Barrister & Mann - Optimization Results, Photos, Review, Details

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

With WhollyKow make sure you test the Donkey Milk version. For me and my face..that’s the top soap out there. Did I add ymmv....

Thanks. I'll make sure to do that when I get there.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

My way of face lathering is not dependent on the amount of product nor the amount of water. It is scientific only in the sense that the results are consistent as viewed by me. If I try a soap which doesn't give me the results I demand using the method I use, that lather is wiped off, and the soap goes to soap heaven.

I put some water, not a measured amount, on the top of the puck before my shower. After the shower, that water is poured into a smallish copper and tin bowl, and used to dip my brush tips.

Also, before my shower my brush goes in a mug of water to soak. I soak all brushes - boar, badger, or synthetic - for consistency.

After the shower I apply my homemade shaving oil. Then, I shake the water out of the brush and begin loading the brush. I want "a lot" of product on my brush, visibly a lot. After I have a lot on the brush, I turn the puck's container upside down and load the brush some more with the bristles pointing upwards having dipped them into the water just a little bit. This is silly probably but maybe it gets a bit of the soap down into the brush, but not much water at all.

Then I apply the rather dry soap to my face and neck like spackling paste (sorta kinda). I'm shooting for a particular look here.

Throughout the process I'm always willing to revisit the puck and load more product.

When the look I want is achieved, I add water in stages, dipping the tips of the brush, working the water into the paste on my face, dipping again, etc. Again, I am aiming for a particular look - creamy, a little bit foamy, and well hydrated. I always achieve this, or I wipe the stuff off, and use a "good" soap.

I want this same final look with every lathering.

Obviously, this method does not lend itself to your quantitative analysis methodology. Mine is much more artful, and qualitative, but it works very well, and it is not at all dependent on discovery of product to soap ratios or anything like that. I only care about the final look of the lather on my face, and I've found a way to consistently achieve it across the various soaps I use.

I am not advocating my method for anyone else. It works well for me, but it might not work at all well for anyone else.

Happy shaves,

Jim

That's great, Jim, that you have a consistent method. I hope that I didn't give the impression that you or anyone else couldn't be consistent without mass measurements. I don't think that you got that impression, but I wanted to make myself clear for those who might have misunderstood what I wrote. I just meant that I had trouble being consistent with loading the brush and bowl lathering before I started measuring mass. Ever since that point, making lather has been easy for me and very consistent. What you're saying about your face lathering method makes sense. It does seem like it would be easier to be consistent with face lathering that way because you have a large surface area for spreading out the protolather and assessing progress. You can see and feel how things are going and adjust accordingly.

Regarding the "final look" that you're going for, you said that you aim for "creamy, a little bit foamy, and well hydrated", and if you don't get that look, then it's curtains for that soap. I get that. Of the "good" soaps that I've used, your description fits fairly well. However, have you experimented with each soap to find variations in their optimum "looks"? Have you found that one soap or another seems to want more or less water for the appearance that is associated with the soap's best performance? Has it ever seemed that one soap is "thirstier" than another to reach its optimum?

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

That's great, Jim, that you have a consistent method. I hope that I didn't give the impression that you or anyone else couldn't be consistent without mass measurements. I don't think that you got that impression...

I didn't, Grant. You were clear.

Also, to be explicit, and clear, I appreciate the science, and your stuff.

Of the "good" soaps that I've used, your description fits fairly well. However, have you experimented with each soap to find variations in their optimum "looks?" Have you found that one soap or another seems to want more or less water for the appearance that is associated with the soap's best performance? Has it ever seemed that one soap is "thirstier" than another to reach its optimum?

Yes, on all of these questions.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I didn't, Grant. You were clear.

Also, to be explicit, and clear, I appreciate the science, and your stuff.

Likewise.

Yes, on all of these questions.

Ah! Cool! Your optimization during lather building is based on look and feel, while my optimization is based on mass measurements, but at least we are both optimizing.

 

[Esox]

I'm looking for the BEST!

Tabac.



I would agree with Jim that Stirling is a good soap, but I find myself only rarely using any of the 13 I have. Loaded heavily it performs easily well enough and I'd put it solidly into the mid range of shave soaps. Right where I believe it is.

