Badly Designed Razors

[onotoman]

Hi Guys,

I've made a list of the razors I think were badly designed (from a materials or design viewpoint) - you may of course disagree or have your own candidates, these razors may be great to use, but once they start to get a bit long in the tooth...here goes:

Black (aluminium handle) Super Speed and Slim Adjustable - Aluminium reacts when in contact with nickel - the rod inside the handle is nickel plated and the inside of the handle is aluminium, resulting in electrolysis (similar to metal and aluminium panels reacting on Land Rovers and Range Rovers etc) - Result = Seized up razor with white deposits clogging up the mechanism. I've had lots of these sent to me and there's really not much that can be done.

Once the anodising on the handle is worn, the aluminium pits and results in unsightly 'scars'

Blue Tip Super Speed - Similar to the above

Tech and Super Speed with Zinc alloy head - Tech and some earlier Super Speeds - Zinc Alloy is a horrible cheap material and my heart sinks when I see the stuff. The Techs are easy to identify as they have 'Gillette' deeply moulded into the head Top (although some of the models with 'Gillette' shotblasted into the head top are also zinc)

Merkur Razors (Hoffritz and Coles) - Zinc Alloy Cast Head - Same as above. Once pitted, they are impossible to restore

Rotbart Three Piece - Again, all sorts of cast zinc involved, impossible to restore

I have a graveyard (drawer) in my workshop with many of these sad examples inside. I should really give them a decent burial, but as yet, I just can't bring myself to make that final step :-(

 

[Teddyboy]

Hi Guys,

I've made a list of the razors I think were badly designed (from a materials or design viewpoint) - you may of course disagree or have your own candidates, these razors may be great to use, but once they start to get a bit long in the tooth...here goes:

Black (aluminium handle) Super Speed and Slim Adjustable - Aluminium reacts when in contact with nickel - the rod inside the handle is nickel plated and the inside of the handle is aluminium, resulting in electrolysis (similar to metal and aluminium panels reacting on Land Rovers and Range Rovers etc) - Result = Seized up razor with white deposits clogging up the mechanism. I've had lots of these sent to me and there's really not much that can be done.

Once the anodising on the handle is worn, the aluminium pits and results in unsightly 'scars'

Blue Tip Super Speed - Similar to the above

Tech and Super Speed with Zinc alloy head - Tech and some earlier Super Speeds - Zinc Alloy is a horrible cheap material and my heart sinks when I see the stuff. The Techs are easy to identify as they have 'Gillette' deeply moulded into the head Top (although some of the models with 'Gillette' shotblasted into the head top are also zinc)

Merkur Razors (Hoffritz and Coles) - Zinc Alloy Cast Head - Same as above. Once pitted, they are impossible to restore

Rotbart Three Piece - Again, all sorts of cast zinc involved, impossible to restore

I have a graveyard (drawer) in my workshop with many of these sad examples inside. I should really give them a decent burial, but as yet, I just can't bring myself to make that final step :-(

Does the zinc alloy head become pitted independent of the condition of the plating. In other words, if the plating is still present, can the underlying zinc alloy still become pitted? Can pitting be a by-product of stripping off old plating prior to replating?

From a design standpoint, I would add Merkur Futur and Vision for their clunkiness and difficulty to work comfortably in tight spaces.
Also, the ball-end techs from Gillette - how often do you see one without a cracked handle? Not too often.

 

[Foyle]

You forgot Muhle and Edwin Jagger. Yeah, we all hate zinc but most of us don't have much choice. I love my Progress, and hopefully the plating won't wear off. I have a ball end tech, but I'm not sure if the cap on mine is zinc or brass. I'm not sure how to tell since the plating is still intact. I know the handle and the base plate aren't zinc.

 

[onotoman]

Most of the examples of zinc alloy razors I see have blistering showing before the plating is removed - this means that pores in the plating have allowed water and other chemicals through which attacks the zinc alloy over the years.

I use a gentle chemical process to strip the old plating which doesn't harm the brass, copper, zinc or whatever.

