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Being schooled by Shaptons

Sorry for the long post, but I learned a lot today.

So I bought Shapton Glass 1k HR, 4k HR and 8k HC.

I just started using them this weekend.

I had a fili 14 that has been a poor shaver in recent months. Didn't know what was wrong, just that working the finisher wasn't doing it.

Today I used it as part of my learning these Shaptons. I was told that the HR designation meant a very fast cutter, faster than the same grit size in the HC series.

Looking at the edge on loupe and tiny/cheap microscope, I was surprised. From the show side, from the middle, the bevel started to thin out and then toward the toe, completely disappear. What on earth was this? Either this blade isn't straight, or I'm not honing correctly.

Looking along the length, it looks straight. Maybe it's my honing?

I wanted to see if the 1k HR would bevel set, and how fast. And would it fix a problem as bad as this, or would I have to go to the fearsome atoma 400, with all the roughness and metal gobbling that diamond plates demand.

Turns out the this 1k creates bevels just fine. In fact faster than I expected. I did sixty circles on the back side with lots of pressure, and torquing the edge down.

I felt a burr along everything except the heel. Probably me not being even. So thirty aggressive circles, focusing on the heel.

Then I think I feel a burr everywhere. But I always have trouble sensing this burr, so went to examine it.

Yes, the whole back side looks good. In fact I think I over did it. Torn bits of threadlike metal were peeling off the edge.

Wow, this thing does cut fast.

Over to the show side, the problem side. Can I create a bevel from nothing, on the toe side?

So same treatment. On examination, what a surprise, a fresh bevel for two thirds of the show side, but the third toward the toe, that still lacks a bevel. What on earth?

So back to it again, and this time torquing it over and focusing on the toe area. And a lot of circles and aggression.

On examination, and holy cow, I have overdone it. A fresh bevel now exists on the show side. Great. But flipping it over, I see I way overdid it and in fact the toe has been ground down so much that about half of the bevel on the back side is just gone. I over honed and reduced too much edge.

Ok, so fix the back side. And exam. Then x strokes to even things out.

And halfway though my x strokes, I was thinking maybe my honing pressure was uneven. On exam the geometry of the blade seemed fine. And two years ago when I had Alfred hone it, he said nothing about geometry, and he would have noticed.

Thinking about that, I then saw my thumb. I am right handed. When pushing away from me, my thumb is on top of the tang, giving me good control. When I flip over at the top and start the return, however, my thumb is not on top of the tang. It just sits on the front. So it's more like my hand and forearm are delivering torque power.

So my honing style was not symmetrical. And I think that over the last two years, that asymmetry was gradually showing up in the bevel and edge.

Without a proper bevel, a large part of that razor was just not shaving. Was feeling tuggy now matter how much time on finishing stones I was doing.

Anyway. I changed my grip so I am now symmetrical.

Got the bevel looking good at 1k. Finished off with light pressure, as I now had a healthy respect for how damn fast this thing is. It was generating tons of black swarf, very quickly.

Then to 4k. It's also a HR, so again lots of swarf and quickly.

Bevel looking cleaner and shiny.

8k. This is not the HR, this is just the HC, so not so crazy fast. The hone is gray, not white and feels very different. A good example of how particle size is not everything.

Then black ark and shaved.

It shaved pretty good. Not perfect, but it needs more time on the ark, which is a slow finisher.

Learned a lot today.

I'm going to go through all my razors with close inspection now. I think many will be getting a workup from the bottom.

Aloha








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If I understood what you were saying, I will add for you to consider that sometimes when removing significant steel, enough your exposed bevel is moving/growing, sometimes you reveal grind/warp issues. Just saying that may not be you or pressure but the razor. If it really is you and applying too much pressure to one side.....then stop it :) But I suspect that would have caused you more obvious problems before now.

I saw some of your posts in another thread with bevel pictures. Lighting etc all has an affect but I couldn’t help but think you needed more time in the midrange to wipe out those large scratches. May even consider staying at the 1k to get clean and all your scratches lined up and near before that midrange. You may experience less swarf when you changes stones as well which might confirm. The bevel is not the edge.....but it does reach to it and large scratches will not be your friends.
 
I do like to attempt to create a burr initially and it should feel very subtle but not to the point that it’s interpretive. It should feel like a slight raking sensation on the opposite side that you just honed all along the edge. If I can’t raise a burr Using medium pressure with half strokes after X number of strokes I rely on feedback and undercut which isn’t absolute but some steel types resist the formation of a burr so keep that in mind.
Biggest point I can frame is using medium pressure while creating a burr. If it doesn’t form within 40-80 half-strokes I abandon this goal and fall back to something more conservative.
 
If I understood what you were saying, I will add for you to consider that sometimes when removing significant steel, enough your exposed bevel is moving/growing, sometimes you reveal grind/warp issues. Just saying that may not be you or pressure but the razor. If it really is you and applying too much pressure to one side.....then stop it :) But I suspect that would have caused you more obvious problems before now.

I saw some of your posts in another thread with bevel pictures. Lighting etc all has an affect but I couldn’t help but think you needed more time in the midrange to wipe out those large scratches. May even consider staying at the 1k to get clean and all your scratches lined up and near before that midrange. You may experience less swarf when you changes stones as well which might confirm. The bevel is not the edge.....but it does reach to it and large scratches will not be your friends.


Yeah, the main benefit of a usb microscope is sharing pictures and getting feedback on this forum.
 
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