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Artisan rant

Not to mention the nice things with decimal points, coma and date notations. If you ever worked with recipes or formulas you can get real funny sometimes dangerous problems.
 

Chandu

I Waxed The Badger.
I’m with you on a lot of your post but shipping a product from the US to some other country always costs. Best to combine several items in one order.

As to croap. I think I’ve purchased my last croap. At least any artisan ones the lack a preservative to stop them from becoming a Petri dish. The EU responsibly requires soap makers to submit samples to be tested for supporting bacterial growth

Those soft floppy synthetic brushes many are fond of probably work better with croaps and may be another factor in the popularity of croaps but I think mostly no artisan wants to sit on an inventory of soap waiting for it to dry down. They can’t afford that due to material and opportunity costs.

All in all, good rant!
 
Okay so many of you will not agree with me and many will hate me but I just have to share a few of my thoughts about artisan soap makers with the world. Please note that everything written here are MY PERSONAL observations, thoughts, issiues, etc, I wish no one no harm and plese feel free to agree od dissagree.

So in the past few years I noticed a big shift in the soap talk here on the forum. When I started out, and it is about 6-7 years ago, maybe bit more, most soap talk was centered mostly around tripple milled pucks from old English makers (T&H, D.R. Harris, TOBS,...) and a few other wet shaving staples as Williams, Cella, Arko, Palmolive, Proraso, Tabac and so on. Croaps were pretty unpopular here, general consensus (as far as I was able to detect from posts, I could be wrong) was to either make a puck or cream, not some crossover. And in past 5 years...

CROAPS...there is croaps everywhere. And we all know what it means to have soapy product saturated with water, specially tallow based. Leave it out too long ant it goes RANCID! Now take someone like me. I shave 2-3 times a week, mostly 2. I don't like to 3017 soaps, because I get bored and always have 3-4 in rotation. I will use some and throw the rest away which adds up cost pretty f**** fast. (you will understand degree of my frustration later)

Another thing are scents. We have gazilion artisans, with multiple bases that come in array of scents that range from unscented sensitive skin friendly formula to insane scent formulations where only thing missing is unicorn farts. Scents are becoming so bizarre that no one can image what will it smell like when you open the tub. I read a lot of people here that had problems with this. Either scent was too offensive to them or they got nasty reaction. (Out of everything this irritates me the least)

After shave feel of soap has also become greatly popular. And I am sorry but I just can't wrap my head around the idea that soap should (according to some people):
- have pleasant scent
- be easy to load (3 swirls on soap tops, I guess 95% of forum has arthritis or carpal tunnel)
- be easy to lather (again arthritis/carpal tunnel)
- have cushion of a goose feather pillow
- be slick as snail snot
- protective to a degree you can get shot in the face with 12gauge shotgun point blank range
- condition your face in the same way as if you put on phoenix tears AS balm

And finally the thing that irritates me more than Derby blade on shave 25 in old vesion of R41...PRICE!!! Cheapest artisan soaps are hard pucks from RR for 5-6$, I can get behind that (but not anymore when you add shipping. Other croaps are like 15$ up to 50$ per tub that last for like 60 shaves and I can get much more shaves out of cheaper soap locally (and we are talking the business here like Tabac and other old makers with superb performance). I cannot justify to myself that kind of expense for a soap that might not be slick enough or burn my face of with fragrance. And when you take into account that Americans just LOVE shipping costs and those rates are 25$!!!!!! I can get products from all round the world for shipping that is less than 10$! Why this irritates me? To lower shipping cost to be normal per unit (like 5$/soap) I need to buy at least 5 soaps and I just can't have that kind of volume of soaps laying around.

And when you put all of this together what also pulls my nerve is when some snobby Simpson chubby wielding A**** says one soap is not good enough for not moisturizing as AS balm? Say "not good enough for me" and please do not generalize. Also keep in mind we are talking about SOAPS not BALMS here. Soap should not dry your face to the point when you think your skin shrunk 3 sizes but also no need for a soap to be hydrating. As said, we have balms an moisturizers for that.