This blistering doesn't happen with brass and even if brass is pitted (if on head tops etc) it's straightforward to buff out. The pits in zinc are usually much deeper and usually, by the time they are ground out, the head is not worth saving.

In my view there's no excuse for using zinc alloy (pot metal) other than for cheapness. Merkur could easily cast brass to give that heavy, chunky feel, yes it would cost a little bit more, but I'm sure they could absorb the cost in the price and even use it as a selling point.

Yes, of course, I'd forgotten about the press-fit Gillette Old Types, New Types, Ball Ends etc - again, a little bit of solder rather than pressing a collar into a thin brass tube would have meant no cracked handles.

The Vision is indeed a large piece of zinc alloy

Does the zinc alloy head become pitted independent of the condition of the plating. In other words, if the plating is still present, can the underlying zinc alloy still become pitted? Can pitting be a by-product of stripping off old plating prior to replating?

From a design standpoint, I would add Merkur Futur and Vision for their clunkiness and difficulty to work comfortably in tight spaces.
Also, the ball-end techs from Gillette - how often do you see one without a cracked handle? Not too often.

 

[onotoman]

Yes, I believe the baseplates and Top Plates on the Muhle and EJ (which are manufactured from the same parts) are indeed zinc alloy. Again, Gillette were stamping base plates out of brass 100 years ago. No excuse for the stuff other than saving a few quid in manufacturing costs.

The Chrome Plating on most modern razors is (thankfully) pretty decent quality. Hopefully it'll last the 50 to 60 years that most vintage Gillettes etc have lasted before the plating wears through.

Chrome itself is only applied to a very thin depth (millionths of an inch) but the underlying Nickel plating will protect the zinc.

I've only seen one or two modern Merkurs with blistering of the zinc - this was because of manufacturing defects though.

The only way to tell if your Tech has a zinc head is to weigh it and compare it with the weight of a brass one (the brass one will weigh more) but if your razor is in good order, it doesn't really matter I suppose.

You forgot Muhle and Edwin Jagger. Yeah, we all hate zinc but most of us don't have much choice. I love my Progress, and hopefully the plating won't wear off. I have a ball end tech, but I'm not sure if the cap on mine is zinc or brass. I'm not sure how to tell since the plating is still intact. I know the handle and the base plate aren't zinc.

 

[Rschan]

When I start cleaning a Ebay razor I usually keep it in water with dish washer for 1-2 days or more. As I can remember even after thoroughly cleaning an aristocrat (US 40' Model) is having a white deposit on the end caps when kept in water wish dish washer.
I was so amazed that even after so much cleaning this thing coming out. Initially I thought its Soap gunk . But so much gunk....
and I even posted thread about it.

So that answers my question!!

Are you saying after that white stuff starts to build up the razor becomes unusable?

Is there any remedy to prevent that ? (I applied nail polish to the end caps and haven't seen the stuff since)

I thought all techs are made from brass ( except the once with embossing on the head ) does that effect all techs?

Quite a questionnaire ??

 

[ngai]

I thought all techs are made from brass ( except the once with embossing on the head ) does that effect all techs?

I thought this as well. What year/date code did they start using zinc so I know what to avoid.

 

[Merkur25]

Ill take one of those badly pitted Hoffritz off your hands as well as a Rotbart

 

[Maxime D.]

May I had the Ericsson razor to the list ? Look at this cheap metal : /

 

[Krona Kruiser]

Wonderful and insightful thread. It would be amazing to see a brass Hoffritz/Merkur slant than the pot-metal variety. Another "flaw" in razors were the thin gold plating and sometimes gold wash that was used. That's why we see a lot of 40's Aristocrats with brassing. It's the same thing with the NEW's but they weren't intended to be used for decades on end. That's why they were just gold plated over the base metal than given a pre-nickel coat.
Do you think that plating from the pre WWII years to be superior? I've noticed that OC Aristocrats and NEW standards and the like seem to have better plating. Maybe it was because they were Gillette's "luxury" razors. English Gillettes from the time also seem to have superior plating when it comes to nickel and rhodium.

