Back In The News, a Sig P320

[Rob72]

I’m definitely stumped. The internal safeguards on all striker fired pistols are of such a simple and basic ingenious design, I just can’t wrap my head around it and where or how that even a design flaw could by pass 3 separate internal safeguards?

There are only a few options. I'm only familiar with the 320 by looking at pics. The first thing that is evident is a fairly complex striker assembly. For any striker weapon to fail, it has to be a broken/bent trigger engagement surface, a bent/sloped striker catch, or a combination.

The Sig mechanism has more components and therefore more potential for tolerance stacking, but I am still always suspicious of improper handling, first and foremost. It may seem harsh, but IMO if you cannot prove you didn't do it- you did it.

 

[Kentos]

Cops carry guns, so they are “gun experts” according to these reports and so we need to believe them. Cops also drive cars and use computers in their work. Are they car and computer experts too? Can they diagnose a faulty ABS system that caused them to crash?
Can they change out mother boards and reconfigure operating systems? They also train in hand to hand tactics. Are they martial arts experts too?
I know a few officers who regard firearms as just another facet of their jobs and are not firearms experts by their own admission.

To say the p320 is faulty cause an officer “said so” is kinda wonky. IMO.

 

[OkieStubble]

You know when you see an “expert?” They will never say they are an “expert.”

No such thing as an expert. Or BBS.

 

[simon1]

You know when you see an “expert?” They will never say they are an “expert.”

No such thing as an expert. Or BBS.

Hey...I'm an expert.

Of what I don't know yet.

 

[OkieStubble]

Hey...I'm an expert.

Of what I don't know yet.

Where is that poop emoji?

 

[ChiefHA]

In the fire service we used to say there were two requirements to be an "expert". 100 miles from home and wear a tie.........

 

[Intrigued]

Where is that poop emoji?

You'll have to gather your own....

 

[OkieStubble]

You'll have to gather your own....

Lol’d.

 

[Curly Straight]

I'm with you on this. Earlier models of the P320 were discharging when being dropped from hip height, but it was when the pistol had to exactly hit the ground on the very backside portion of the pistol, in order to get it to misfire. Sig issued a recall and took care of those who sent their pistols back in and assembly line production was fixed. That was years ago.

So this dude either,

1. got an older model that wasn't fixed during the recall, and/or

2. dropped it exactly on the back of the slide, and/or

3. Is BS'ing.

It's been years since the recall, surely we would have heard more then just his?

This is close, but not exactly true. The P320 “firing when dropped” was only after an “individual” developed a fixture to hold a P320 at exactly a negative 30-degree angle then drop it specifically on the beavertail from a height of five feet. I’m tall but my hips aren’t five feet off the ground.

Secondly, in order to discharge as this “individual” contended, it had to be dropped on bare concrete, not the rubber mat of a specific durometer-rating covering bare concrete, (as required by SAAMI, DOJ, and several other entities providing oversight on the safety of handgun manufacturing).

Thirdly, SIG Sauer never issued a recall. It was determined by SIG Sauer, their lawyers, and the independent bodies noted above that the “drop test” did not comply with the industry standards, which never exceed “1-meter, in five different planes, on a specific material which covers bare concrete”. SIG did offer, and still does, a “voluntary upgrade” on the trigger.

In all other regards, I agree with the many postings here that this is BS, and designed to draw attention to the poster, without validation as to the true reason it occurred. I’d bet my next paycheck he ND’d when he reholstered due to Operator Headspace Gap.

Lastly, SIG has never paid out $10,000,00 in a settlement involving the P320 and if anyone cares to go back to 1985 and dig a bit deeper, they might find another plastic, striker-fired pistol company who paid a bunch of money out for ND’s resulting in injury or death here in the U.S..

Curly Out

 

[nortac]

Love "Operator Headspace Gap"!

 

[Bhugo]

If the trigger is a shorter and lighter pull than other striker fired pistols, which I am just inferring from this thread, maybe the trigger is being manipulated in holster somehow in a manner that would not cause a Glock or other such gun to fire that has a longer/heavier trigger pull. Maybe someone should look at the holsters people are using with the Sig in question? Just a casual observation. Full disclosure, I am an expert, in only hearing what I want to hear, according to my wife…

 

[ctr]

Love "Operator Headspace Gap"!

Short between the sets.

 

[ctr]

If the trigger is a shorter and lighter pull than other striker fired pistols, which I am just inferring from this thread, maybe the trigger is being manipulated in holster somehow in a manner that would not cause a Glock or other such gun to fire that has a longer/heavier trigger pull. Maybe someone should look at the holsters people are using with the Sig in question? Just a casual observation. Full disclosure, I am an expert, in only hearing what I want to hear, according to my wife…

Not possible for a trigger to engage in a kydex holster that is in good working order. Most AD holster incidents involve a finger, a piece of clothing, or a snap strap with leather that I am aware if.

