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Arkansas options

good day all -
I have been tempted to purchase one of the highly regarded Arkansas stones. With some comments already through the various threads, I feel I have the information needed to make a choice but happy to hear more opinions.

Currently the items I have to consider -
  • Lapping the stones - I am in a relatively temporary place and dont have much inclination to tackle a major exercise here. I understand I might not get away with not doing something in this regard.
  • Cost - I am far away from the US or Europe, down in South Africa, so rate of exchange and the cost for shipping is a killer. I used a forwarding service in the past while, but i can add another $100 dollars onto whatever I buy just to make sure I get it reliably. I will take the opportunity to get a few special books to make use of shipment. This cost can be reduced by maybe $20 if i ship only a stone, or only a couple books so its worth it to add a few. Probably stuck here too - if I want the certainty in quality and ease of prep. I could wiat for a few months for a family member visiting but I might not have the patience for that.
  • Stone classifications - i want a final finisher for now. Adding only this new variable will hopefully see me use it effectively at first and gain an appreciation for this group of stones. I read that the trans vs black for final finisher is a moot point, differences being cosmetic mostly. The trans stones are significantly more expensive too
  • Size - i also read that the laps can be a few hundred - even more than the zulu grey. Thus i believe an 8" is preferable - these are significantly more $ than a 6" though - anyone have major hassle using a 6"? maybe a 6x3 or an 8x2. I think I would prefer an 8" stone myself
  • Suppliers - I have taken on board comments about reliability in quality from varied suppliers - this also affects costs significantly (and also removes the option of vintages and aucton sites for me). With my location and forwarding, US sites are easiest for me. Does anyone have any opinions here? Some of the sharpening sites have black stones - are these not equal grade - or just take more work to prepare - or are just risky as you dont know what you may get?
So, based on the above, I see the best option would be to purchase a Dan's Black Ultra fine in an 8x3" or 8x2" stone. It is likely to come prepared to a greater extent (maybe just minor lapping needed by me) and the grade or quality of the stone is also guaranteed.
Am i missing anything to consider?

Thank you for your advice
 

Legion

Staff member
From what I hear, Dans stones are pretty flat, and finished to about 600. For a final finisher you may want to go higher, but that is just some glass and a couple of sheets of sandpaper.

This would seem like your easiest option.
 
I have bought and used a few Dan’s stones. They are very flat. The initial surface treatment is quite good, if it is too rough, just rub a knife or chisel to burnish a bit but I actually like using at about 600 grit level - too much burnishing and it will get super slow. For finisher I have a 8”x2”x1/2” black and a 6”x2”x1/2” True Hard. They measured within 0.01 for SG (both around 2.63 which is pretty pure). My view is that for razor 6”x2” is fine, I don’t think you will regret that size if you want to spend a few dollars less. I prefer the extra length more for kitchen knives than for razors. If you prefer honing in hand then a 6”x2” is actually preferable (unless you have much bigger hands than I do!). And per your comments the Translucent costs more. They don’t really seem to wear, so I don’t recommend spending money on extra thickness. Much cheaper to buy a stone holder if you only want thickness to keep your knuckles off the countertop.

I don’t count laps on a black Ark - I usually do 5 minutes edge leading and 5 minutes spine leading. Might need a touch more if it is hard steel.

Bottom line - if I had to do again (I don’t) I would get a Dan’s black 6”x2”x1/2”. I would take it over the True Hard because I sense slightly different feedback on my True Hard between the translucent and opaque sections. I don’t think it actually impacts the honing at all, and I do pick the True Hard if I decide to hone in hand, but if I had to choose one, I’d go with the black.

The hard Arks (what Dan’s calls a Hard Ark as opposed to True Hard) are much cheaper and are a good final stone for a kitchen knife or pre-finisher to set up for the True Hard when honing razors. But you can accomplish the same thing with a lot of other stones.

Other companies may offer good stones as well, but I’ve only bought from Dan’s, so I can only comment on them.
 
Thank you all -
I have had it on my mind all day now and am happy to see your recommendations on size. The change in $ to bigger stones is a big jump. I have been thinking it would be more responsible of me to spend less on a smaller stone and your recommendations have validated that for me.
 
The stones I’ve bought from Dan’s have all came with a fairly coarse texture. I bring them up to somewhere between 220# to 600#. I might bring a translucent up a little more though…
 
From what I hear, Dans stones are pretty flat, and finished to about 600. For a final finisher you may want to go higher, but that is just some glass and a couple of sheets of sandpaper.

This would seem like your easiest option.
The only stone I have from Dan's that I lapped was the primitive cut.
 
