Atheists please

[LinuxMintyFresh]

So I think that this might be a controversial topic, but I figure that I see enough comments referring to "church," (e.g. "I was shaving for church the other day..." "this guy I go to church with and I were talking and...") and other god related statements, that this kind of topic must be on peoples minds at least a little. I was hoping that we might start a thread on Atheist oriented resources and information. I don't want this to be an inflammatory thread at all, and if you happen to have a certain belief in a god/s, then please move on and allow this thread to continue unmolested as it is not meant to be an anti-anything thread as much as a pro thought thread.

Having said that, as a first thought, does anybody else watch The Atheist Experience either live or on Youtube? It's an Austin, Texas based public access television show with some very intelligent hosts and thought provoking commentary. They've been running the show out of somebody's home for the past few months, because the local station has been doing renovating or something, but the show is still pretty darned good. I especially like Matt Dillahunty, and his methodology to confronting questions and arguments.

As a second aside if you haven't seen the show, maybe just give a brief intro to yourself and where you stand as far as theism, atheism, agnosticism, deism, pantheism, etc. Or other topics you think pertinent. Thanks guys and gals, I hope this is a fun thread!

 

[Obsessed]

So I think that this might be a controversial topic . . .I don't want this to be an inflammatory thread at all. . .I hope this is a fun thread!

All I can say is



OMG!

 

[mdunn]

These threads have a habbit of getting out of control

If youre in this thread though, one assumes youre interested in this kind of discussion. Theres an Australian show, Q&A, it had a religion episode recently with some interesting points from all sides (including some gold from superatheist Christopher Hitchens), its worth watching.

Episode Here

 

[fleshdunce]

Athiesm is an interesting belief I think because many people seem to think of it as the opposite to having belief in a God or many Gods. I'd submit to you that it is much more similar then you think as there is no way to prove the existence of a higher being either way so to say definitively that there is no higher being whatsoever takes as much faith as it does to say that a higher being does certainty exist.

That said, I find myself somewhere in the middle. I am open to the possibility of a God or even Gods of some sort existing, but I do not know the who/what/how of the whole thing, but I like to think that if you live a decent life and don't go around trying to hurt and stomp on others you are doing just fine and it should be good enough for whoever may or may not be up there.

I studied religion in college a bit, did a minor in it, and find religion pretty fascinating. It has such a great impact on so many lives throughout the world so I think it is important to know something about the variety of beliefs throughout the world. After studying Western and Eastern religions though I'll tell ya that they have much more in common than they do different.

I have a Kurt Vonnegut quote that I have been using for years that gives a good impression of my feelings: "A purpose of human life, no matter who is controlling it, is to love whoever is around to be loved."

Stick with that and you are a good person, IMO.

 

[mdunn]

Athiesm is an interesting belief I think because many people seem to think of it as the opposite to having belief in a God or many Gods. I'd submit to you that it is much more similar then you think as there is no way to prove the existence of a higher being either way so to say definitively that there is no higher being whatsoever takes as much faith as it does to say that a higher being does certainty exist.

you cant prove that theres no such thing as a unicorn. You can say it hasnt been observed, but theres no way to prove it doesnt exist. Would you say you need as much faith to not believe in a unicorn as to believe in it?

Of course not - I think that youve simplified athiesm overmuch. Athiesm (in my understanding) is not that there is no possiblility whatsoever of a god, but that there is no evidence whatsoever of a god, and therefore no justification in worship. It takes no leap of faith for an individual to compare the evidence on both sides and decide that one side has none.

If Zeus or whoever arrived tomorrow then I think the atheists would re-evaluate the evidence presented to them, and therefore go burn goats to create odours pleasing to him.

 

[Macion grey]

I'm an Athiest. Hooray for logic over zeal.




































Calm down, calm down, just an Aussie giving a bit of a rib.

(I am still an Atheist)

 

[SRock]

Gentlemen, I'm going to chime in merely in an effort to preempt the wrong perspective about this particular thread.

If you are a believer (in any religion, faith, group etc.) and/or are offended by the prospect of an Atheist discussion I will urge you to simply avoid this particular thread.

If you are an Atheist I urge you to stay on topic and not degrade any religion or the people who practice it. The very premise of the question(s) posed may make it difficult to do.

