Are we in a Weber DLC bubble?

[o4hc]

There was (to my mind) an entertaining and interesting discussion of the value of the Weber DLC razor on B/S/T yesterday. Unfortunately, the mods thought differently and deleted the posts.

Anyway, after spending too much time trawling through the archives of the Weber Razor thread, there is a great variety of opinions as to the relative quality of the razor and the actual effect (if any) of the coating itself. On the extremes there are those espousing that sentient have never known such a smooth shave as this this space-age-polymer-coated masterpiece (i.e. best razor known to man) and those saying that the coating is effectively snake-oil coating and merely has a placebo effect on those who take pleasure in owning something many do not (i.e. only a negligible scientific difference from the current polished version).

And while I know that the market will bare what the market will bare, markets (and collector markets in particular) are often irrational. I am curious whether people think the DLC heads are worth what people are asking for them.


Are we in a DLC bubble or are they a classic razor that were just massively undervalued to begin with?

(I’m genuinely curious here with no horse in the race. Not trying to stir, but I find market values in niche consumer goods – i.e. records, books, etc - very interesting.)

 

[Gary H]

Is the DLC head the exact same as the regular polished head minus the cerakote?

 

[o4hc]

Yes, I believe so.

 

[Harry Snider]

I got one, shaved with it and traded it off. I found it was( for me) a rough shave that left patches of whiskers. I remember looking in the mirror and saying to my reflection' wow, all hype?' . I was sooo disappointed, this was supposed to be an awesome razor and it didn't even come close for me. Some others claim it is the smoothest razor they own and I wish I felt the same. That being said, I will definitely give a polished head a try some day. I also let mine go at a fair value, well below what they are going for now.

 

[MaxP]

I'll speak my opinion.

I think the DLC is hyped like a Dutch tulip.
The shave quality from the currently available polished head Weber is well documented as being highly regarded.
While the commentary about value and Manchurian brushes was entertaining, it was OT in the posters BST thread.

 

[Scott0079]

There are many "obscure" razors that command high prices. The reasons that many of them are obscure is due to low production numbers, people just whine less because most of them haven't been produced for 70+ years(Double rings, Eclipses, Toggles,Bottom Dials, Brit Aristocrats etc.)... and many of the "Holy Grail" oldies don't shave any better than a $10 superspeed, it's all about who wants what the most and has the most $$$.

 

[Snuff-Belgium]

I have a DLC, bought it secondhand from someone who could'n see what all the fuss was about either. I really love how it shaves. I'm absolutely no collector but only keep razors that shave really good (for me personally). Waiting to see a polished appear on BST to try that one out, it's very well possible that it just as good but since Weber doesn't ship to Belgium I can't buy one online :-(

It's not that I like it because it's black or made in limited quantities, it just gives me fantastic shaves, I've tried many of the 'Holy Grail" razors and I also found that (to me) they don't shave better then a superspeed and they left the house (and some of them made others very happy)

 

[hig789]

I have a dlc and I like it. I wouldn't call it a greatest razor in the world. DLC(diamond like carbon) is made for reducing friction in high wear environments and is very different from cerakoat. IMO they should have not blasted them before coating them, I think this took away the advantages of the dlc. I have a polished weber out being dlc'ed right now by a friend and it will come back with a very different look than the original weber. It will almost look like black chrome and it should be a very smooth shaver. In the Wikipedia article on dlc it says that some de blade manufactures use it on the edges to reduce friction, I would like to find some of these blades and give them a shot. DLC is very hard when applied to a hard surface, it's only as strong as the surface it has been applied to. I have owned more than a few keychain tools and knives with a dlc finish and have used a few quit hard with no ill effects to the coating. Here is the Wikipedia page on dlc it has some very cool info on it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond-like_carbon

 

[Arcadies]

I owned one and while I enjoyed it, and it gave a fantastic shave, after shaving with it almost daily for 4-5 months...it wasn't much better than my polished Weber and I wouldn't doubt the slight bit of extra smoothness I perceived was placebo effect, but who knows? I was always a bit concerned, seeing some posts regarding the coating chipping and also a few posts about rust issues and wondered if mine would ever have issues, then I saw what they were going for and decided to cash out while they were hot and just use my polished head and haven't regretted it one bit. In the end though, I think they're over hyped due to limited availability and the threat always looming that they will never make more...it starts a frenzy of crazy spending, but if it's what people want to spent their money on then more power to them...it's no worse than shelling out hundreds for a toggle, which also to me isn't worth it.

 

[wagstaff]

I have both the DLC and the Polished, and think they're both great razors. I don't know if the differences between them are really indicative of the differences between Polished and DLC in general, or only of these two. That is, another DLC might be more like my Polished than like my DLC for all I know. Research would need to be done.

Beyond that, I at first thought given the blade gap and exposure, and given that the coating vs. the polishing don't really do anything as far as "drag" if you have a slick lather (at least, theoretically I think they wouldn't), I didn't expect to notice a difference. And given that I at first rotated them too frequently, I wasn't sure anyway for a long while. After I stuck to one razor at a time for a couple of weeks, I know I like my DLC better. For me, I just don't get any weepers and it's easier to avoid irritation on the sensitive areas of my neck with the DLC. The difference is not all that subtle, it turns out, in my case. (Now some of this depends on which blade, too, but that also will take further research to be clear on).

I really like the Polished head Weber a whole lot. And I don't like that the DLC coating does wear away at certain stress points (like the threading on the stem). But the DLC razor does shave better, easier for me at least. It is not something I'd pay a whole lot more money for, though, while the Polished is still available at a good price. I do really well with some other razors, too (and yes, quite well enough).