Thank you all -
I have had it on my mind all day now and am happy to see your recommendations on size. The change in $ to bigger stones is a big jump. I have been thinking it would be more responsible of me to spend less on a smaller stone and your recommendations have validated that for me.
My favorite size ark for razors is a 1.5x 4.5" *large pocket stone* from dans. I think the stone was $37 ish after shipping.
 
A 6x2 is plenty of stone to hone a razor on. Stack the stone on synthetic or diamond plate with a piece of drawer liner between them.

Arks are stone face finish dependent, so how you finish the stone will determine how it performs. Also, Arks are/can be slow cutters, so the razor must be already finished to a high level, shave ready. Pristine 8k at least, bevels fully set and no random stria reaching the edge.

If you are not getting good shaving edges from your 8k, it is doubtful that a finish Ark will improve them.

The stone must be flat, then finished. To test for flatness, mark a grid with a sharpie on the stone face and lap on a sheet of 220 with water, on a flat surface. If all the sharpie is not removed completely in less than 10 laps, the stone is not flat, and must be flattened on 60 grit loose Silicone Carbide.

Once flat you can finish one side to 600 and burnish the other for a dual grit finish stone.
 
I've only used a couple of black Arks before (and neither were from Dan's) but frankly, apart from looking cool, I find them difficult to love. They're stultifying slow, don't respond to surface conditioning in as versatile a way as translucents, and will burnish in a light breeze.

If one must buy a black Arkansas stone then my only advice would be to make sure you have a large piece of completely flat glass prepared beforehand... and then you can send the Ark back for a refund, and hone on the glass. The effect is much the same.

😈
 
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A 6x2 is plenty of stone to hone a razor on. Stack the stone on synthetic or diamond plate with a piece of drawer liner between them.

Arks are stone face finish dependent, so how you finish the stone will determine how it performs. Also, Arks are/can be slow cutters, so the razor must be already finished to a high level, shave ready. Pristine 8k at least, bevels fully set and no random stria reaching the edge.

If you are not getting good shaving edges from your 8k, it is doubtful that a finish Ark will improve them.

The stone must be flat, then finished. To test for flatness, mark a grid with a sharpie on the stone face and lap on a sheet of 220 with water, on a flat surface. If all the sharpie is not removed completely in less than 10 laps, the stone is not flat, and must be flattened on 60 grit loose Silicone Carbide.

Once flat you can finish one side to 600 and burnish the other for a dual grit finish stone.
Thank you - I have seen your advice on this elsewhere and with this commentary I am looking forward to an easy intro to using this stone
 
I've only used a couple of black arks before (and neither were from Dan's) but frankly, apart from looking cool, I find them difficult to love. They're stultifying slow, don't respond to surface conditioning in as versatile a way as translucents, and will burnish in a light breeze.

If one must buy a black Arkansas stone then my only advice would be to make sure you have a large piece of completely flat glass prepared beforehand... and then you can send the Arkansas stone back for a refund, and hone on the glass. The effect is much the same.

😈
I like this - part of me knows I don’t need a new stone but i like exploring and learning. This is even more reason to not extend myself financially and buy the bigger stone.
 
I've only used a couple of black arks before (and neither were from Dan's) but frankly, apart from looking cool, I find them difficult to love. They're stultifying slow, don't respond to surface conditioning in as versatile a way as translucents, and will burnish in a light breeze.

If one must buy a black Arkansas stone then my only advice would be to make sure you have a large piece of completely flat glass prepared beforehand... and then you can send the Arkansas stone back for a refund, and hone on the glass. The effect is much the same.

😈
Yikes bro, I might need to mail you and actual black ark next time I come across one at a bargain. The ones I have I keep roughed up at 220-400. I don't burnish them but if I do it looks like lightly polishing an india on the surface. The ones I've got from Dan and norton never will burnish with a razor or it would take years. They are pretty responsive to pressure on knives and I can get one to kick up swarf quick with half strokes. I think a lot of people "over process" arkansas stones. The beauty of them(like slate) is that they break on a semi flat plane sometimes and you just rub the halves together to get them pretty flat. When these were first becoming popular with settlers is was because they could dig one up on their path west and would have a rough cut stone that all tools work on.
 
Yikes bro, I might need to mail you and actual black ark next time I come across one at a bargain. The ones I have I keep roughed up at 220-400. I don't burnish them but if I do it looks like lightly polishing an india on the surface. The ones I've got from Dan and norton never will burnish with a razor or it would take years. They are pretty responsive to pressure on knives and I can get one to kick up swarf quick with half strokes. I think a lot of people "over process" arkansas stones. The beauty of them(like slate) is that they break on a semi flat plane sometimes and you just rub the halves together to get them pretty flat. When these were first becoming popular with settlers is was because they could dig one up on their path west and would have a rough cut stone that all tools work on.