Keep it friendly and on target. I don't want to be forced to remove this thread.

 

[chainfire]

I like Scott Adam's book God Debris. I know it's from the Dilbert guy, but he didn't write it to be funny, and I found it thought provoking, a fairly easy read and it's downloadable for free here.

If I remember correctly, the basic premise is that "God" destroyed himself to answer the only question an omnipotent being could have...What happens to an immortal being when it dies? We in turn are his resulting debris trying to relearn itself - thus the many religions that have come and gone throughout history, etc.

I don't know if that makes me an athiest - more agnostic I guess? Either way, I have to admit I find his idea far more intresting than some of the more 'formal' religions.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I am a believer. Not the fundamentalist, bible thumping, closed minded sort.
More of a curious, questioning, doubting, and searching type of believer.
For those who take the time to search and question, there is plenty of evidence to consider. The great theological minds such as St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine offer amazing insight into the reasons for belief. In the realm of science there are also those who propose intriguing arguments for the existence of God. For instance, consider the Anthropic Principle, which proposes that the very fact that human beings are here and able to observe and contemplate the universe is the result of a finely tuned system that had a beginning and contained physical laws and relationships that could only have resulted in the eventual emergence of human life. Such a universe would not be a random collection of events and forces as science once thought but rather a finely tuned system that was set into motion by an intelligent designer.

I hope that this thread does not deteriorate into an "I'm right and you are wrong" wasteland. It could be an interesting discussion if we participate with respect and open-mindedness.

 

[mdunn]

I appreceate the post Rich.

I disagree however, that the great works of aquinas et al could be considered evidence. I would consider them theories, very interesting, and possibly correct theories, but theories nonetheless. Evidence I would call something measurable and repeatable.

I like the theory that this entire world is a simulation, and the reason all the laws of physics are so finely tuned etc is that its a computer program.

 

[the beav]

I don't seen any difference between this thread and the one on Masonry a few months ago, so it should go OK.

 

[theologist]

I don't seen any difference between this thread and the one on Masonry a few months ago, so it should go OK.

You may be right.

It is a little sad that belief in a men's fraternal and belief in a Supreme Being are on a par, though!

 

[pastafarian]

So I think that this might be a controversial topic, but I figure that I see enough comments referring to "church," (e.g. "I was shaving for church the other day..." "this guy I go to church with and I were talking and...") and other god related statements, that this kind of topic must be on peoples minds at least a little. I was hoping that we might start a thread on Atheist oriented resources and information. I don't want this to be an inflammatory thread at all, and if you happen to have a certain belief in a god/s, then please move on and allow this thread to continue unmolested as it is not meant to be an anti-anything thread as much as a pro thought thread.

Having said that, as a first thought, does anybody else watch The Atheist Experience either live or on Youtube? It's an Austin, Texas based public access television show with some very intelligent hosts and thought provoking commentary. They've been running the show out of somebody's home for the past few months, because the local station has been doing renovating or something, but the show is still pretty darned good. I especially like Matt Dillahunty, and his methodology to confronting questions and arguments.

As a second aside if you haven't seen the show, maybe just give a brief intro to yourself and where you stand as far as theism, atheism, agnosticism, deism, pantheism, etc. Or other topics you think pertinent. Thanks guys and gals, I hope this is a fun thread!

Well, I feel that most of the statements that you describe are actually cultural. Going to church or other place of worship is an aspect of culture that, as an atheist, I do not experience but that I can easily relate as I have experienced it in the past. I have only seen what I would describe as genuinely god-related subjects mentioned here a couple of times. The only time it made me uncomfortable was when a long time member had to go to hospital and a thread was set up asking for prayers, making me seem like one of the only members unable to feel as if I was helping.

I do sometimes watch The Atheist Experience on youtube, Matt Dillahunty does seem to have a very good approach to answering questions and an ability to explain his ideas well.

I don't know if I have any atheist resources as such. I am at the moment beginning to read the works of people like AC Grayling. Having said that, a couple of the youtube channels I subscribe to sometimes deal with atheist themes. For example, I feel that the channel 'Theramin Trees' is worth a look.

