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BBQ technique question

I'm doing briskets for 20+ on an overnight cook Saturday through Sunday.

I have done overnight cooks before and have the Minion method down pat.

This time I am doing something different, though, and was wondering if anyone else has tackled the issue I am confronting and if so how...

I'm doing 2 briskets of different sizes. I have a nicely trimmed 11lb. full brisket and a 5.5 first cut flat. I generally default to 1 1/2 hours at 225. I am aiming to have the meat done at about 5pm Sunday. So, I am targeting midnight to put the full brisket on the smoker, and then 9am for the little guy.

Here is where the problem comes in....

Smoke application? I put on the smoke in the first half of the cook. So the big guy will take smoke overnight and be done at about the time the little guy goes on. What then?

I don't want to give the big guy (the better meat) 10 hours of smoke, and I want the little guy to get some smoke too.

Suggestions?
 
Hmmm..How do you give smoke? The flat takes longer to cook/BBQ than the point- so I am not sure about your math.
If I were going to do a cook like this I would put them on at the same time and not worry about the numbers, just pull the meat when its ready. Remember the meat will only absorb smoke until the surface of the meat reaches 150 degrees or so. (The process of nitrating the meat-your smoke ring ) That can be as little as 2 hours in the smoker. After that there is no reason not to bring your temps up. I start at 250-275 and move to 325 after 2 hours.The famous Texas brisket joints do it high heat from the start!
An 18 lb brisket cooked this way will be done in under 8 hours and pass the probe test,where a probe goes in like butter. Let it rest for at least 2 hours.

Good luck
 
Hmmm..How do you give smoke? The flat takes longer to cook/BBQ than the point- so I am not sure about your math.
If I were going to do a cook like this I would put them on at the same time and not worry about the numbers, just pull the meat when its ready. Remember the meat will only absorb smoke until the surface of the meat reaches 150 degrees or so. (The process of nitrating the meat-your smoke ring ) That can be as little as 2 hours in the smoker. After that there is no reason not to bring your temps up. I start at 250-275 and move to 325 after 2 hours.The famous Texas brisket joints do it high heat from the start!
An 18 lb brisket cooked this way will be done in under 8 hours and pass the probe test,where a probe goes in like butter. Let it rest for at least 2 hours.

Good luck

Golden Advice!
 
Hmmm..How do you give smoke? The flat takes longer to cook/BBQ than the point- so I am not sure about your math.
If I were going to do a cook like this I would put them on at the same time and not worry about the numbers, just pull the meat when its ready. Remember the meat will only absorb smoke until the surface of the meat reaches 150 degrees or so. (The process of nitrating the meat-your smoke ring ) That can be as little as 2 hours in the smoker. After that there is no reason not to bring your temps up. I start at 250-275 and move to 325 after 2 hours.The famous Texas brisket joints do it high heat from the start!
An 18 lb brisket cooked this way will be done in under 8 hours and pass the probe test,where a probe goes in like butter. Let it rest for at least 2 hours.

Good luck

Jim, I have never done high heat brisket, and with the new WSM I'm not sure I know how. Remember, I have honed what little pit craft I have on the CAB! I will be home all day on Sunday so I could do it with high heat and play around, but if I miss the mark a lot of people go hungry or I spend lot of money on take out and then eat brisket for the next week! Worse things could happen then the latter, I guess:tongue_sm

Anyway, I give smoke with full size wood chunks sourced from Chuck's Smokehouse. The wood averages 2"x2" square chunks...perfect (imho) for a vertical water smoker and what I have used with great success for years.

Obviously, an 8 hour cook, without overnight maintenance and the worries accompanying such would be great. Can you recommend a method and recipe for such? I'm confident enough in my skills that I could pull it off...knowing me I would likely cook too hot rather than too cool in fact, but I am a bit hesitant jumping in feet first (cooking with a new method for a crowd) without some experienced guidance.
 
I do think you are wise in not deviating too much when you have guests coming over.

If you are more comfortable low and slow, why not start them both late at night and check them first thing in the AM?
 
I do think you are wise in not deviating too much when you have guests coming over.

If you are more comfortable low and slow, why not start them both late at night and check them first thing in the AM?

I'm gonna go for high heat method. I just consumed a great amount of info on the method off of the Virtual Weber Bullet forum and am confident I will not have any problems. In fact, it seems to be a simpler method than going low and slow.

I guess the question and strategy though remains the same, maybe more so with such a short period of time for the meat to take smoke....when to put the small one on and get it to take smoke?

Should I just go with smoke through the whole cook...putting the little one on at 2 hours in when I foil the big one?

Again, when did meat and fire become so variable?
 
Jim is right on, when the meat hits 150-160 degrees the process of smoking stops. After it hits that you could foil it or bring it indoors to finish. Starting with colder meat or using lower temperatures will prolong the cook time and make the "smoke ring" deaper. I cook/smoke with a wood burning fire in an off-set cooker and after 6-7 hours for ribs or 10-14 hours of cooking for butts and brisket with a smoke fire have never felt the meat was "over smoked". The key with that is more to ballance the wood burn with the temperature and draft so you have a light "blue" smoke coming out during the cook. If you are trying to cook with too much wood/fuel for the low temp you will get black or brown smoke that will give the food a foul tast and will coat the food with soot. Because the fuel (in excess) is starving for oxygen if you open the vents, it will burn, the smoke will change to the light blue, and the temp will go up beyond what your target is. With charcoal and a few chunks of wood you should not have much trouble as I feel the wood is what does the smoking and that the charcoal burns cleaner even when starved for o2 or with poor draft.

