Arkie oil stone no good?

[Chico]

Hello gents! At the moment I try to get a good edge back on my GD and Dovo (both were done by Alfredo and they shaved like a hot knife through butter). At the moment I can shave with them, both not getting the close shaves anymore. ATG can only be done on the cheeks and neck. So...I have to finish with a DE to get real smooth. But I really like using the straights, don't want to go back to DE's.

Using the Arkie it doesn't get back to smooth shaving. I do not have the illusion that I can get it as good as it was. But the goal of getting a better shave still hasn't been reached. I use WD40 on the stone and go for X pattern. The sound is almost silent when I do the passes and am making sure I do put the spine on the stone first.
For the GD I did last evening 50 passes (up and down). Should I go for more, like 100 or 200? Or is the steel too hard from a GD? The Dovo is the same, I must say.

At the end of this month I will be able to buy a new stone again. I can choose between a Norton 4k/8k or a coti (this one is rated between 6k and 8k). Which should I choose?
I tried to find lapping film, but here in the Netherlands, it is no where to be found. And on ebay I do not know which to choose. Can you help with some advice, please?

I do understand all is also being not experienced enough.

 

[xMackx]

I would recommend getting the Norton 4k/8k as it's a great stone to learn on, and you know exactly what you are getting. Which Arkie do you have? Soft ark, hard, black, surgical black, translucent?

 

[kirk 988]

I would recommend getting the Norton 4k/8k as it's a great stone to learn on, and you know exactly what you are getting. Which Arkie do you have? Soft ark, hard, black, surgical black, translucent?

thats a good point youd at least want a true hard ark.
what if the bevel is rounded though the ark is no good to set a bevel

 

[life2short1971]

Yeah a couple hundred passes should do it. Check your progress after 100 with the HHT (hair test)

 

[Chico]

I would recommend getting the Norton 4k/8k as it's a great stone to learn on, and you know exactly what you are getting. Which Arkie do you have? Soft ark, hard, black, surgical black, translucent?

It's a hard black Arkie. I can't say if it is surgical or not. A photo won't say much, I guess, because black is black? It does have at one edge a more light transparent corner.

 

[Slash McCoy]

An Arkie is not the best choice for razor honing. A very very hard arkie is capable of leaving a shaving edge but it will cut very slowly. So slow that it is all but impossible to use it for anything but a finisher. A softer arkie won't leave a very good finished edge but at least it cuts a little faster. Basically I suggest using a soft and a medium arkie for pocketknife sharpening but using something else for razors.

Try www.thorlabs.com for film. That's who I use. 10 sheet minimum order so figure on about a half lifetime of film supply lol!

Film is quick and easy to learn, if you are only satisfied with a scary sharp edge. If you will settle for "good enough", you could go with the Norton combo. Don't bother getting a finisher until you are getting nice edges on the 8k. NO finisher can make up for not having a good edge off your 8k. NO 8k can make up for not having a good edge from the 4k. NO 4k can make up for not having a perfect bevel set on the 1k. Each step must be allowed to do its job COMPLETELY, or you are simply wasting your time progressing to the next finer stone.

Not so long ago, 8k was regarded as a finishing grit. And you can do a lot to improve the normal 8k edge, such as using lather on the stone and going a couple hundred extremely light finishing laps. The 8k edge can shave almost like a 12k edge when you have the art down.

BTW if you get the Norton combo, consider also getting the 220/1k combo for bevel setting. Setting the bevel on a 4k is extremely tedious and I guarantee you will give up before you get it done properly. Giving up too soon on setting the bevel is the most common reason for a newbie to get a less than satisfactory edge. Without a perfect bevel, you are wasting your time with finer stones. A fine stone will never give you a good edge if the previous stone did not completely fulfill its role. If you forget everything else, remember that. Without a good bevel your edge is doomed to uselessness at worst, absolute mediocrity at the very best.

 

[Chico]

Thanks Slash, I understand your point. I think that I, as many starters, just like to know, if I can buy one stone now....which one should I buy? For me this is relevant, as I started with two perfectly honed razors.

A fellow B&B member will help me out with a range set of lapping film. I do not know if I may mention his name, but am glad he can help out. This I will order tonight. And end of the month the stone with slurry stone. Do you need a slurry with a Norton 4k/8k?

 

[Slash McCoy]

No, a slurry stone is not needed, generally, with a synthetic stone. And since you are starting with a well honed edge, you can do without a bevel setter for now. So for a single rock, the 4k/8k will work. But as your skill improves you will want to add a finisher such as a C12k or a Naniwa Superstone 12k. Or since you are getting films, when you are ready to start with a finisher just go with 3u and 1u film. But I will say again... you are wasting your time with a finisher if your 8k edge isn't up to snuff.

Then again, if you are getting films you don't really need the stone in the first place. For film, the only stones you need are a coarse diamond plate for heavy steel removal and edge repair, and possibly a 1k bevel setter. You really are better off with film. The journey to a scary sharp edge is much shorter with film than with rocks. And the cost is minimal. You only need a lapping plate which can be a polished marble edge tile (not ceramic, they are never flat enough) or the sink cutout from a polished granite counter top, or other scrap from the same material, or a heavy piece of nice flat glass such as from a glass coffee table top. There are also purposed polished and calibrated flat lapping plates but the expense is unwarranted this early in your journey I think. Read the thread http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576 in its entirety and save it for reference. All of your lapping film questions should be answered there. If you follow along and do exactly as advised in this thread, you will probably get a decent shaving edge your first time out, assuming that you positively do not cut any corners whatsoever. By your third attempt you should be getting as good an edge as most professional razor honers or better.

 

[Chico]

Thanks, Slash! I know what you mean, the start must be right if you want to finish right. I will read that thread carefully. Already learned in life that short corners brings long sad endings I was thinking to use a mirror as a foundation to use the films on. Glueing it to a stable surface. I will read the thread for ideas and advice.

I must say, I didn not have had a hobby for a long time, but this is really growing into one now.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Sure you COULD use a piece of mirror but most mirrors are too flexible in my opinion. Glass about 3/8" thick would be better. Cut a piece 3" wide or a bit wider but no more than 4" wide. Make it about 12" long. Glue it to a piece of wood the same dimensions. Polish the edges so that they are slightly rounded and will not cut you or your films. I suggest holding this lapping plate loosely in your left hand and not simply laying it down on some surface. You want it to sort of float freely as you hone. It is easier to moderate and balance honing pressure that way. The honing surface and the blade will find their own alignment. That is the reason for cutting it down to size. But you don't want it too small either. One of the most important benefits of lapping film is the ability to inexpensively use a large honing surface. A big rock can cost big bucks. A big piece of film still only costs a dollar or less and it is good for about a dozen razors.

You could have a piece of glass cut for the purpose at a window and glass shop and it should only cost a few dollars. A polished marble edge tile 4" x 12" should only cost a few bucks at a builders supply. I get mine from a chain we have here, called Home Depot.

And yes it is a consuming hobby. A compulsion, really. But it is healthier than drugs or booze or gambling, I guess.