 

[Harry Snider]

I have a dlc and I like it. I wouldn't call it a greatest razor in the world. DLC(diamond like carbon) is made for reducing friction in high wear environments and is very different from cerakoat. IMO they should have not blasted them before coating them, I think this took away the advantages of the dlc. I have a polished weber out being dlc'ed right now by a friend and it will come back with a very different look than the original weber. It will almost look like black chrome and it should be a very smooth shaver. In the Wikipedia article on dlc it says that some de blade manufactures use it on the edges to reduce friction, I would like to find some of these blades and give them a shot. DLC is very hard when applied to a hard surface, it's only as strong as the surface it has been applied to. I have owned more than a few keychain tools and knives with a dlc finish and have used a few quit hard with no ill effects to the coating. Here is the Wikipedia page on dlc it has some very cool info on it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond-like_carbon

You know we are going to have to see pics of your dlc when you get it back, right?

 

[ArNav]

The discussion yesterday was not really about the qualities of the DLC as a material but about the Weber DLC head and it's reputation and worth.
I said that Weber stopped making DLC because of the many faults that resulted in complaints, and hig789 said it was because it was too expensive. I find this argument self-contradicting, because hig789 virtually stated that DLC head is worth hundreds of dollars to many shavers.
Another guy attacked me and said he NEVER ONCE heard about any problems with rust or coating with DLC, to which I answered by giving the first link that popped on Google concerning this issue. Here it is:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/332471-Weber-DLC-Stay-Away-Rust-and-Stripped-Head

 

[RondeB]

It is too bad that we can't set up a holy grail lending program. There are lots of razors that I would love to try but are prohibitively priced or simply very hard to acquire. I understand that it won't really ever happen due to human nature but it would be nice. That way you could try it and then move on.

 

[ArNav]

I understand that it won't really ever happen due to human nature but it would be nice.

That's an interesting point. MY personal nature wouldn't allow me to ask ten times what I paid for an item just few months ago, but others are very different.

 

[Myosin]

Stainless razors are already a huge gimmick in my opinion, and I can't help but laugh when a manufacturer starts talking about the "coating" of their razors, especially when they use terms such as "diamond like coating."

People can buy whatever they want, but I just don't understand the current stainless steel and "coating" fad we're currently seeing. The placebo effect caused by SS razors must set some kind of record. I get that the handles are aesthetically pleasing, but you can buy a lot of other shaving gear for the prices some of these razors sell for. Maybe it's just the fact that I was raised to value function over flash.

 

[Battou62]

I was raised to value function over flash also. IMO the Weber falls into the function category. It is a stainless steel razor that costs about half of what you would pay for other stainless razors, and gives one of the best/effortless shaves I have ever had. There is a reason I sold all of my other razors (Merkur, Edwin Jagger, Vintage Gillettes) after shaving with a Weber. The Weber is just a solid razor with considerable heft, deep comfortable knurling, and quality construction. You won't have to worry about finish problems like you do many other razors, and you want have to worry about breaking it either. I don't buy into the DLC hype either, as there are people who say they can't tell a difference between them.

 

[Harry Snider]

The discussion yesterday was not really about the qualities of the DLC as a material but about the Weber DLC head and it's reputation and worth.
I said that Weber stopped making DLC because of the many faults that resulted in complaints, and hig789 said it was because it was too expensive. I find this argument self-contradicting, because hig789 virtually stated that DLC head is worth hundreds of dollars to many shavers.
Another guy attacked me and said he NEVER ONCE heard about any problems with rust or coating with DLC, to which I answered by giving the first link that popped on Google concerning this issue. Here it is:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/332471-Weber-DLC-Stay-Away-Rust-and-Stripped-Head

That was the OTHER concern I had when I decided to let my DLC go to trade. The threading on mine was loose. I mentioned this in the listing, as to let the new owner know. I received mine from another member without a single mention in regards to the condition of the threading. Caveat emptor.

 

[ArNav]

I had a DLC too and had the same problem with loose threads. Now I use Weber Polished and don't have any problem.

 

[mistercitizen]

I have not ever used the DLC, but I have the Polished..... among many other DE razors. That being said, I can't really imagine that applying some kind of "slick" coating to a razor head would have a very appreciable effect on the way it shaves. Not compared to the geometry of the razor head itself, the sharpness of the blade, the user's technique (blade angle/pressure), or the quality of the lather. Too many variables in my mind to say that by just applying a different coating to the same head will improve the razor's performance. I've shaved with over 50 different kinds of DE razors and I've had good and bad shaves with all of them. The bad ones usually come when the blade starts getting dull,my technique is off, or the lather is poor. I don't know, I guess I've always been a little skeptical that the Weber DLC was THAT much better than the standard Weber.... and therefore I've never felt the need to acquire one. My vote is for the placebo effect.... but I've never used one, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Ben

 

[wagstaff]

I have not ever used the DLC, but I have the Polished..... among many other DE razors. That being said, I can't really imagine that applying some kind of "slick" coating to a razor head would have a very appreciable effect on the way it shaves. Not compared to the geometry of the razor head itself, the sharpness of the blade, the user's technique (blade angle/pressure), or the quality of the lather. Too many variables in my mind to say that by just applying a different coating to the same head will improve the razor's performance. I've shaved with over 50 different kinds of DE razors and I've had good and bad shaves with all of them. The bad ones usually come when the blade starts getting dull,my technique is off, or the lather is poor. I don't know, I guess I've always been a little skeptical that the Weber DLC was THAT much better than the standard Weber.... and therefore I've never felt the need to acquire one. My vote is for the placebo effect.... but I've never used one, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Ben

That's pretty much what I thought when I got the Polished. And then after I got the DLC, I still wondered if the differences were placebo or not. At first. Until I made a point of using them each for more than a couple of consecutive shaves. At least the examples of each breed in my stable are, in fact, quite a bit different from each other.