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Arkansas Translucent/Surgical Black

Question...
Is there any significant advantage or benefit to owning both these stones and using them with each other in a homing progression?
I currently have Arkansas stones in soft, medium, hard, and surgical black.
May have the opportunity to score a translucent at a decent price. Worthwhile venture?
 

David

B&B’s Champion Corn Shucker
Agree. There’s no reason to have both unless your HAD is out of control.
 

timwcic

"Look what I found"
Is the Trans a upgrade. Is your SB vintage or new, what is it dimensions? Same questions on the Trans. Both stones are fairly equal, but if the Trans is older and bigger, you could be a happier camper. Could always put one on BST to find a new home
 
If it's a deal and maybe fits in as a needed bench or hand honeing stone. But like they said , it's always nice to have two , it may or may not be better. Also I will add once you have those you will probably find a deal on a trans black as well. Seems to work that way lol.
 
I can't really tell any difference between my surgical blacks vs butterscotch translucents or black/grey translucents as far as edge is concerned. One of my SB's is the big 12"x3" that I have had for some time and it tends to be my go-to finisher over other arks and even over all my stones. It never seems to let me down. That amount of working surface and length is really nice to finish quickly.
 
I can't really tell any difference between my surgical blacks vs butterscotch translucents or black/grey translucents as far as edge is concerned. One of my SB's is the big 12"x3" that I have had for some time and it tends to be my go-to finisher over other arks and even over all my stones. It never seems to let me down. That amount of working surface and length is really nice to finish quickly.
I have a 10 x3 SB The runway, the real estate is pure luxury. And fast. I find myself reaching for this over my other arks
 
Without knowing the stones in question personally, it's impossible to say.
For me - it all boils down to the exact stones in question.

Depends on the type of Surgical black - Halls SB is not what I call a SB. Good stone, but my point of reference for that genre is something else. Some SB on auction sites aren't even in the running.

Also depends on the Translucent - today's Hard Trans Arks are not the same as those from 'back in the day'. The differences might not mean anything to anyone though. A lot depends on what someone is exposed to, how granular they get with stuff, their ability to discern nuances, etc.

What does it all matter at the end of the day? Depends on too many things to cover here.

If the choice is two stones from Dan's, his Trans or his Ultra Fine black, one or the other - I'll take the Trans.
If the choice is my SB and Dans Trans, one or the other - I'll take my SB.
If the choice is I can have both Dans Trans and my SB, I'll still take my SB.
If the choice is a 1890s Pike Translucent and my SB, I'll take both.
 

duke762

Rose to the occasion
Depends on the type of Surgical black - Halls SB is not what I call a SB. Good stone, but my point of reference for that genre is something else.

+1 I was suspicious of the one I have as soon as I saw it. Weird sparkles and tiny spots. Gives good edges but I've never gotten a stellar edge off of it.

If the choice is a 1890s Pike Translucent and my SB, I'll take both.

I seem to be drawn to vintage stones. Usually of the Norton variety. I have one Pike trans 4 x 11/2 x 7/8 and I'd love to have a bigger one. And someday I'd like to get a Dan's and butterscotch too.

It's all because I have HAD, hoarding tendencies, and Arkoholism.......

I can't really tell any difference between my surgical blacks vs butterscotch translucents or black/grey translucents as far as edge is concerned.

That is as it should be with good stones and a good user. But some stones, like my Hall's, just aren't up to snuff. A good edge but I can do better on other stones.

Bottom line....I'd score the Trans and see how you like it. If you feel it's not working out, resell it later.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Question...
Is there any significant advantage or benefit to owning both these stones and using them with each other in a homing progression?
I currently have Arkansas stones in soft, medium, hard, and surgical black.
May have the opportunity to score a translucent at a decent price. Worthwhile venture?

Worthwhile is subjective, right, so who can tell you.

I have no stone marketed as surgical black. Even comparing one translucent Ark to another is interesting. They may look a good bit different and I like that. During honing the feel may be considerably (or perhaps subtly) different; I like that, too. I don't find the edges different translucent stones give me different to a degree I can appreciate. Others with more experience with more stones may have a better appreciation of the possibilities, but you're talking about acquiring one more stone, not a bunch of translucent stones.

That said, there are significant advantages in owning and using a variety of Arkansas stones. The stones themselves have told me they enjoy the company of their own kind.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
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Either way...I frittered away my current disposable income on a new handgun. Another stone ain't gonna be in the picture. Y'all are right; most probably didn't need it.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
It is said (on the Dan's Whetstones site) that black is very slightly denser and finer than translucent. I will postulate that the difference is not even worth considering, and that source and luck of the draw are more important. Lapping and finishing are even more important. Remember that these stones do not work as slurry factories. They are micro fine files. The fineness is set by the surface treatment and the results on the steel further modified by the viscosity of the honing fluid.

Without seeing them, I see no reason to have both a trans and a SB.

I enjoy honing on nice big stones. If you showed me a randomly selected black and a randomly selected trans and said I could have my choice, I would probably just pick the biggest one.

If you have a nicely burnished surface on the stone, and a LOT of patience, you can make a pretty good finisher out of either type of stone. I don't care for them myself but only because it takes so long to max out on one. My Naniwas and lapping films are way faster. On the plus side, even a 1/2" thick Ark finisher will last basically forever.
 
Cheaper if you go through a distributor rather than buying direct from Dan's. I found this out when I ordered a set of replacement Arks for a IM313 a couple of years ago.
 
If the choice is two stones from Dan's, his Trans or his Ultra Fine black, one or the other - I'll take the Trans.
If the choice is my SB and Dans Trans, one or the other - I'll take my SB.
If the choice is I can have both Dans Trans and my SB, I'll still take my SB.
If the choice is a 1890s Pike Translucent and my SB, I'll take both.

Gamma,
I am a little surprised that you would choose Dan's translucent over his black. Dan states his black is finer than his translucent but maybe your choice is based on something else. Can you elaborate on this?

Chris
 
I spoke to a couple of the mines in the past, most of them were in agreement that a true surgical black and a translucent are functionally the same stone, in that each takes virtually the same amount of effort to cut and flatten, and from their experience that means it’s the same material, just different impurities.

The fact is, neither black color nor translucence guarantees an extremely fine Arkansas. They are generally used to classify the highest quality of the extremely fine Arkansas’s. But of course there are very coarse Washita that are completely translucent as well. Likewise there is Arkansas material that is jet black and not particularly fine.

A translucent stone is not guaranteed to be better than a Black stone and a black stone is not guaranteed to be better than a translucent stone. It all comes down to luck and quality of selection at the mine.
 
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