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Barrister & Mann - Optimization Results, Photos, Review, Details

NOTICE
  • The following review of the soap/cream includes a scientific analysis with repeatable results for how my sample of the soap/cream works for me during shaves of my face and neck. The opinions of those who use or have tried the soap/cream are respected as just as valid. No claims are made about how the soap/cream would work for those who have not tried it.
  • The optimum lather for the soap/cream was found that works best for me in both amount (total mass for three passes) and, more importantly, hydration (ratio of water mass to soap/cream mass). This optimum was determined through a series of shaves with lathers composed of various combinations of soap/cream and moderately hard water masses.
  • For each lather, soap/cream and water masses were measured in a lathering bowl and then the lather was built in the lathering bowl using the same initially dry synthetic-hair brush. Details of the optimization process can be found below the optimum lather table, which shows optimum lathers ranked against each other according to performance.
  • Analysis of each soap and cream is presumed to apply to all versions with the same formulation but with different scents. Formulations of the soaps and creams may have changed since optimizations were performed, and even if a formulation remains the same, samples of the same soap or cream may differ due to quality control issues and other factors.
  • Mass measurements are useful for making very consistent lather and studying how soaps and creams behave, but no one needs to measure mass to make great lather. Nevertheless, it is hoped that the optimization results presented here may help others find what works best for them.

7th Addition to Optimum Lather Table: Barrister & Mann (B&M) Comes in Behind Stirling and Declaration Grooming


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Purchase Date: October 19, 2017

Packaging: The packaging was excellent! Contents were packed tightly with packaging paper in a small shipping box. As shown below, the soap jar was even specially wrapped and samples of Barrister's Reserve Cool shaving soap and aftershave splash were included. Finally, a handwritten note was included on the packing slip.

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Container: The container comes with 4 oz. of soap, as shown unused in the first picture above. The jar and cap are made of white plastic. The top of the cap is smooth, without a lip, and has a slick, presumably water-resistant circular label on it. The cap does not have a foam liner. Two mostly black stickers are on the cap; one sticker bears the name of the soap and folds over some onto the side of the cap, while a wider sticker serves as a breakable seal and folds over onto the side of the jar. The name of the soap is printed directly on the side of the jar, rather than on a label stuck to the side of the jar. A clear, presumably water-resistant circular label bears the ingredients list and other information on the bottom of the jar. The jar with the cap screwed on is widest around the transition from the jar to the cap, and the outer diameter of the jar with the cap is about 4.09 in., as measured with a digital caliper. The height of the jar with the cap screwed on is about 1.43 in. The inner diameter of the jar is about 3.69 in. at the top of the jar, and the space between the unused soap and the top of the jar is roughly 0.4 in.

Ingredients: Potassium Stearate, Aqua, Glycerin, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Tallowate, Sodium Tallowate, Potassium Ricinoleate, Potassium Shea Butterate, Sodium Ricinoleate, Coconut Milk, Sodium Shea Butterate, Carthamus tinctorius hybrid (Hybrid Safflower) Seed Oil, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Allantoin, Lanolin, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Citrate, Citrus bergamia (Bergamot) Oil, Salvia sclarea (Clary Sage) Oil, Lavandula angustifolia (Lavender) Oil, Pogostemon cablin (Patchouli) Oil, Tocopherol Acetate, Hydrolyzed Silk Protein

Appearance: Light yellow with some shininess and sparkling

Scent: The scent is created with essential oils only, a blend of "American clary sage, bergamot, and small amounts of lavender and patchouli to create a very realistic interpretation of the smell of Earl Grey (the tea, not the man)", according to B&M's website. To my unsophisticated nose, the soap has a subdued lemony scent which is very nice. The scent is present, but not strong.

Hardness: Soft, based on my limited experience

Loading and Building: The soap is soft enough that one could easily overload a shaving brush. Bowl lathering with the soap is easy, requiring a fairly normal amount of time. It is presumed that face lathering would also go smoothly.