^^^^this
 
I like this - part of me knows I don’t need a new stone but i like exploring and learning. This is even more reason to not extend myself financially and buy the bigger stone.


[Being a little less facetious and incendiary now... ;)]

I would definitely back what others have said about size, whatever you decide to go for - 6x2 is ideal for razors. It's probably actually better than 8x2, especially in the case of hard Arkansas stones where in hand honing will considerably help with the delicacy and finesse they require. So yeah - definitely don't spend a load extra on a larger stone.
 
Black Arkansas stones can produce good results when following a Naniwa 12K with a good Thuringian in between IMHO. You might use a little tomo slurry on a Black as a sub for a Thuri as well…
 
Here's my experience as a new honer.

I started off with purchasing a Soft/Hard Ark combo. Definitely not a finisher.

Then I went off to buy 6x2 Black Ark and Trans because they are relatively cheaper compared to the larger size and I didn't buy them off Dan's.

So far, my honing sessions with them have been very good. I don't think they came flat so I used some lower grit sandpaper to lap them. Took a long time.

My edges off both have been similar. Buttery smooth and easy cutting once my synthetic progression is on-point. I do 200+ laps on them with mineral oil and that's worked well so far. I also tried 50 laps couple days ago and that put a nice natural stone feel to the edge, but not as nice as 200+ laps.

I'd say 6x2 will work fine but 8 is nicer. I've had good luck with both Black/Trans Arks. Dan's is probably the best bet for vendors but I've had good stones off another vendor as well.
 
I have the Trans Ark in 2X8X1/2 and it's a fine stone. I burnished mine a lot to get a smoother finish and it works well after the 12k stone. As Marty said, you really need a finished edge before going to the Arkie. It changes the feel.

But my comment is that you mentioned the Zulu Gray. I have that stone too. And I prefer the edge off the Z.G. compared to Ark. It's all in the way you finish meaning the liquid. I like to use Balistol. Start with it then add water so that in the end I'm on mostly water but it still has the slickness of the oil and that's keeping the edge from making too much contact.

I am very happy with my Z.G. stone and I hear in the last couple of years you can't get them any longer. That's too bad. Here are both of mine, BTW...

20180221_114834.jpg


IMG_20221020_111450428.jpg
 
Yikes bro, I might need to mail you and actual black ark next time I come across one at a bargain. The ones I have I keep roughed up at 220-400. I don't burnish them but if I do it looks like lightly polishing an india on the surface. The ones I've got from Dan and norton never will burnish with a razor or it would take years. They are pretty responsive to pressure on knives and I can get one to kick up swarf quick with half strokes. I think a lot of people "over process" arkansas stones. The beauty of them(like slate) is that they break on a semi flat plane sometimes and you just rub the halves together to get them pretty flat. When these were first becoming popular with settlers is was because they could dig one up on their path west and would have a rough cut stone that all tools work on.



Pah! I have one of those old green label blacks that everybody goes giddy for, and by far the best thing about it is the spiffy Norton cardboard triangle box it comes in. It’d be out the door pdq if it wasn’t for that.

4A83139C-8E87-402E-8140-785DE5F042F3.jpeg



The big problem for me is that they burnish very quickly, and really struggle in terms of actual abrasion on modern steels above about 61-62 hrc...

And I will die on this hill! ;)
 
Lately I have been experimenting finishing Hard Blacks, (vintage Surgical Blacks) and Translucents with dual grit India stones for a dual grit finish.

All my Arks are vintage.

So, while finishing on much lower grits, 150/280-400, if the India stones themselves are finished, rubbing stones on another India or Carborundum stone to smooth the face, they can produce finishes equal to a much higher grit on Wet and Dry. Medium and Fine India similar to 600 W&D.

Arks can then be finished and re-finished, to increase aggression or polish and tailor stone performance. You can then burnish a stone face and switch stone finishes quickly and fairly easily, of course the Ark stone face must be flat, first.

The India 150 grit finish performs much different the 280-400 side, (medium or fine grit). For me both vintage Translucent and Surgical Blacks perform similarly when finished the same.

I have a vintage light Grey hard Ark with both translucent and black streaks running through it, it performs like a Translucent and/or Surgical black.

My experience is all with vintage stones, I could not comment on “Modern marketed” stones, though I have tried them, have not experimented with them.
 
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