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Arkansas Love...Let's see those Arks!

It's a carbo, sorry. Most likely a two sided in my experience... you're probably looking at the fine or medium side, with a coarse side underneath.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
It's a carbo, sorry. Most likely a two sided in my experience... you're probably looking at the fine or medium side, with a coarse side underneath.

Not to argue, but how do you know?

I know the bottom one I pictured isn't a natural stone and I explained why (besides looking at it), but what about the top stone or its box tells you it's a carbo?

Just trying to learn something here. If mine's a carbo it's not the end of the world.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
Not to argue, but how do you know?

I know the bottom one I pictured isn't a natural stone and I explained why (besides looking at it), but what about the top stone or its box tells you it's a carbo?

Just trying to learn something here. If mine's a carbo it's not the end of the world.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Color and texture combined with packaging just looks to be the lighter colored/finer grit side of that generation double sided carbo
 
You mean the hard black finishing stones, right, like the Black Hard, Surgical Hard, Translucent Hard?

The nomenclature and grading systems are nothing if not a pain, but my understanding is there are several grades of "hard" Arks, but not all are even remotely finishing stones. Here's Dan's version of it.

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I'm pretty sure you know all this, but maybe someone else won't. Personally, I find it very confusing, and I find it difficult to describe the Ark I'm using in a way I know will make sense to other guys.

To make it worse, this isn't the only system and vendors sometimes use their own or one new to me. For instance my Double Convex Ark 8x3 from Superior Shave has on the hard side a Black
Translucent
Ark.

I'm looking around for a nice Washita. There are plenty around including one which may or may not be suitable but it's sold all over the place, new, linked. Mostly I don't find any new ones. My understanding is the mine, owned by Norton, is not being actively mined at present.

Happy shaves,

Jim

that chart is decieving i have a vintage #1 washita and it is not coarse, my guesstimate is 5-8K, mine is from the pike/wahsita/behr period, i cant speak regarding modern washita. I didn't understand this stone early on, i'm very happy i did not sell it!!!!
 
that chart is decieving i have a vintage #1 washita and it is not coarse, my guesstimate is 5-8K, mine is from the pike/wahsita/behr period, i cant speak regarding modern washita. I didn't understand this stone early on, i'm very happy i did not sell it!!!!


You can’t assign a grit level, but I agree with you I’d say they can push all the way into the very bottom or just shy of finishing territory. The chart is 100% right in that Washita is also the coarsest acting and fastest cutting.

There really is no modern Washita, and Slice is right that depending who you ask there was only ever Norton Pike mine Washita. If I remember right there was a random production run in the early 2000s and that was the last of the Washita ever made. There may be more in the ground but Norton isn’t mining it anymore.
 
Many older stones (not Norton) used Ouachita as a marketing term.

Ouachita is the common Anglican spelling of the “mountain range” where the finest novaculite is mined. More of a region of origin than marketing, like the Ardennes in Ardennes Coticule.
 
I've encountered plenty of unlabeled Washita that I would have no trouble believing predated Pike/Norton. Always suspected their sources either ran dry or were bought by Norton to corner the market back when Washita was basically the undisputed best hone on earth for woodworkers.
 
I've encountered plenty of unlabeled Washita that I would have no trouble believing predated Pike/Norton. Always suspected their sources either ran dry or were bought by Norton to corner the market back when Washita was basically the undisputed best hone on earth for woodworkers.

Yeah I’ve got one that has dimensions and color far enough off Norton perfection that I’m sure it predates. It’s the single best one I’ve ever used personally, but I haven’t used many since it’s tough to score a deal without just gambling on white stones.
 
Washita's are really easy to ID in my opinion... but then again, I learned stone ID'ing on Thuringians... so most anything is easy beside them... cept maybe Yellow Lakes or some other black slate.
 
This is my washita
guessing it’s one of the good ones?

AA09D9FA-D1E7-45F2-8083-E92528967295.jpeg
 
It's a Norton label... which doubles or triples the value to start. If it says Lily White or Rosy Red on it, that basically doubles it again.
 
Washita's are really easy to ID in my opinion... but then again, I learned stone ID'ing on Thuringians... so most anything is easy beside them... cept maybe Yellow Lakes or some other black slate.

A lily white or nice pink mottled one is pretty easy to ID, but I’m a cheapskate bidding on dirty old stones over here. The best one I have I bought hoping for an old translucent... cleaned it all off and it has some crazy almost transparent pink/brown sections but overall it has to be a mottled Washita.
 

duke762

Rose to the occasion
Washita's are really easy to ID in my opinion..