Captain's Choice creams, for how I like my lather perform better. Scotts soaps I've found similar performance but my experience is limited to samples.

The performance of Tabac vs Stirling hmmm. I've only used Tabac twice now but the performance far exceeds Stirling in my opinion. If only Tabac had as a wide a scent range, or Stirling had that magical combination of ingredients...

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Ah! Cool! Your optimization during lather building is based on look and feel, while my optimization is based on mass measurements, but at least we are both optimizing.

Nicely stated, Grant.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Tabac.



I would agree with Jim that Stirling is a good soap, but I find myself only rarely using any of the 13 I have. Loaded heavily it performs easily well enough and I'd put it solidly into the mid range of shave soaps. Right where I believe it is.

Captain's Choice creams, for how I like my lather perform better. Scotts soaps I've found similar performance but my experience is limited to samples.

The performance of Tabac vs Stirling hmmm. I've only used Tabac twice now but the performance far exceeds Stirling in my opinion. If only Tabac had as a wide a scent range, or Stirling had that magical combination of ingredients...

Thanks for the tip, Mike. I added Tabac to the list.

 

[Bbb34]

So, thanks to this (and few other) thead(s) I finally picked up and got to try one of Stirling soaps.

Of course at this point it's only initial impression, need to use it a bit longer, but performance wise it really reminded me of Haslinger. They are very similar in many ways. Great lather, good slickness and residual slickness, down to every so slightly "soapy" drying aftershave feel.

It's "shaving by numbers" so it's unfortunate scent strength is impossible to rate being subjective and all, both, Hasslinger and Stirling are somewhat faint when lathered. Great time to be consumer, demanding both, perfect scent (and scent strength) and performance.

B&M Seville might remain one that makes those shaves feel extra special for me due to simply intoxicating unique scent. Performance wise for me it's too close to call between Sudsy, B&M and this initial impression of Stirling.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

So, thanks to this (and few other) thead(s) I finally picked up and got to try one of Stirling soaps.

Of course at this point it's only initial impression, need to use it a bit longer, but performance wise it really reminded me of Haslinger. They are very similar in many ways. Great lather, good slickness and residual slickness, down to every so slightly "soapy" drying aftershave feel.

It's "shaving by numbers" so it's unfortunate scent strength is impossible to rate being subjective and all, both, Hasslinger and Stirling are somewhat faint when lathered. Great time to be consumer, demanding both, perfect scent (and scent strength) and performance.

B&M Seville might remain one that makes those shaves feel extra special for me due to simply intoxicating unique scent. Performance wise for me it's too close to call between Sudsy, B&M and this initial impression of Stirling.

Cool! I'm glad to have been a small part in your trying of Stirling. Thanks for sharing. You're right about how it's a great time to be a consumer. B&M, Sudsy, Stirling, etc. So many choices, so little time.

 

[Tokyospike]

Thanks, as always, Grant. I'm always interested, even though I think I'm done buying soap for the next year or more. Of the six I'm using, two are Stirling, so no surprise there. Two others are Cold River Soap Works (Select and Glide formulae) - if we live long enough, I hope you get around to those.

 

[BigJ]

OUTSTANDING! Terrific comparative review. Thanks!

 

[Larry Telencio]

Wow, thank you Grant for your review, it is very timely for me as I am starting to switch from creams to soaps, all your information is really helpful. I only have Latha at present and was just getting ready to order some B&M reserve today ( I notice reserve is not part of your test), also looking closely at Mikes's and Declaration Grooming. I have only used British creams in the past TOBS,GFT,T&H etc. While there is nothing with the creams I find a superior performance from the Latha so I look forward to finding the right quality soap. Thanks again!

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Thanks, as always, Grant. I'm always interested, even though I think I'm done buying soap for the next year or more. Of the six I'm using, two are Stirling, so no surprise there. Two others are Cold River Soap Works (Select and Glide formulae) - if we live long enough, I hope you get around to those.

Thanks, Spike. CRSW is high on my list of soaps to review.

OUTSTANDING! Terrific comparative review. Thanks!

My pleasure, BigJ.