Optimization Results with Exact Lathers: Finding my optimum lather for B&M Cheshire involved twenty-six (26) shaves between December 9, 2017, and January 14, 2018. Total mass (as soap mass plus water mass) ranged from 7.98 g to 10.50 g and water-to-soap ratio (as water mass divided by soap mass) ranged from 5 to 20. The following table summarizes key results, covering only a few of the water-to-soap ratios that were used:

Water-to-Soap RatioKey Points
5Very thick lather with choppy application and longer rinsing from razor. Slickness ranged from bad to very good. Cushion and post-shave were very good or excellent.
10.5 (Optimum)Slickness was mostly good with significant friction at several locations. Cushion and post-shave were good.
15Slickness was generally good, but there was a little stick-slip after the first pass. Cushion was okay or pretty good. Post-shave was good.
20Adhesion and application were okay, not good. Slickness was generally very good, but there was friction at times and stick-slip was significant in the second pass and awful in the third pass. Cushion was okay. Post-shave was good, but on dry side.

The optimum total mass was found to be around 9 g and the optimum water-to-soap ratio was found to be around 10.5. Optimums were fairly found by jumping around in total mass values and water-to-soap ratios from shave to shave, narrowing the jumps as the optimum values were zeroed in on. As previously found with optimizations of other soaps, increasing the water-to-soap ratio led to increasing overall slickness, increasing instances of stick-slip, decreasing cushion, and decreasing post-shave. In the end, distinguishing differences between shaves with water-to-soap ratios of 10 and 11 was difficult, but a water-to-soap ratio of 10.5 seemed to split the difference or at least serve as a good compromise.

The optimum lather was found to have some yogurt-like behavior, but there is a lightness to the lather. The sheen is pretty good, and the adhesion and application are pretty good or good. More importantly, slickness was found to be okay to good, mostly good, but significant friction was experienced during the second and third passes at several locations, particularly on my chin, above the lip, and on the sides. This friction was found to become halting with a lot of blade buffing due to a lack of residual slickness. Cushion was good. Post-shave was also good, but due to very low humidity in the air during testing, post-shave was generally drier than normal, so I had to adjust my evaluation accordingly.

Full Shot of Optimum Lather in Bowl:

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Full Shot of Optimum Lather on Brush:

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Extreme Close-Up of Optimum Lather with Millimeter-Marked Scale:

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Ranking Results: Ranking tests were conducted from January 14, 2018, to January 18, 2018, with daily shaves using optimum lathers of soaps in the following order: B&M, Stirling, B&M, Declaration Grooming, B&M. Alternating back and forth between soaps, without changing the setup of the razor and blade, really helps with ranking. Stirling's optimum lather was definitely better with more slickness and more cushion for each pass, but seemingly with a little drier post-shave. Due to the better slickness, it seemed that I got a closer shave with less nicks/cuts. Stirling's optimum lather was noticeably thicker and richer when building in the bowl and applying to the face. Declaration Grooming's optimum lather was more similar to B&M's optimum lather, but Declaration Grooming's lather seemed denser, richer, and a little better on slickness. There was some significant friction on the chin near the end of buffing with Declaration Grooming, along with friction on the sides near the end of the second and third passes, but slickness was still better than with B&M. With B&M ranked below Stirling and Declaration Grooming based on sequential shaves, I confidently placed B&M above Sudsy Soapery based on memory and previous results. If I had some remaining Sudsy Soapery to conduct a ranking test, I would have done so.

Final Thoughts: Barrister & Mann's classic/original shaving soap has excellent packaging, and was sent with great care, which I really appreciate, but the performance of the soap does not reach the same level of excellence, in my opinion. It is still a good soap, though, just not the best that I've used.

Optimum Lather Table


PRPerformance Ranking
PDPurchase Date (YYYY-MM-DD)
SCMSoap/Cream Mass (g)
WMWater Mass (g)
TMTotal Mass (g) = SCM + WM
WSCRWater-to-Soap/Cream Ratio = WM / SCM
SCPSoap/Cream Price (USD)

PRSoap/CreamPDSCMWMTMWSCRSCP
1Stirling Soap Co. Shave Soap2016-12-191.09.010.09.000.08
2Declaration Grooming (Formerly L&L Grooming) Shaving Soap2017-08-111.08.59.58.500.16
3Barrister & Mann (Not Barrister's Reserve) Shaving Soap2017-10-190.788.198.9710.500.13
4The Sudsy Soapery Shave Soap2016-11-090.87.68.49.500.08
5Barrister & Mann Latha Shaving Soap2016-11-261.08.09.08.000.10
6Lisa's Natural Herbal Creations Wet Shave Soap2017-03-180.87.28.09.000.06
7Mitchell's Wool Fat Shaving Soap2016-06-260.276.757.0225.000.03

