Are there objectively bad products?

[Demolition]

The only really bad products that I've ever used were the $1.00 Assured DE razor from Dollar Tree and the Vie-Long 00159 boar brush.

Some B&B members seem to like the Assured razor, but mine fell apart within days of buying it. That is objectively bad build-quality right there.

Then, there's the Vie-Long 00159 boar brush... whoever designed it should be shot with a ball of their own feces.

As for ratio of good to bad products... It's at least 50:2 (or 25:1) with the 2 being the Assured razor and Vie-Long brush. Everything else (razors, soaps, brushes, etc.) that I've tried were completely serviceable, even if I didn't like them.

 

[deadcruiser]

There are plenty of hilariously bad straight razors out there.

 

[BigD]

The only truly bad product I have used in Lightfoot's Pine Shaving Soap. It didn't lather worth damn and ended up in the shower.

And William Marvy Mug Soap. However, I can get something out of Marvy. Not worth the hassle, but I can get something.

 

[RayClem]

With most things, whether you are talking about an individual product or products in general, quality levels seem to follow the standard bell curve of probability. That means there will be a small percentage that will be bad and a small percentage that will be exceptionally good. However, the vast majority will fall somewhere in the middle. That same pattern will be found whether you are discussing intelligence levels, body mass index, automobiles, cheeseburgers, or shaving supplies.

At least with shaving supplies, if you do your research up front, you can select products that are more likely to perform at the "exceptionally good" end of the bell curve. Forums like B&B are quite useful in providing information you can use for your research, even if much of the data is subjective.

 

[JeffJ]

In my experience very few. Reformulated Floris shaving soap. Dud blades, which is more quality control or variation. That’s about it in 10 years. The rest is mostly preference.

 

[sneefy]

"Are there objectively bad products?"

Yes. But there will still be people enthused about said objectively bad products.

Case in point: the Reliant Robin.

 

[mr_houston]

I'd have to say that Rockwell razor blades fit your criteria. They make great razors, though.

 

[LewisW]

I don't think there are any "bad" products. Some products are better than others though. However there are some shavers who have flawed techniques.

Well said.

 

[HarleyDChevrolet]

Rockwell blades. I've never bought any but tried them in 4 different Rockwell razors (R1, 6C, 6S and MT) mostly because each comes with a free tuck, and 4 different Gillette adjustables (FB, slim, Super 84 AND 109). The result each and every time was carnage. Life's too short, never again.

 

[TinyTim]

Uh oh, literally just bought this in store yesterday. Total impulse buy lol

This has not been my experience. TOBS Coconut has worked well for me

 

[cytus]

I think this is where YMMV comes in. Example:. My first razor was a Merkur 34HD. My first blade was Derby. I liked the setup and the results radically compared to carts. Fast forward and my wife picked up a razor, brush, mug for free from someone giving it away. After some searching I learned the razor was a Parker 99R. It was my first TTO razor and I thought it was pretty cool. Loaded it up with a Derby blade.... Wow, I was like this is horrible!!

Now... If that had been my first setup, I would have said Derby blades are horrible, how can anyone use them? I'm never using them again, useless product! However, I know it's not the blade and was the razor in this case. And as a result will say that the 99R is not for me but with the right blade and face it probably works for someone else.

I only come to this conclusion because parts of the setup worked in the past. I think it depends on when you try products based on your previous experience. Ultimately I think we all end up with a meh list which is a step or two above useless.

Just my $0.02.

Sent from my Vivo 8 using Tapatalk

I know what you mean, started with ej89 and derby. Did not go well, and although I love my EJ89, stopped using Derby for over a year...until I bought a Rockwell 6C, tried Derby on plate 4, and it wasn't as bad as in the EJ89.

 

[Jorocom]

I think this is where YMMV comes in. Example:. My first razor was a Merkur 34HD. My first blade was Derby. I liked the setup and the results radically compared to carts. Fast forward and my wife picked up a razor, brush, mug for free from someone giving it away. After some searching I learned the razor was a Parker 99R. It was my first TTO razor and I thought it was pretty cool. Loaded it up with a Derby blade.... Wow, I was like this is horrible!!

Now... If that had been my first setup, I would have said Derby blades are horrible, how can anyone use them? I'm never using them again, useless product! However, I know it's not the blade and was the razor in this case. And as a result will say that the 99R is not for me but with the right blade and face it probably works for someone else.

I only come to this conclusion because parts of the setup worked in the past. I think it depends on when you try products based on your previous experience. Ultimately I think we all end up with a meh list which is a step or two above useless.

Just my $0.02.