 

[OkieStubble]

This is close, but not exactly true. The P320 “firing when dropped” was only after an “individual” developed a fixture to hold a P320 at exactly a negative 30-degree angle then drop it specifically on the beavertail from a height of five feet. I’m tall but my hips aren’t five feet off the ground.

Secondly, in order to discharge as this “individual” contended, it had to be dropped on bare concrete, not the rubber mat of a specific durometer-rating covering bare concrete, (as required by SAAMI, DOJ, and several other entities providing oversight on the safety of handgun manufacturing).

Thirdly, SIG Sauer never issued a recall. It was determined by SIG Sauer, their lawyers, and the independent bodies noted above that the “drop test” did not comply with the industry standards, which never exceed “1-meter, in five different planes, on a specific material which covers bare concrete”. SIG did offer, and still does, a “voluntary upgrade” on the trigger.

In all other regards, I agree with the many postings here that this is BS, and designed to draw attention to the poster, without validation as to the true reason it occurred. I’d bet my next paycheck he ND’d when he reholstered due to Operator Headspace Gap.

Lastly, SIG has never paid out $10,000,00 in a settlement involving the P320 and if anyone cares to go back to 1985 and dig a bit deeper, they might find another plastic, striker-fired pistol company who paid a bunch of money out for ND’s resulting in injury or death here in the U.S..

Curly Out

Lol’d @ ‘operator head space gap.’

 

[OkieStubble]

If the trigger is a shorter and lighter pull than other striker fired pistols, which I am just inferring from this thread, maybe the trigger is being manipulated in holster somehow in a manner that would not cause a Glock or other such gun to fire that has a longer/heavier trigger pull. Maybe someone should look at the holsters people are using with the Sig in question? Just a casual observation. Full disclosure, I am an expert, in only hearing what I want to hear, according to my wife…

My selective hearing, never disappoints.

 

[OkieStubble]

Not possible for a trigger to engage in a kydex holster that is in good working order. Most AD holster incidents involve a finger, a piece of clothing, or a snap strap with leather that I am aware if.

If the Sig’s trigger feels much lighter and different then a Glock trigger, that could just mean, the dude in the video who shot himself, probably didn’t have any better trigger finger discipline with his Glocks then he did with his Sig P320.

However, the stiff, spongy travel of a Glock trigger just allowed him to get away with it; where the easier manipulation of the better Sig trigger didn’t allow him the same room for the same amount of complacency he got used to with a Glock?

 

[Curly Straight]

Great comments here! Most everyone is applying logic to what has become a click-bait roller coaster full of misinformation elsewhere on the Interwebs!

A couple of things I failed to mention in my original post on this topic:

1. As OkieStubble noted, the trigger in the P320 might “appear to feel” lighter than the Glock or any other striker-fired pistol. He’s correct; it does “feel lighter” for most people. Its engineering geometry contributes to that perception, particularly with the flat trigger installed. However, like every other quality pistol, it breaks from the factory between 5.5 and 6.5lbs, on average. On lesser quality pistols or those with the NYPD trigger or similar lawyer-trigger installed, you will get a heavier pull-weight to trip the sear and release the striker. But on average, you will find most quality S/A or striker-fired pistols having trigger pull weights between 4.0 and 6.0 pounds.

2. When this “issue” was created by an “individual”, the P320 DID NOT discharge as a result of a flaw in engineering, and it did not break internally resulting in an accidental discharge; it functioned exactly as designed.

Please allow me to explain….”an object in motion remains in motion at constant speed and in a straight line unless acted on by an unbalanced force”. The P320 trigger remained in motion through inertia due to its mass, just as though someone was pulling the trigger, (specifically the mass of the trigger itself - not the pull-weight required to release the sear). The resulting “voluntary upgrade” offered by SIG merely replaced the trigger with one having less mass. It DID NOT alter the weight required to release the sear.

Though I remain comfortable in my reference to “Operator Headspace Gap” as the most likely culprit here, one might consider certain kydex holsters utilizing locking mechanisms protruding inside the trigger guard as potentially hazardous when combined with loose clothing, jacket pulls/zippers, or other potential obstructions being combined with “Operator Headspace Gap”. This situation could have deleterious results, particularly for those who choose appendix-carry. As you all know, there’s some pretty important stuff in that region, not to mention a couple of really big arteries.

Curly Out