Wow, thank you Grant for your review, it is very timely for me as I am starting to switch from creams to soaps, all your information is really helpful. I only have Latha at present and was just getting ready to order some B&M reserve today ( I notice reserve is not part of your test), also looking closely at Mikes's and Declaration Grooming. I have only used British creams in the past TOBS,GFT,T&H etc. While there is nothing with the creams I find a superior performance from the Latha so I look forward to finding the right quality soap. Thanks again!

You're welcome, Larry. I hope that my analyses help you find what works best for you. I haven't tried a cream yet, but TOBS will probably be the first.

 

[Bbb34]

Cool! I'm glad to have been a small part in your trying of Stirling. Thanks for sharing. You're right about how it's a great time to be a consumer. B&M, Sudsy, Stirling, etc. So many choices, so little time.

4 shaves in with Stirling, and I have to say it's simply fantastic performing soap. Expectations were high and still, for me it delivered, that says a lot. I would still like the scent to be ever so slightly stronger, but I do like this one a lot.

As a side note, I managed (yeah, big spender this month) to order another one from your list.
L&L (or Declaration Grooming these days) Trismegistus (ouch... that's a mouthful for sure) soap.

Wish I can give you full credit for this one too but @discerningbev gets most credit (or blame, we shall see) for this one.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

4 shaves in with Stirling, and I have to say it's simply fantastic performing soap. Expectations were high and still, for me it delivered, that says a lot. I would still like the scent to be ever so slightly stronger, but I do like this one a lot.

As a side note, I managed (yeah, big spender this month) to order another one from your list.
L&L (or Declaration Grooming these days) Trismegistus (ouch... that's a mouthful for sure) soap.

Wish I can give you full credit for this one too but @discerningbev gets most credit (or blame, we shall see) for this one.

Hey! Good news! Thanks for sharing. I'm glad that Stirling is working out for you. Declaration Grooming might also work very well for you. I didn't like it as much as Stirling, but there are surely others that like Declaration Grooming more. Currently, I'm on the tail end of evaluating L'Occitane, so I hope to have that review posted next week, and after that, Mystic Water is on deck.

 

[robphilldog]

Thanks! I wonder how many here agree with my assessment. I'm waiting for a soap that beats out Stirling and have some ideas about which soaps might do that. B&M couldn't do it. If I had to rank according to value, then I'd probably place B&M above Declaration Grooming, though, because of their prices. Still, Stirling beats the two of them in that area, too.

The Stirling is definitely a worthy top place on your ranking. Where would you place Grooming Dept on your list?

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

The Stirling is definitely a worthy top place on your ranking. Where would you place Grooming Dept on your list?

Since this thread, I've improved my lather optimization method by incorporating lather-building time. I had to start over. Here are my latest results, which are now conveniently in the ShaveWiki:

Lather Optimization Guide

Stirling is still up there, and it is still a great value, but in my updated rankings, Barrister and Mann is now above Stirling in performance. It was close, though: "Since B&M seems more well-rounded with respect to its slickness and post-shave, I gave the edge to B&M over Stirling."

I haven't tried Grooming Dept yet, but it's in my list of soaps to try. It has a great reputation.

 

[robphilldog]

Since this thread, I've improved my lather optimization method by incorporating lather-building time. I had to start over. Here are my latest results, which are now conveniently in the ShaveWiki:

Lather Optimization Guide

Stirling is still up there, and it is still a great value, but in my updated rankings, Barrister and Mann is now above Stirling in performance. It was close, though: "Since B&M seems more well-rounded with respect to its slickness and post-shave, I gave the edge to B&M over Stirling."

I haven't tried Grooming Dept yet, but it's in my list of soaps to try. It has a great reputation.

hmm interesting, thanks you've given me a lot to consider.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

hmm interesting, thanks you've given me a lot to consider.

You're welcome. If you have any questions about lather optimization, you can ask them in my lather optimization thread:

Lather Optimization Updates

 

[Music]

Thanks for this great write-up and the work that went into it! I'm interested that you don't rank any of these soaps anywhere above "good" as far as cushion goes, and would love to know if you test anything that does better in that regard. My personal (unscientific) results are similar to yours - I rank Declaration Grooming, Eufros and Wholly Kaw the best in terms of lather, shave experience, cushion/protection and slickness, with Mike's just below those three. Sudsy Soapery and B&M are great but have not given me as good results as the top three. I haven't tried Grooming Department (because it's always sold out). Thanks again for your reports!