Sent from my Vivo 8 using Tapatalk

The Parker 99R was my first "real" razor, after using a Feather popular. I absolutely hated it then, and now, and always. I always get a nick, or weepers. Doesn't matter what blade. That razor is not for me.

 

[Macduff]

The only really bad products that I've ever used were the $1.00 Assured DE razor from Dollar Tree and the Vie-Long 00159 boar brush.

Some B&B members seem to like the Assured razor, but mine fell apart within days of buying it. That is objectively bad build-quality right there.

Then, there's the Vie-Long 00159 boar brush... whoever designed it should be shot with a ball of their own feces.

As for ratio of good to bad products... It's at least 50:2 (or 25:1) with the 2 being the Assured razor and Vie-Long brush. Everything else (razors, soaps, brushes, etc.) that I've tried were completely serviceable, even if I didn't like them.

I think of all the responses so far yours is the one that reflects true “objective badness.” A product that falls apart within days is bad no matter how it shaves. It may shave well, but
if it is of such poor build quality that it stops working within days it’s just junk.

 

[dfoulk]

Depending on how particular you are there are definitely bad products out there. However, most stuff you buy is at least average or better. So it's hard to find something that's truly bad.

So think of it this way. There are very few elite products, a bunch of excellent, above average and average products and very few that are truly bad.

It's not all that difficult to make something that's average to slightly above average but it's much harder to make something elite. A bad product is either a lack of evolving as others improve or a complete oversight on the maker's part when it comes to comparing their product to what's currently available.

 

[RayClem]

Depending on how particular you are there are definitely bad products out there. However, most stuff you buy is at least average or better. So it's hard to find something that's truly bad.

So think of it this way. There are very few elite products, a bunch of excellent, above average and average products and very few that are truly bad.

It's not all that difficult to make something that's average to slightly above average but it's much harder to make something elite. A bad product is either a lack of evolving as others improve or a complete oversight on the maker's part when it comes to comparing their product to what's currently available.

Some products are designed for aappearance and price is no object. Designer dresses worn my celebrities to the Academy Awards are such an example of this. As evidenced by "wardrobe malfunctions", product performance is not necessarily a prime objective of the designers.

Some products are designed to be both highly functiona;, yet aesthetics are also a concern. Some of our customer straight razors, CNC machined DE and SE razors, and customer brushes fall into this category.

Some products are designed to be minimally functional at a specific price point. If you are designing razors to be sold at Dollar Tree, Dollar Store, etc. to be sold for $1.00, minimum functionality is probably the best that can be achieved, or expected by consumers.

 

[steveclarkus]

My question is very simple.

Do you believe there are objectively bad performing products? If so, what's the good to bad ratio of those you've tried? 10 to 1? Also, can you name one or two to get the idea of what you consider a bad product, one that does not work properly or it's defective?

I'm in this hobby since 2012 and I haven't tried a product that was practically useless. I'm not talking about software that turned bad. Maybe I'm lucky and cautious to whom I give my money. I've tried products that I didn't like, but it was a matter of preference. Preference is a whole different discussion, I'm not talking about products you didn't like. This is subjective.

I feel it's very difficult to find a bad product nowadays.

Shaving is a very simple process and the simplest of products necessary to the activity are easily effective.

 

[Rehabilitated Shaver]

By objectively bad, would you include those with measurable defects? If so, then I submit my Weishi 9306 TTO. It has blade misalignment, a different blade gap on each side (due to safety bars bent at different angles), and each TTO door closes at a different height. The resulting shave is mild, yet bloody. I suppose it's usable in an emergency.

Then there is my Fatip Grande, which is a great shaver but has terrible fit and finish, with chrome flaking off the cap. But I don't consider this to be a bad product because it works as intended.

And what about Merkur razor blades? I have used them sporadically through the years with substandard results.

I agree with thosd who cite Derby Extra ax an example of badness. I can get only one shave out of each blade before the edge becomes like a butter knife.

Limited use with both, but Derby and Merkur blades were both not good for me. Astra SP and Feather are my favorites currently.

 

[TechClone]

I bought a generic shave stick from the local chemist and I just cannot get a good lather up with it. I’m tempted to call it a bad product but it may be that I’m doing something wrong. I’m leaning towards bad product though.

 

[musicman1951]

I don't think there are any name brand intrinsically bad products. I'm sure you can go on eBay and find a $3 razor that would fit the description, but someone is going to tell me they got a great $3 razor - so if you're buying stupidly cheap stuff you take your chances.

 

[emwolf]

I had several blade brands that didn't work for me, Merkur, Rockwell, Derby, Crystal and then I discovered the McKee Hone. About 30 passes each side and it's like I'm shaving with some of the best blades I've ever used.