Anywys this is my rant about artisans/US shipping rates/forum snobs. Note again those are my PERSONAL views and this is my outlet to vent not to attack anybody specifically.
I'm one of those fickle US consumers who love choices and demand variety!! And I live in a rural state where I need nearly all shaving supplies shipped to me. Having been a cartridge shaver for most of my life, I'm blown away by the array of wet shaving products that are available today. Most of the time I'm careful with my money, but every now and again, I'll splurge with a seemingly frivolous purchase (being gainfully employed, I figure that it's my money, my choice). I actually really enjoy all of the PERSONAL views, opinions, and observations of my fellow B&B'ers. Sometimes I agree, and other times I recognize that that is their PERSONAL opinion. I think it's great having such a diverse group!!
 
True enough. Internally a lot of American companies use the metric system since these standards are used all over the world.

However justified, a system of dual units is a pain. Everything has to be labelled using both units, signs, gauges, etc. and it's necessary to convert back and forth if you work with both units. That could be done away with, but no, the US is a special case for some reason.

This is an instance of size matters. We have states bigger than some Western European countries. That means a huge internal market. One of the reason US metrification fails is the international sales argument mostly doesn't apply. Where it does, like soft drinks and engines, you find metric in use. So it is we buy liter and two liter bottles of soft drinks, and measure engine displacement in liters, but buy most other items by the ounce.
 

Rosseforp

I think this fits, Gents
True enough. Internally a lot of American companies use the metric system since these standards are used all over the world.

However justified, a system of dual units is a pain. Everything has to be labelled using both units, signs, gauges, etc. and it's necessary to convert back and forth if you work with both units. That could be done away with, but no, the US is a special case for some reason.
Having been a machinist working in the medical device manufacturing industry for 45+ years, I feel your pain. When I first started converting programs from inches to millimeters, I ran into major opposition from senior management.

My Plant Manager literally told me that he thought machinists were too dumb to figure it out.

But I digress

I love MdC and AdP. They sit proudly on my shelf next to Proraso, Arko, WMS, MWF, TOBS Lime, TOBS Sandalwood, What the Puck Orange Sunrise, Black Label Fougere, RR Amici, TFS Ginestra di Taormina, Mike's Natural Soaps Bergamot Orange Ylang-Ylang, and Wholly Kaw La Fougere Parfaite.
I use all of them, except the TOBS Sandalwood.

I still have Wickham, PdP, CRS, and SV on my list.
I do have a Simpson PJ2 Super Badger.
Does that make me a snob?
 
I get more mileage out of a puck of Williams than any of my artisan soaps. I still enjoy both, and as long as you don't buy more than you can use in a year, nothing ever gets boring or rancid.
 
Having been a machinist working in the medical device manufacturing industry for 45+ years, I feel your pain. When I first started converting programs from inches to millimeters, I ran into major opposition from senior management.

My Plant Manager literally told me that he thought machinists were too dumb to figure it out.

But I digress

I love MdC and AdP. They sit proudly on my shelf next to Proraso, Arko, WMS, MWF, TOBS Lime, TOBS Sandalwood, What the Puck Orange Sunrise, Black Label Fougere, RR Amici, TFS Ginestra di Taormina, Mike's Natural Soaps Bergamot Orange Ylang-Ylang, and Wholly Kaw La Fougere Parfaite.
I use all of them, except the TOBS Sandalwood.

I still have Wickham, PdP, CRS, and SV on my list.
I do have a Simpson PJ2 Super Badger.
Does that make me a snob?
No! It makes you a curious consumer who appreciates the ideas and effort it takes to create an excellent product offering. For me, I appreciate that and the cajones that it takes to start a small business, and manage it. Many of the vendors that we all appreciate and patronize began their business in the garage. Now they’re shipping products all over the world. I respect that. Capitalism ROCKS!
 

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
My point exactly! Where I live it is still dark ages in many aspects of life but we try to kid ourselves we are developed country. Best performing cheapest soap I can get is Palmolive stick for 1,5€, that is 3€ for 100gr
Now why would I pay 5$ for RR What the puck and 25$ for shipping when there is chance that performance will not be the same as Palmolive? I use this soap as a measuring stick and if you expect I will shell out more than 3€/100gr then your soap must be at least as good performer as Palmolive

I hear nothing but great things about MdC but I just can't push myself to pay that much for a tub of soap. And since my best experiences were with tallow soaps I am reluctant to pay 50€ + shipping for non tallow soap

I'm with you about the shipping. I'm in Canada and finding inexpensive shipping is difficult. Both Maggard and Connaught offer a low cost international shipping option, so thats who gets most, well honestly, all of my business so far. I havent paid more than $5CAD for an order yet, I dont think.