I would start them at the same time and pull the smaller off when ready (or a bit early) and re-heat at dinner time. One less thing to worry about and Q will re-heat just fine. Trying to get mixed meats and mixed sizes to be done at the same time is not an exact science (from my Q experience).
 
Brodirt-Since you have your mind made up on the cooking style I would like to recommend you try this one sometime. I have done this method and it works for me when smoking....

First off I am no expert pit master, but an avid weekend warrior. I like the low and slow method for smoking all meats and fish. I don't like to rush, that is when I get in trouble. If you want smoke on all your pieces then I would do this. Put both of your cuts on at the same time. Like mentioned the smoke will only be taken into the meat until it reaches a temp of 150 degress. I put my meat on from the fride also. I don't let it assume room temp. to help with this.... So when both pieces are taking smoke I will put a thermometer in the smaller cut. When your desired temp is reached, pull it, wrap it in foil, and put it in a cooler... When in the cooler place blankets on it and let it rest until your other cut is done.

I have done this method with pork shoulders(picnic's) with great results. I have left them overnite with the shoulders only droping 40-50 degrees.

This is just another method for all to try. I love it and use it most of the time with great results. Let us know how it turns out and GOOD LUCK>>>
 

Alacrity59

Wanting for wisdom
This is great information. I've always done the 225 degree slow cook usually finishing off inside in the oven with a probe thermometer. I may just hit the butcher shop tomorrow and try the higher heat method. Thanks Jim.
 
Ok...dinner has been eaten.

Let me say first...thanks for all the help here, it really does help to have a friendly word of advice when you are in the wilderness alone. Second, somehow I managed this cook on the same weekend I raced Saturday and installed a dishwasher today (Sunday) all while, as I am sure Jim will attest to, we NYers were getting dumped on with some serious rain.

I did this cook today while installing my new dishwasher in a huge thunderstorm. So while wet and smokey i found myself working with plumbing and electricity. I was not a happy camper...my blood pressure was through the roof for most of the day and in all honesty it defeated the pleasure of bbqing, which to me at least, is very cathartic....anyway, onto the meat.

I ran a high heat cook as I couldn't manage the low and slow...Saturday's lactic acid brain was just not going to let me start a cook at 1am. I did two 15 mile time trials on Saturday..one individual and one team, picniced with the team and families afterwards, got home at 8pm and then went out for dinner...an overnight cook wasnt happening!

Ok, so...I did a wet rub. Pretty standard....salt, pepper, cayenne, paprika, onion powder, worchestire sauce and planned for a hot fast cook.

I ran a chimney of Kingsford to white and dumped it on a ring of fresh Kingsford on the WSM (no water and a full foiled water pan) and gave 10 minutes of full air before I assembled the full cooker. Upon assembly I put the small flat on the top grate and the full packer on the lower grate. Within a few minutes the WSM was running too hot at about 375.

Then the rains came and with it the problems.

For the next 4 1/2 hours I struggled with temps, smoke and rain. I ran the WSM with the door full open, and then upside down and partially propped and then upside down and cracked. It was tough to manage 325-350 in the rain as the Weber wanted to run at about 290 with the door closed and about 375 with the door open. Propping seemed to do the work but I was really only getting it to run steady at 310 or so.

I applied a ton of crab apple and hickory wood for the first 2 hours and when the little flat hit 158 I foiled. That was about 2 1/4 hours in.

Way sooner than expected the full packer was too hot and I wound up foiling at 172-175. This was less than 2 1/2 hours in.

I ran the cooker door closed and vents opened for the rest of the cook figuring that the thermometer might not have been telling me the true story of what was going on in the cooker. I pulled the flat off at 3:45 in and put it in the 38qt igloo. This was right about 4pm.

The big guy came off only 30 minutes later and was again too hot at 185 on the instant read thermometer. Never the less it looked right on and went in the igloo at 4:15.

I cooked up some mustard vinegar sauce and then went and showered.

Earlier the plans had changed and I was taking the cooked meat to my sister in laws place where there is more room for such a big group....they have 2 acres in Irvington NY, with a tennis court and a HUGE patio....I didn't care, easier for me...I have problems with parties of 12 in my 1/3 acre 2500' postage stamp home and its only a 10 minute drive from my place.

I sliced the meat at 7:15. It came out great. A lot of juice and a wonderful 1/3" smoke ring. No camera, sorry. It was a bit dry for my taste, I like the fall apart style of brisket, but no one was complaining and even my Nashville hardened family in for the weekend were all saying "good barbeque."

So, for my first time on high heat it worked. It was both easier and harder than low and slow. I was stressed out and it took a big drink to take the edge off and that just shouldnt be. Next time will be easier, but I will have to analyze whether or not it is really better to lose a little sleep or go with high heat.

I must say, 5 hours total time is a darned good way to cook 18 pounds of meat.
 
FWIW I have never over-smoked brisket, pork shoulder, or even ribs. I've never actually over-smoked anything, but I think it'd be very tough to do with those cuts. Probably impossible with pork shoulder given how little of the meat actually gets exposed to the smoke.

Something like fish or chicken I could easily see being a problem.
 
Congrat's Brodirt! Foul weather BBQ is the most challenging, add company and deadlines and it can feel like work. Glad you pulled it off! You can always pull it off at 150 and finish inside but what fun is that?

Keep in mind, relax - it's only BBQ!:biggrin:
 
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