Finally, you ask for a brief introduction of ourselves and our views on religion. Well, I was raised nominally an anglican christian but my upbringing was actually fairly non-religious in terms of my home environment. However, both my primary and secondary schools had some religious aspects. I wondered about religion from an early age, and I remember doubting the reason for our prayers that we were made to perform in a group in primary school, so my questions started at a young age. During the early years of my secondary school I thought about the issue more, finally deciding just to call myself agnostic as a way to contain all of my questions and lack of belief. Then, finally, I realized that this approach was disingenuous and the only way to accurately describe my feelings was atheism, a label I had tried to avoid due to the extremist connotations I felt it had. It may be worth me saying that I define atheism as the lack of belief in supernatural agents.

 

[ouch]

Since I was a child, what always troubled me about religion is how quick proponents of a particular faith are to delegitimze any other expression. Adherents to the teachings of any one faith are often the first to deny the validity of another, and often with a fervor greater than that which can be mustered by any atheist. Atheists aren't kidding when they say they simply believe in one less god than a believer.

 

[The Knize]

all i can say is



omg!

+1!

 

[tlanning]

Never met anyone who didn't have faith in intense combat. NOW, they may have been like Tyler Perry's Medea: "I said I'd go by the church and I did, see, there it is".

 

[fleshdunce]

you cant prove that theres no such thing as a unicorn. You can say it hasnt been observed, but theres no way to prove it doesnt exist. Would you say you need as much faith to not believe in a unicorn as to believe in it?

Of course not - I think that youve simplified athiesm overmuch. Athiesm (in my understanding) is not that there is no possiblility whatsoever of a god, but that there is no evidence whatsoever of a god, and therefore no justification in worship. It takes no leap of faith for an individual to compare the evidence on both sides and decide that one side has none.

If Zeus or whoever arrived tomorrow then I think the atheists would re-evaluate the evidence presented to them, and therefore go burn goats to create odours pleasing to him.

You are correct, I did simplify it and you did as well. There are different sorts of beliefs in Atheism just as there are different sects in each religion. If we were to really go into great detail and break these down there are MANY and perhaps never ending variations on different atheistic sects/beliefs/etc. Atheism, in its pure form, however is an unwavering belief that no supreme being, most often the western version of God, exists.

As for the unicorn, I don't find your comparison to be valid as a unicorn would exist on this planet and many would argue that you couldn't stumble upon God running across a meadow somewhere as you could a unicorn if they did indeed exist. A unicorn would be a creature on this planet, somewhere on land, which would make it much more likely for someone to have seen it, but they haven't. So if you ask me it doesn't take any leap of faith to believe that Unicorns do not exist here on Earth, but since there is either no way to know if a supreme being exists (or we don't know of a way yet) it takes much greater faith to say for certain that such a being doesn't exist.

If you look at Christianity it doesn't tell you that you would ever be able to see God, here, on this planet, which would give the justification for as to why there is no concrete or physical evidence of any sort.

From what you are telling me, I would say you seem to prescribe to something that is more akin to agnostic beliefs in which you believe there is no knowable evidence of a supreme being and therefore feel that there is no need to worship any God as such. Check it out.

 

[pastafarian]

Never met anyone who didn't have faith in intense combat.

Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers

Anyway, the original post asked for Atheist orientated resources. I recently found this fairly long but very good video on youtube by the user QualiaSoup:
[YOUTUBE]5wV_REEdvxo[/YOUTUBE]
This really sums up my views on belief very well, especially the part about the burden of proof. I really don't mind what people believe, but if you try to impose your views on me or others then they should be supported by evidence.

 

[PatrioticWhisky]

I have ignored all posts in the topic.

ALL HAIL THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!

 

[ginantonix]

Very glad to see this forum hasn't yet degenerated, but has stayed respectful and reasoned.

I have always considered myself a quiet atheist, in that I don't go around wearing it on my shoulder. More of a Canadian thing, really; I have found that discussions of religion in public generally make most of us uncomfortable, definitely does for me. Politicians who openly discuss religious beliefs generally don't do very well, in contrast to some other countries where it almost seems to be essential for public office. (Alberta notwithstanding.)

I have no issue with anyone holding whatever religious beliefs they choose, as long as they don't try to pressure me to adopt them. Likewise, I would never try to pressure anyone else to change their deeply held beliefs. Kind of my own personal 'golden rule.' Where we have an issue, however, is if a religious belief makes someone dispute a directly observed and demonstrable scientific fact.