General Notes:
  • As documented on August 27, 2017, soap/cream and moderately hard water masses, at room temperature, were directly measured in a smooth lathering bowl and lather was built with conventional agitation using a dry synthetic brush, so as to make exact lather for each shave. Masses were measured using either a 0.1 g resolution scale with a heavier lathering bowl or a 0.01 g resolution scale with a lighter lathering bowl.
  • Based on slower three-pass shaves with blade buffing using chrome-plated DE safety razors with agreeable blades and blade exposures, water-to-soap/cream ratio was generally optimized to the nearest 0.5 value while total mass was simultaneously optimized as precisely as could be accomplished by varying soap/cream and water masses from day to day. Lather from inside the brush was used as much as possible in order to effectively eliminate the influence of the brush on total mass.
  • Before each pass, extra time was taken to wipe away excess water from the face and allow the face to effectively dry. During each pass, the razor was quickly shaken a few times after each rinse so that excess water would be reasonably removed from the razor. These measures were taken in order to minimize the small additions of water that naturally occur to the lather during a shave.
  • Rankings were aided by revisiting previously determined optimums and comparing optimum lathers in sequential shaves.
  • Prices are current median values among the available versions of each soap and cream. However, the current formulations of the soaps and creams may be different from those associated with the purchase dates and the optimization results.
  • The table is sortable such that clicking on a column heading sorts the rows according to that column's data, and clicking on the column heading again reverses the sorting order. Product names are links to full review and optimization results for the particular versions of the soaps and creams used.
Ranking Notes:
  1. Stirling Soap Co. Shave Soap: Lather is soft and uniform with some yogurt-like behavior and only a few small bubbles. Sheen is pretty good or good. Adhesion and application are pretty good or good. Slickness is generally good, but there is typically some friction near the end of passes. Cushion is okay or pretty good. Post-shave is fairly good, but a little on the dry side.
  2. Declaration Grooming (Formerly L&L Grooming) Shaving Soap: Lather takes time to build, but it has some yogurt-like behavior and only a few small bubbles. Adhesion and application smoothness are pretty good or good. Slickness is okay to good, mostly good, with friction near the end of passes. Cushion is pretty good. Post-shave is good.
  3. Barrister & Mann (Not Barrister's Reserve) Shaving Soap: Lather has some yogurt-like behavior, but there is a lightness to the lather. Sheen is pretty good. Adhesion and application are pretty good or good. Slickness is okay to good, mostly good, but significant friction may be experienced at several locations, especially during blade buffing due to a lack of residual slickness. Cushion is good. Post-shave is good.
  4. The Sudsy Soapery Shave Soap: Lather is noticeably airy with a uniform cell structure and foam-like behavior, as opposed to yogurt-like behavior, but there are only a few larger bubbles. Sheen is not good because lather has more of a matte finish. Adhesion and application are okay, at best. Slickness is okay to good, mostly good, but there is significant friction at the end of passes and slickness seems to deteriorate with blade buffing due to a lack of residual slickness. Cushion is not much, and the lack of protection is noticeable. Post-shave is okay, but it is kind of dry.
  5. Barrister & Mann Latha Shaving Soap: Lather is neither like yogurt nor creamy, but lather is uniform with respect to very small air cells. Lather does not have much adhesion to skin during application. Sheen is nice, but not brilliant. Slickness is mostly good with some very good moments, but there is some friction near the end of passes. Cushion is not much, although it is fine. Post-shave is kind of dry with some overall irritation.
  6. Lisa's Natural Herbal Creations Wet Shave Soap: Lather is airy with uniformly tiny air cells and few visible small air bubbles. Sheen is okay, but not good or brilliant. Adhesion to skin is pretty good. Application is smooth enough, but not very smooth. Slickness is okay overall, with some good moments and virtually no stick-slip, but there is friction at times and near the end of passes. Cushion is okay, but it is not much. Post-shave is fairly dry with some irritation that probably corresponds with the irritation felt during and after application for the third pass.
  7. Mitchell's Wool Fat Shaving Soap: Lather builds relatively quickly to a sparkly foam that collapses to some degree during application and dissipates somewhat during passes. Slickness is okay overall, ranging from awful to pretty good, and a little stick-slip might occur. Cushion is very little. Post-shave is kind of dry.
 
Very good write up!

Thanks! :001_smile I wonder how many here agree with my assessment. I'm waiting for a soap that beats out Stirling and have some ideas about which soaps might do that. B&M couldn't do it. If I had to rank according to value, then I'd probably place B&M above Declaration Grooming, though, because of their prices. Still, Stirling beats the two of them in that area, too.
 