$100CAD for a jar of MdC is a lot, no question. The upside is, apparently, exemplary performance and great scent. Its also for a 200g jar, which is a lot of soap. Not to mention its very hard and will last a long time.

Given all of that as true, the initial cost is high, but the long term cost, price per shave, could be lower that many less expensive soaps.

I know I'll buy some eventually, just not... today lol.

If you like tallow soaps, try Wickham 1912. It performs and feels just like a tallow soap, but isnt. Wickham 1912 is my #1 soap. I order it from Connaught Shaving and take advantage of their low cost international shipping option.
 
Hum? Interesting rant. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone bash lesser expensive soaps. I have seen many, MANY people go off on “artisan” soaps. I imagine there are a lot of factors as to why that is but it really stands out to me. I’ve seen people here with over a dozen expensive brushes, razors, and bowls yet I see no one up in arms about how excessive or unnecessary those are. Does anyone need more than one razor? How someone can get bent out of shape for what another does that they deem excessive is beyond me. People enjoying their MWF (or anysuch soap) doesn’t effect me.... In fact I appreciate them and value their way. Heaven forbid I live my life.
 
Samples are my rule of thumb. If I can't buy a sample, I don't care to spend money on a tub of unknown soap that I may or may not like.

This is what I do as well. I have a boatload of samples but very few full size tubs. As mentioned above, I also like to try different things and the cost of a samples is affordable to me and allows me to decide if the soap is worth the 15+ bucks for a full size version.

I also treat this like a hobby so if I find something I like, I don't mind splurging. I look at it like going to the bar with friends every once in a while - you could easily drop 40 on that so why not skip one of those sessions and buy a few soaps instead? :001_tongu

Another option that is probably better off in its own thread is ... try making it yourself. The process is not hard and in my opinion, gives you the opportunity to create something that works for you feel, scent and post shave wise.
 
In addition, wouldn’t the price of the more affordable soaps go up if I ceased to purchase my extravagant artisan soaps and became more... I don’t know ah more like yourself?
 
From a USA consumers point of view, artisan soaps at more than 20/jar won't get my business. And for me to pay that much, I really, really have to like the scent.
Samples should be sent for a very nominal fee. This is a way of enticing undecided customers, or even sweeten the pot by offering a decent coupon for a future purchase. Are you listening, artisans?
 
Samples are my rule of thumb. If I can't buy a sample, I don't care to spend money on a tub of unknown soap that I may or may not like.

This. I ALWAYS get samples of new soap whenever possible. And am I glad I do! I got some samples last week that folks here raved about - and I couldn't stand the stuff. I landed up with 5 different samples that went to the bin based on scent alone. Probably cost me somewhere around $15 total - which is a whole lot better than spending $15 to $18 per tub! I would have been out close to $100!

But I get what Samhain666 is on about - things can get ridiculous. Does anyone really need a $50 tub of soap that smells like a cathouse in North Carolina during a summer rainstorm?
 
In my experience, price and artisan bona fides haven't predicted the effectiveness of a shaving soap or cream. Some of my favorites are Nivea(in a tube), Bigelow(in a tube) & Fine(refill puck). Very inexpensive, great performers and no shelf life issues.
 
This. I ALWAYS get samples of new soap whenever possible. And am I glad I do! I got some samples last week that folks here raved about - and I couldn't stand the stuff. I landed up with 5 different samples that went to the bin based on scent alone. Probably cost me somewhere around $15 total - which is a whole lot better than spending $15 to $18 per tub! I would have been out close to $100!

But I get what Samhain666 is on about - things can get ridiculous. Does anyone really need a $50 tub of soap that smells like a cathouse in North Carolina during a summer rainstorm?
Just discovered that Conought's sells a sample of panna crema Blu. Ordered.
 
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