ATT and attention to detail

[ruckin]

First let me state that I am not calling Stan's attention to detail into question. He has taken the time to answer my stupid questions and he makes great razors (imho)

A few days ago I had the worst shave ever (been DE shaving since May so I am relatively new) and once the bleeding stopped I was kind of like .... ***!

Here is what I discovered... I shave in the morning, actually it is before morning I get up about a quarter to five hop in the shower and then shave. Needless to say I am not at my fully alert and awake state that I would be later in the day. I had a shave a couple of days ago that involved alot of blood. No problem when I bought my initial shaving stuff in May I also ordered a styptic pencil all I had to do now was find it. I stop the bleeding get dressed, have coffee and run off to work wondering why this shave went so wrong... Well the next day was almost as bad and I was noticing the blade was aligned funny in the razor. I guess at this point I should say that I disassemble the razor and rinse and dry everything and then assemble it again for the next day so I have an opportunity to mess the assembly every day.

I noticed that the small pins on the top plate of the ATT razor match up with a skinny part of the opening in a DE blade. But this particular blade the gap was quite a bit wider than the pin so the angle with respect to the top plate and the angle of the blade could vary quite a bit. I grabbed my last blade of that brand and put in on the top plate and noticed the gap was tight against the pin. Hmmm I wonder if I was sloppy in assembling the razor while half asleep or if the particular blade just had a larger gap at that point.

I wonder if the blade itself was messed up or if in my sleepy coffee deprived stupor I was sloppy in my assembly and the pin "nipped" off a bit of the blade and made that one sloppy (blade angle less than ideal)? I assume it is the latter.

Has anyone seen this before?

thanks
Ruckin

.ps Maybe I should shave after I have coffee

 

[davidsilva]

I haven't had this exact experience, but once I did assemble the razor with one of the index pins misplaced. The blade started creaking as I tightened down the handle. I am sure I would have drawn blood if I used it. I disassembled and saw what happened.

Only rarely do I have the blade not stay on the pins as I assemble the head. In your case, I fault the blade for sloppy tolerance in manufacturing.

Re: coffee. I wake up, and within a minute the thought of shaving comes to mind and the next thing I know I am wide awake and prepping my gear in the bathroom. I must really like shaving. I used to be slow to wake up - no more...

 

[poikkeus]

I know exactly what you're talking about. I mentioned the same to Stan via email, but he said I was the first person to mention it.

When I use the H2 base plate on my open comb. I start off with the cap, drop my blade in, and then put the base plate on top like making a sandwich; but sometimes, when I drop the blade in, the two "pins" don't quite connect, and the the razor can swivel, exposing large amounts of blade.

I make sure this doesn't happen with my ATT. But the way other razors (like Gillette) are designed, the blades lock into place automatically. There's no "swivel." In any case, it's probably a good idea to shave after some kind of stimulant. Styptic can't fix everything.

 

[Taborcarn]

It depends on the brand of blade. With Personnas, Polsilvers, Feathers and GSBs they fit perfectly, no swivel at all. With the Kais I've tried the holes were different sizes and took some work to align properly.

 

[poikkeus]

It depends on the brand of blade. With Personnas, Polsilvers, Feathers and GSBs they fit perfectly, no swivel at all. With the Kais I've tried the holes were different sizes and took some work to align properly.

I find that there's no problem with fit if you're using the ATT solid bar base plate; the blade fits like a glove every time. However, with an open comb plate, there's only two stainless steel pins to guide a blade to the proper seating position; if the two pins don't slip firmly over the blade, the blade will swivel. At least that's my experience with GSB, Personna Lab, and Feather.




Figure 1 shows what an ATT razor might look like if the cap and handle are assembled, but the pins aren't seated properly.




Figure 2 shows the ATT cap with two improperly seated pins. Swiveling will happen every time, if the pins are misaligned.




Figure 3 shows the ATT cap with two properly seated pins. As long as the pins are seated, blade won't swivel.


But I'm not sure how much of an issue this is; just make sure the blade is properly seated on the steel pins when you're putting in a blade. There will be a soft "snap" sound to confirm the blade is seated properly.

 

[Taborcarn]

Ah yes, I use my left hand to hold the blade side tabs in place so the the pins stay centered while screwing the head together. But I meant with the Kai I've observed that there's a little extra room around the pins so it's not as secure a fit.

 

[robk]

kind of like squirting preparation-h on your toothbrush. I look before I put the toothbrush in my mouth or the blade to my face.

re the R2, when I misalign mine, I can feel it being off (and hear it, too) as I am tightening the handle. once you know that feeling, you will recognize anytime your alignment is out of whack. I still look after I'm done tightening.

 

[shawnsel]

View attachment 510595

Figure 3 shows the ATT cap with two properly seated pins. As long as the pins are seated, blade won't swivel.

Nice pictures ... thanks for taking these!

On "Figure 3", I hold the top cap with thumb and fingers of my left hand, and place the blade on it as pictured, but then push down with my right hand around the threaded post. The blade has a curve at this point, and by holding the blade ends by the sides (while also holding the cap) with my thumb and fingers, I can keep the blade curved and solidly on the centering pins with just the one hand. I then drop the baseplate on top ... without letting my fingers touch the baseplate. I then screw the handle on straight up and down.

I don't know if this is any different than what others do, but I use a 10 inch 8X magnifying mirror for most of my shaving ... and I use it to check the blade alignment after screwing it together. With practice I've learned to get it pretty much microscopically precisely aligned, usually on the first try.

But yes, I have definitely had the blade pop out of the centering pins when putting it together (as you've demonstrated in your "Figure 2"). It won't shave well like that I'm sure.