Rhody

I'm a Lumberjack.
wow what an amazing scientific review. very impressive. I haven't used a B/M soap in awhile. I have used your number 1,2, 4 & 6 but I am not qualified to report if I think they beat out Stirling.
 
Interesting. Thanks for doing this work.

I've tried a ton of soaps over the years and I tend to agree that Stirling ticks all the boxes. At the top or very near the top just subjectively.
 
wow what an amazing scientific review. very impressive. I haven't used a B/M soap in awhile. I have used your number 1,2, 4 & 6 but I am not qualified to report if I think they beat out Stirling.

Thanks, Rhody. I appreciate it. (I wish that I didn't have that notice at the top, but I added that after considerable feedback in my optimization thread for MWF. Maybe I should get rid of the notice or significantly cut it down.) Out of all of the soaps that you've tried that aren't in my list, what soaps would you say beat out Stirling?
 
Interesting. Thanks for doing this work.

I've tried a ton of soaps over the years and I tend to agree that Stirling ticks all the boxes. At the top or very near the top just subjectively.

Thanks, Randall. It's my pleasure. Thanks for your feedback based on your extensive soap experience. I'm sure that I'll evaluate a soap that beats Stirling someday, but even when that happens, Stirling will still be a good value.
 
Very nice...but personally.....I have only one evaluative criteria......How does it work for me?

Yes! I agree. As mentioned in the notice at the top of the thread, my analysis isn't meant to say how the soap would work for anyone else. I do hope, though, that my optimization results will help others find soaps that work best for them and help others to make the soaps that they do have work better for them.
 

Rhody

I'm a Lumberjack.
Thanks, Rhody. I appreciate it. (I wish that I didn't have that notice at the top, but I added that after considerable feedback in my optimization thread for MWF. Maybe I should get rid of the notice or significantly cut it down.) Out of all of the soaps that you've tried that aren't in my list, what soaps would you say beat out Stirling?
I guess it makes the legal department happy! lol
based on my limited experience there are very few of my collection that I "hate" but off the top of my head I would suggest Mike's or saponificio varesino or WK. but Stirling is hard to beat.
 
I guess it makes the legal department happy! lol
based on my limited experience there are very few of my collection that I "hate" but off the top of my head I would suggest Mike's or saponificio varesino or WK. but Stirling is hard to beat.

Thanks. (Legal department. :laugh:) I've got WK and Mike's in a list of soaps to try. I just added SV. :001_smile
 
Haven't tried Stirling yet (tempted now once again), but I do like both, B&M (Seville is one of my favorite scents) and Sudsy.

Now I'm not sure how they would compare to Stirling, but Midnight & Two and Haslinger could be added to your list, both good performers in my opinion.
 
Haven't tried Stirling yet (tempted now once again), but I do like both, B&M (Seville is one of my favorite scents) and Sudsy.

Now I'm not sure how they would compare to Stirling, but Midnight & Two and Haslinger could be added to your list, both good performers in my opinion.

Thanks for the suggestions. I added Midnight & Two and Haslinger to the list. :001_smile
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
To me, Stirling is not bad, but not great either. I don't get why so many people like it so much.

Captain's Choice is better. Proraso Red (in a tub) is better. Wickham 1912 is better still. Saponificio Varesino 4.3 is significantly better.

I have not tried every soap made, of course, and I'm sure soaps are somewhat subjective. I know, too, that there is some degree of art involved in lathering them; it is not all science. Still, I appreciate your controlled experiments, and understand that it is impossible for you to test every soap. I suspect over time more interesting soap tests will appear as you have the time, the soap, and the interest.

In other words, great job, Grant, but you're missing out on some great soaps so far. Had you only tested the soaps I mentioned in the first paragraph someone else would be saying the exact same thing, and listing their favorites, but I'm right and they're wrong.

Just kidding there at the end.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 

Ron R

I survived a lathey foreman
Hello Grant, another outstanding review of Barrister- Mann Cheshire soap from your hobby of shaving.
I have watched videos of folks using this soap and the lather looks great and there is hardly ever a negative remark towards their soaps. Hope you keep doing reviews like this in the future, there are some who like science in shaving.:detective::cursing:
 
To me, Stirling is not bad, but not great either. I don't get why so many people like it so much.