What do you look for? Any tells that help identify them? I heard one guy say on another forum to look for the pepper.The black, pepper looking inclusions you often see. I don't believe that's a good indicator. I have a stack of Washita to regular hard Arks and it would be hard to nail down a distinction without an SG test. I can't identify them myself. With Arks, you are riding a wave of SG readings and it's just the luck of the draw when there are ranges within the SG readings also. It probably matters the most when some one wants a black or trans.

So a while back I was bevel setting an ancient half hollow. Heavy spine wear, wide bevels. I put it on my Pikes #1 and it just skidded around. Not the feel I was looking for. Tried another Pike, my favorite brown thing, my very pale soft/Washita that always works. No love to be found. I whipped out my little ancient (saw marks) Washita/soft with a small blue stripe and every thing came together. It said syrup with every pass. The stone held up through the whole thing without becoming run in and slowing. All stones were freshly and identically lapped.

I'll try to post pics later. No stone left behind. Heavy lifting Arks rock too.....

Moral of this story, get more Arks.
Different razor, different steel, different grind, different results.
 
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Classic Washita listed for sale as “hard Arkansas stone”. This one seems to be great- speed with pressure applied, full polished bevel with no pressure and thick fluid used.
 
It depends how clean they are. If they’re clean and a white variety, then yes looking for the pepper is good with them. You’ll find a lot of Lily whites and #1 that way. What you encounter a lot more that you don’t want to fight over are the more orange semi translucent ones. Those really don’t look like anything else. Porous stone, orange red color, looks very hard and translucent. Box (if it is in one) will be a century or older.

If they’re dirty, it’s more a process of elimination. If it’s a rectangle, 2” wide, not a carbo, India, slate, or queer creek... 90% of the time it’s a washita.
 
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i found my vintage #1 washita is also heavy/ dense,
compared to recent purchase of white hard ARK which is listed as 800 grit (ish) US, porous
so there are white arks out there not washita......

Namkcakram I like those narrow stones!!
 
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Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Vendor's photo.

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In transit. Won @ auction today.

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That a bit of strop on top of the box (on the left).

Link to product information.

Assuming this is a good Washita my Ark collection is complete.

upload_2019-6-7_12-45-39.jpeg

I'm not sure if I should attempt to clean this stone by soaking it in Simple Green and such. Any advice?

Also, do you typically lap a vintage Washita? I would assume they need lapping only if a straight edge test shows they aren't entirely flat, but I want to know more than my uninformed opinion.

Any suggestions on cleaning and restoring the little strop area on top of the box, shown in the bottom photo, on the left?

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
Vendor's photo.

proxy.php


In transit. Won @ auction today.

proxy.php


That a bit of strop on top of the box (on the left).

Link to product information.

Assuming this is a good Washita my Ark collection is complete.

View attachment 988378
I'm not sure if I should attempt to clean this stone by soaking it in Simple Green and such. Any advice?

Also, do you typically lap a vintage Washita? I would assume they need lapping only if a straight edge test shows they aren't entirely flat, but I want to know more than my uninformed opinion.

Any suggestions on cleaning and restoring the little strop area on top of the box, shown in the bottom photo, on the left?

Happy shaves,

Jim

That’s a classic woodworkers stone setup if I’ve ever seen one, so 90% chance it’s been previously used with either a mineral oil or some type of solvent up to kerosene weight and simple green will probably clean it up just fine.

Washitas go out of flat much faster than the harder Arkansas stones, but you’re still talking maybe annual reflattening in HARD daily woodworking use... it should still really be a flatten once or confirm flat and go stone for razors. For yours specifically it looks like you may want to bevel off the edges a smidge while you’re checking for flat.

As far as the leather on top the rough side out is a giveaway for it being a tool/knife use stone. You could just buy a nice piece of veg tanned leather and replace it with a smooth leather strop.

I just honed up and shaved with this one straight out of the eBay sellers packing:
B6BE4DFB-1F37-44A4-879B-2048D35FAC2A.jpeg

It looks dirty but this is after scrubbing with Dr Bronners and confirming flatness. The grey looking areas are the “pepper” mentioned above and that section of stone is noticeably faster/coarser feeling than the bottom orange streaked region. It’s a 2x6, totally unlabeled but close enough to dimensionally perfect to be a Lower grade Norton.

The one you posted is probably a step up in consistency and finishing ability than my picture, but hard to say without testing. It’ll probably be able to flatten a bevel in no time with pressure and some half strokes, and if you finish on it with no pressure X strokes you’ll probably be able to jump to your finishing arks perfectly. If you’ve never done a good natural midrange progression you’re in for a treat! If you’ve previously tried Coti to Ark, it’ll be similar just a bit different.
 
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