for knives, then honestly I would spring for a 1k Chosera. It really is worth it. A significant quality downgrade, the King is. if me, you ask. You will be lapping that king literally every time you use it, sometimes twice or thrice in one session. To me, they are like a block of dried mud with a little abrasive grit mixed in. Still, better than the Sharp Pebble or Bear Moo grade of stones. The Norton 1k is about halfway between the King and Chosera, overall, IMHO. It is also a bit coarser than the grit rating suggests, behaving more like the Chosera 600. Nortons went way downhill a generation ago when production moved to Mexico, but lately they seem to be a little better, and maybe worth considering.

If you are happy with the edges you were getting before, you could just stick with what you got. Just be absolutely certain that your bevel is set before hitting your slate. That is a big jump and it won't perform miracles for you.

You might want to consider upping your game to lapping film.

Personally, I think getting off to a good start with razor honing is hard enough, without trying to make do with stones that are marginal at best. If you spend $260 on a full run of Naniwas, that's $260 down the hatch for a tool set that is definitely up to the task, that you can sell to recoup some of your loss if you find that good results elude you, and you throw in the towel. Most likely, if you are coming here for mentoring, you will succeed, and end up making edges as good as most professionals can make. If you spend $140 on a bare bones set of very mediocre stones and fail to master honing partly due to meh stones, then you have not merely spent, but wasted, all that money.

If you have your razor honed by a skilled honemeister, you should never have to do anything more than refresh the edge with the finisher of your choice. Talking about a one stone solution here. And your Welsh slate that you already own can fill that role adequately. Or you could spring for a Naniwa 12k SuperStone, a little pricey but respected as an easy to use finisher that turns out professional level results if you do your part.

I think the only way to really go super cheap here, is with a high quality plate of 1" or thicker acrylic, 2" x 12", from TAP Plastics or another REPUTABLE vendor, and lapping film. 1µ is the standard finishing grit, slightly finer than a 12k synthetic stone. You can get three or four pieces out of one sheet, and each piece will do between 10 and 20 razors. A full progression would be like 15µ, 9µ, 3µ, and 1µ. A few guys like .3µ for a crisper finish. You can tackle difficult jobs where a lot of steel has to come off, with the addition of 60µ and 30µ film, or the aforementioned sandpaper. The plate is also a very good size for a balsa progression, if ordinary professional grade edges are not good enough for you, in which case you will want four plates instead of just one. Your plate won't break or warp, and it can't wear out since the razor never touches it. Unlike wood, it won't swell or shrink or warp from age or changes in humidity. It is also lighter than glass or granite or marble.

Newbie Honing Compendium | Badger & Blade

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I think it really depends on what you intend to do. If it's just bevel setting a couple razors, lots of things will work. Lapping film gives you lots of options if you get a variety pack. W/D can work. If you envision honing a bunch of ebay specials you may as well save up for a decent synth that you'll enjoy honing on, because you're going to be spending more time on it than anything else.

A Shapton pro 1.5k is $40 on amazon in the US, not sure what it goes for in the UK but it's a nice stone, even not taking price into account. Film is cheaper if you buy just the coarse grits but you'll still need a flat substrate. Not sure what acrylic is going for, glass subway tiles are pretty cheap but you'll want to pick over them with a straightedge to find one that's actually flat.

But since you have a midrange and a finisher already, I'd lean towards saving up for a Shapton 1.5. I'm not sure if Naniwa still offers a 1k in that price range.

 

[cotedupy]

Id probably buy a king water stone 800, 1000 or 1200 grit. They all will set a bevel fine on a razor with practice and should be for sale everywhere. You could also look for a fine India oilstone. There aren't many vintage stones for razor bevel setting and you run the risk of an old synthetic stone being deteriorated.

^This^

All of them are superb stones, but the King 1200 in particular is majestic.

 

[thp001]

King 1K.

 

[6Cuda6]

My opinion, for what its worth, is learn to get the result you want from what you have instead of trying to buy more stones. I have many types of stones, in many price ranges, including a complete full set of Shapton's, and can use them well but none have made the edge near as fine as what Doc or Gamma can provide. Why you ask.....experience, time on the stone with a razor and the learnt knowledge of taking an edge from start to finish no matter what the stone. In short, its not the stone that makes the razor have the shaving edge you might desire, its the way the hand moves that edge over the stone.