Captain's Choice is better. Proraso Red (in a tub) is better. Wickham 1912 is better still. Saponificio Varesino 4.3 is significantly better.

I have not tried every soap made, of course, and I'm sure soaps are somewhat subjective. I know, too, that there is some degree of art involved in lathering them; it is not all science. Still, I appreciate your controlled experiments, and understand that it is impossible for you to test every soap. I suspect over time more interesting soap tests will appear as you have the time, the soap, and the interest.

In other words, great job, Grant, but you're missing out on some great soaps so far. Had you only tested the soaps I mentioned in the first paragraph someone else would be saying the exact same thing, and listing their favorites, but I'm right and they're wrong.

Just kidding there at the end.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Jim, maybe if I had tried one of those soaps that you mentioned, then Stirling might not be at the top of my list. :001_smile I'm looking for better. Wait! I'm looking for the BEST! :w00t:

You're right about the subjectivity, of course. The good thing is that I'm able to use mass measurements, find the best lather that works for me for any given soap or cream, and repeat the lather in ranking tests and for general use. It all makes lathering very consistent and less artful, mysterious, confusing, or frustrating.

As a technical note, when I used to use a heavier lathering bowl and my 0.1 g resolution scale for mass measurements with a larger capacity to handle the heaver bowl, there was a little "art" in getting a little more precise readings with soap masses as small as they are around 0.8 g to 1.0 g. Lather was generally consistent, but because of the lack of precision in my soap mass measurements, lather was not as consistent as desired and I'd be somewhat thrown off or confused by results occasionally when zeroing in on the optimum. That doesn't happen anymore since I switched to a lightweight lathering bowl in order to use my 0.01 g resolution scale. Without any mass measurements, it would be like the old days when I used to load the brush and add water and get inconsistent lather, certainly not optimum lather.

On deck now is L'Occitane and then Mystic Water. I'm going to revisit both before moving on to something new for me. I'd like to revisit Soap Commander, my first shaving soap, but I don't want to buy a whole big jar again. Eventually, I'll get to something that beats Stirling, I'm sure. :001_smile
 
Hello Grant, another outstanding review of Barrister- Mann Cheshire soap from your hobby of shaving.
I have watched videos of folks using this soap and the lather looks great and there is hardly ever a negative remark towards their soaps. Hope you keep doing reviews like this in the future, there are some who like science in shaving.:detective::cursing:

Thanks, Ron! :thumbup1: I'm going to keep going with this science-in-shaving stuff. :stuart: I know what you're saying about the lack of negative remarks about B&M soap. It gets a lot of praise, and some of that, I think, is based on the excellent packaging and slick containers. The first impression makes you want to really like it. That bias can then shape opinions of how the soap actually performs.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
My way of face lathering is not dependent on the amount of product nor the amount of water. It is scientific only in the sense that the results are consistent as viewed by me. If I try a soap which doesn't give me the results I demand using the method I use, that lather is wiped off, and the soap goes to soap heaven.

I put some water, not a measured amount, on the top of the puck before my shower. After the shower, that water is poured into a smallish copper and tin bowl, and used to dip my brush tips.

Also, before my shower my brush goes in a mug of water to soak. I soak all brushes - boar, badger, or synthetic - for consistency.

After the shower I apply my homemade shaving oil. Then, I shake the water out of the brush and begin loading the brush. I want "a lot" of product on my brush, visibly a lot. After I have a lot on the brush, I turn the puck's container upside down and load the brush some more with the bristles pointing upwards having dipped them into the water just a little bit. This is silly probably but maybe it gets a bit of the soap down into the brush, but not much water at all.

Then I apply the rather dry soap to my face and neck like spackling paste (sorta kinda). I'm shooting for a particular look here.

Throughout the process I'm always willing to revisit the puck and load more product.

When the look I want is achieved, I add water in stages, dipping the tips of the brush, working the water into the paste on my face, dipping again, etc. Again, I am aiming for a particular look - creamy, a little bit foamy, and well hydrated. I always achieve this, or I wipe the stuff off, and use a "good" soap.

I want this same final look with every lathering.

Obviously, this method does not lend itself to your quantitative analysis methodology. Mine is much more artful, and qualitative, but it works very well, and it is not at all dependent on discovery of product to soap ratios or anything like that. I only care about the final look of the lather on my face, and I've found a way to consistently achieve it across the various soaps I use.

I am not advocating my method for anyone else. It works well for me, but it might not work at all well for anyone else.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
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