When putting it on correctly, the blade is exactly aligned with the top cap (although I have never tried a Kai blade mentioned above). However, probably to help prevent water from being trapped in the baseplate, the centering holes in the baseplates are a little larger than the top cap's centering pins. There is a little play there (easily seen with my 8x mirror). But again, with a little practice I've learned to easily get the baseplate precisely aligned as well.


Cheers!
Shawn

 

[alaskazimm]

Nice pictures ... thanks for taking these!

On "Figure 3", I hold the top cap with thumb and fingers of my left hand, and place the blade on it as pictured, but then push down with my right hand around the threaded post. The blade has a curve at this point, and by holding the blade ends by the sides (while also holding the cap) with my thumb and fingers, I can keep the blade curved and solidly on the centering pins with just the one hand. I then drop the baseplate on top ... without letting my fingers touch the baseplate. I then screw the handle on straight up and down.

Shawn

This is exactly what i do as well. Since doing it this way, I haven't had any problems with blades being misaligned.

 

[poikkeus]

The explanation is very clear, and conforms with my experience, too.

That said, it is possible to twist the ATT open comb razor tight and end up with a misaligned blade; just look at Figures 1 and 2. You just have to be aware of it, and make sure it doesn't happen.

But with other razors (like the Muhle R41, or Gillette NEW), a misaligned blade can't happen. You drop the blade in, screw the razor closed - and that's it.

Despite this one issue, I still prefer the weight, closeness, versatility, and workmanship of the ATT razor. It's practically the only razor I use anymore.

 

[shawnsel]

Despite this one issue, I still prefer the weight, closeness, versatility, and workmanship of the ATT razor. It's practically the only razor I use anymore.

+1

Also, while the thin-centering-pin design does probably require a bit of wiggle room to prevent capillary action from holding water inside the baseplate ... I suspect the design's main advantage is that it likely minimizes the suppression of the blade's audible feedback. For those of us who gauge the blade angle through the sound of shaving ... it's a beneficial trade off. I can hear easily hear my ATT razor over my bathroom fan.

Cheers,
Shawn

 

[DrAwkward]

I have heard one other person complain about the small pins on the ATT. I suppose it is possible to tighten the head with the blade twisted or cockeyed. Never have I experienced that problem. Moreover, I like the fact that if you can manage to put your blade on the pins (not a big challenge, in my opinion), then the blade is always perfectly aligned left to right. I have several razors that must be closely inspected to see if there is a bit more blade exposed on one side or the other.
Not with the ATT. Always perfect. Never do I have to remove the top cap and try to adjust the blade to avoid unintended mild-side, wild-side blade alignment problem. Fool proof.

 

[wagstaff]

I've never used Kai blades, so don't know if the cut out section where the pins fit is wider than other DE blades. If so, then those are not the blades for ATT razors.

 

[watchiekong]

…..On "Figure 3", I hold the top cap with thumb and fingers of my left hand, and place the blade on it as pictured, but then push down with my right hand around the threaded post. The blade has a curve at this point, and by holding the blade ends by the sides (while also holding the cap) with my thumb and fingers, I can keep the blade curved and solidly on the centering pins with just the one hand. I then drop the baseplate on top ... without letting my fingers touch the baseplate. I then screw the handle on straight up and down...

Shawn

+1
Same here. It's exactly how I load my blades (Polsilvers, GSB, Astras, and Feathers) in my ATT.

 

[Haegar]

Carts would solve the problem.

 

[sixpointone]

I appreciate this thread, as it is most informative and will help ensure that I load my blades properly and safely.

 

[shawnsel]

Carts would solve the problem.

Haeger, has anyone ever called you "grumpy"?

 

[Nuke]

I appreciate this thread, as it is most informative and will help ensure that I load my blades properly and safely.

+1 I'll make sure I load my blades properly too.

 

[ruckin]

I figured I should report back my findings... I disassemble, rinse and flip the blade every after I shave so I have a chance of messing this up once a day. What I discovered is that you take the blade like it is in picture 2 (well maybe not twisted quite that much), put the base plate on nice and square and crank the handle on it will nibble a little bit off the blade I guess on Monday I didn't notice the angle of the blade was not right because I was trying to stop the bleeding.

On the second day I noticed I could not line up everything so I put the blade in my weber and posted this thread. I have been using the same blade and my weber all week while the skin grew back. I am fine now and even pulled out my straight this morning. On Monday I will put in the last Wilkinson blade in my R2 and carefully seat the base plate and most likely have great shaves all week.

Bottom line it was a DSU (Dumb Stupid User) error that damaged the blade and caused the alignment to be off. I was able to satisfy my frugal heritage by putting the malformed blade in my less aggressive razor and get reasonable shave so in reality nothing much was lost. I am looking forward to experimenting with the other base plates to see which ones I like with which blades... I just need to pay a bit more attention when putting the razor back together.

Hopefully, I can prevent someone else from making the same mistake that I did. Make sure it looks like figure 3 before you put on the base plate and tighten it up. Also I would like to thank poikkeus for jumping in with pictures that described the issue perfectly. I am a bit photo challenged and he makes this thread 1000% more useful.

Ruckin.

 

[poikkeus]

The ATT open comb razor is so good overall, and clearly has quality written all over it, so avoiding potential cuts only works to the user's benefit. Taborcarn's explanation is exactly what I do:

...I use my left hand to hold the blade side tabs in place so the the pins stay centered while screwing the head together.

The ATT open comb razor isn't dummy-proof (like Gillette, or Muhle, etc.), but loading the blade the right way becomes second nature once you center the pins.