 

[BBrad]

We were having a discussion last week about the differences between zinc "pot metal" alloys, and other (better) zinc alloys like Zamak and Brass. Brass, of course, contains a high copper content and is the "perfect" alloy for razor production, since it can be cast, machined, bent, formed, can be polished, and plates nicely with nickel.

Zamak, of which all its various exact alloys contain a fixed 4% aluminum, is quite stable, but requires almost 100% purity in its zinc content or else it is just another pot metal.

Pot metals, a catch-all phrase for lower cost zinc-based alloys, are prone to zinc pest due to contamination of the zinc, which causes deterioration of the finished item from the inside out. Hence, the plating can be perfect with nothing underneath the plating but dust!

 

[BBrad]

Wonderful and insightful thread. It would be amazing to see a brass Hoffritz/Merkur slant than the pot-metal variety. Another "flaw" in razors were the thin gold plating and sometimes gold wash that was used. That's why we see a lot of 40's Aristocrats with brassing. It's the same thing with the NEW's but they weren't intended to be used for decades on end. That's why they were just gold plated over the base metal than given a pre-nickel coat.

I wouldn't include the 40's Aristocrat and NEW razors in with Dave's list, since the quality of the razor itself far exceeds the inexpensive "industrial wash" that necessity dictated be used at that time. Time and time again we see Dave take a totally brassed NEW head, polish and plate it properly, and see it shine! Can't do that unless the underlying material is solid. (Or, as my father would say, "you can't polish a turd.")

 

[tacchini]

i have a few differant techs, all a re in great condition bar the one with gillette embossed on the head, with a cheap plastic screw on handle, its a basket case, with the bubbled nickel plate, a piece of junk compared to the old techs.

 

[Krona Kruiser]

i have a few differant techs, all a re in great condition bar the one with gillette embossed on the head, with a cheap plastic screw on handle, its a basket case, with the bubbled nickel plate, a piece of junk compared to the old techs.

There are a handful different techs like the contract Tech that were made out of pot-metal. These are also a pain to replate and if not taken care of gets pitted.

 

[global_dev]

as my father would say, "you can't polish a turd.")

not to go too far OT, but you CAN polish a turd.. mythbusters used style called hikaru dorodango! came out pretty shiny IIRC.
maybe it could be rhodium plated for additional bling

 

[HUF]

"The only way to tell if your Tech has a zinc head is to weigh it and compare it with the weight of a brass one ...".

Any numbers for zinc and brass caps of a ball-end Tech from 50s? Thanks.
I am not really impressed with the thread quality of Techs (both female and male). They are too loose and only a couple of threads work because of a huge chamfer in the handle. The handle is not turned (casting with machined thread).

 

[Krona Kruiser]

The thing is that pot-metals (and it's variants) can be polished and replated, it's done all the time. However, it's a pain if the pot-metal is in bad shape. Usually, when replating, you need to strip (either chemically or manually) the original plating before replating it. The problem lies in the condition that the metal is in. Pot metal is very porous and if it shows pitting, it's difficult to buff out a smooth surface from it and if it's chemically stripped, it can make the pitting worse. Car parts and other materials that are pot-metal usually have a copper and nickel layer before being chrome plated. The condition of the base metal is the most important factor in having an amazing final plating finish. The reason it's difficult for old pot-metal razors to restore is due to their condition (if it's in bad shape or not), prepping process (removing old plating and buffing surface) and size (those little crannies on razors are hard to get to) but it has been and can be done but ultimately, it's a pain in the rear.

 

[StuMcB]

All I can say is onotoman was was responsible for my first vintage Gillette. A replated 67 slim. He's even replated an old fat Tech for me and his work is very, very good. Any UK guys wanting a replate should PM him. If your in the US give krona a call the OC tech I got from him is brillaint.

 

[Krona Kruiser]

Onotoman is the real craftsman in all this, he knows his stuff.

 

[BBrad]

not to go too far OT, but you CAN polish a turd.. mythbusters used style called hikaru dorodango! came out pretty shiny IIRC.
maybe it could be rhodium plated for additional bling

Yes, but inside the shiny dirtball is . . . a dirtball. Like Krona Kruiser said, it all depends on the underlying condition.